U.S. Army kills Afghans who were speeding on bike!!!

Originally posted by Golf66


Please do some research… While your assertions about effective fire may have been true about 40 years ago; any recent research into the science of killing indicates that today’s young Soldiers are about 2-3 times as likely as those of the WWII generation to fire their weapons effectively at the enemy. The reasons are many and varied including desensitization through video games and TV, the increase in violence in society, etc., the thing that has the least impact on a Soldiers willingness to kill is the method of training and indoctrination.

By you, this is a good thing? Today's soldiers are baby psychopaths, and that makes you happy?

Originally posted by Golf66
One cannot make a bold change to a person’s moral code in 8-16 weeks of training which is why the vetting process and screening of recruits is so important. The ability to tell right from wrong is imprinted early in childhood education and development, a fact that I thought you certainly would be aware as a member of the teaching profession.

So you happily admit that your profession is about changing someone's moral code and making them able to do wrong (i.e., killing?)

Originally posted by Golf66Finally, to get this through; we don’t want psychopaths and sociopaths in the ranks – their lack of empathy/respect for and ultimately their lack of remorse for the use of necessary lethal force is the antitheses of the profession of arms.

Calling it a profession doesn't make it one. A profession is a job that requires university education. A job that requires mind-blowing, brain-washing and indoctrination is not a profession. In another thread, some lunatic shows how effective the indoctrination was in his case, by calling the inhabitants of America's current enemy countries 'rag-heads'. The first step is dehumanising the enemy. I guess that's why American TV (yes, another pop culture reference, suck it up. I am not in the US, it's all I've got) is so blatant in its depiction of anyone who's not a white man of between 20-50 as an enemy.

A recent cop show made it clear there were 3 suspects, the Arab, the British woman and the black American. To my amazement, the killer turned out to be the black American man. But in 99% of the other 10-15 cop shows shown every week in New Zealand, the villain turns out to the woman (even if she's not British ), the Arab - or hang it all, the foreigner of any sort!

Originally posted by Vicky32 By you, this is a good thing? Today's soldiers are baby psychopaths, and that makes you happy?

Wow, talk about hearing what you want to - please show me where or how in my correction to your use of outdated science indicates that I think our Soldiers are "baby psychopaths” and or that this would be a good thing. I do; however, happen to think that Soldier's overall accuracy during an engagement is a good thing.

Originally posted by Vicky32 So you happily admit that your profession is about changing someone's moral code and making them able to do wrong (i.e., killing?)

Again, seeing what you want to; one, I admitted no such thing. I stated that one's sense of right and wrong and morals is formed early and that it cannot be changed by a short time period such as basic training. I did not state that changing anyone's sense of right and wrong or their moral code was the goal of basic training or any military training whatsoever - your attempt to twist things is appalling.

Originally posted by Vicky32 Calling it a profession doesn't make it one.

1: the act of taking the vows of a religious community

2: an act of openly declaring or publicly claiming a belief, faith, or opinion

3 : an avowed religious faith

4 a : a calling requiring specialized knowledge and often long and intensive academic preparation
b : a principal calling, vocation, or employment
c : the whole body of persons engaged in a calling

Actually, according to Websters (4 b) it does...please you are a teacher, crack open the dictionary before you state your opinions as fact! What do you teach home-economics?

Originally posted by Vicky32 A profession is a job that requires university education. A job that requires mind-blowing, brain-washing and indoctrination is not a profession.

Sure, if you are twisting the "specialized knowledge" and "long academic preparation" into a university degree to make it fit your world view I guess you can be correct. Some professions do require a degree; however, not all professions - try telling a Sam Walton’s stock holders he was not a professional businessman or any other self made person. Perhaps the professional farmers, mechanic who services your vehicle, the professional salesman or even the housewife would have something to say about your assertion. Then again perhaps you are using some cultural norm from where you live; regardless it is not the standard here.

Just to educate you there is an academic subject taught at most major universities and in some High Schools referred to as Military Science.

1. the study of the causative factors and tactical principles of warfare.
2. an academic course dealing with these factors and principles.

In military history, military science had been used during the period after the Industrial Revolution as a general term to refer to all matters of military theory and technology application as a single academic discipline, including that of the deployment and employment of troops in peacetime or in battle.

Military Officers who practice the profession of arms using the art of war and the principles of military science all have university degrees in something. A good portion of that, about 4 hours a week plus sometimes 10+ hours of lab work along with a 6-8 week immersion course in the Summer is in Military Science for at least two but usually four years of their university studies. It's not even part of the arts it's a hard Science and can be used as electives in social science at most universities.

In military education, military science is often the name of the department in the education institution that administers officer candidate education. However, this education usually focuses on the officer leadership training and basic information about employment of military theories, concepts, methods and systems, and graduates are not military scientists on completion of studies, but rather junior military officers. Before we go into the tangent of Military Science being an easy course or worthless study at small or fringe colleges I suggest you do some research and you will find that ROTC (for one of the services) is offered at many of not all of the Nation's top colleges.

Here America's Best Colleges - Forbes you can see that the actual service academies for as you contend the non-professional indoctrination of Soldiers are rated number four (United States Military Academy) and eleven (United States Air Force Academy) respectively. USMA is rated over MIT...yet you contend that the profession of arms doesn't exist...what exactly do you think they teach at the academies? Here is a link to the rest of the article about the ranking of colleges Rankings Explained.

In conjunction with Dr. Richard Vedder, an economist at Ohio University, and the Center for College Affordability and Productivity, Forbes.com inaugurates its first ranking of America's Best Colleges, an annual list. In this report, the CCAP ranks 569 undergraduate institutions based on the quality of the education they provide, and how much their students achieve.

Interesting that all the service acadamies are on this list of the best schools - the sole purpose of each is to produce professional military officers...for a profession you contend doesn't exist.

It is important to remember that if a school appears on this list at all, that indicates it meets a certain level of quality. In other words, the Milwaukee School of Engineering (569th) is by no means the worst school in the nation. According to the U.S. Department of Education, there are more than 4,000 college campuses in the U.S. The CCAP ranks only the top 15% or so of all undergraduate institutions.

Then moving on to the enlisted Soldier in case you go with the, "Well the officers might be professionals but the Soldiers are surely not angle." if you look at the acceptance of military education at the college level for transfer credit almost all training is counted toward something even basic training is worth some college level credits. Is that because it's worthless indoctrination and training? I doubt it...it's because the instruction is professional and thorough and the skills learned are desirable by colleges and future employers alike.

A successful term of service in the US, be it at the officer or enlisted level, is seen as a good thing to most employers who can be rest assured in the professionalism and drive of the potential employee.

I am clearly not going to change your opinion as you are set in your belief that there is no such thing as a profession of arms so I'm not going to waste more time with you.

Beliefs and opinions are one thing but you are stating them as if they are fact, which I find unconscionable.

I don't believe that everyone should be a citizen with voting rights just because of birth; citizenship should be earned through military service; however, my belief does not make it so.

It's shocking that some people Without knowing the context or background of this video,are outright accusing US troops of going around and gunning people down for the heck of it. It's just begging for some leftist or anti-American people to make lots of uninformed claims.
This video is from 2009. It's of 1/17 INF of 5th SBCT, I don't remember what company,I'm thinking bravo or charlie.
This video was a presence patrol in the Arghandab river valley,( it was NOT an ambush). The lead element accidentally ran into the Taliban trying to exit the area. The TB motor cycle was engaged because it came too close to the patrol and nearly ran into the squad leader
The biker would have only had two choices, stop and surrender or drive forward and get killed. It was a narrow road, so the chances of them turning around were virtually zero, but the squad leader tried to surprise them stepped forward out of his cover to engage the biker, but the driver drove toward him. If the squad had permission to engage these guys, why come out of your cover? Just dump your rounds on them without leaving your cover and concealment and then search their bodies-a textbook ambush.
Do not ask me how I know.

Originally posted by Golf66

Actually, according to Websters (4 b) it does...please you are a teacher, crack open the dictionary before you state your opinions as fact! What do you teach home-economics?

I teach the English language! Therefore I blench at the lack of English language skills displayed on ATS, although one guy's dyslexic and two others have English as a second language, so they get a pass. Most Americans don't, because they don't need to be so ignorant, they just choose to be.

Originally posted by Golf66Sure, if you are twisting the "specialized knowledge" and "long academic preparation" into a university degree to make it fit your world view I guess you can be correct. Some professions do require a degree; however, not all professions - try telling a Sam Walton’s stock holders he was not a professional businessman or any other self made person. Perhaps the professional farmers, mechanic who services your vehicle, the professional salesman or even the housewife would have something to say about your assertion. Then again perhaps you are using some cultural norm from where you live; regardless it is not the standard here.
[quote/]
My mother would be laughing til she threw up in her mouth about the above paragraph! It was from her, and not an American dictionary, that I learned my definition of "profession". Merchants (businessmen) are not professionals. Mechanics (my father was one) are not professionals, they are skilled tradespeople. NB, in New Zealand, women can be mechanics.) Salesmen (my late brother was one) are not professionals, and he would have been the first to agree.

Originally posted by Golf66Just to educate you there is an academic subject taught at most major universities and in some High Schools referred to as Military Science.

1. the study of the causative factors and tactical principles of warfare.
2. an academic course dealing with these factors and principles.

Sorry, that's completely insane! We have a saying here "only in America"... It makes me imagine a University degree course about the best way of committing the perfect murder. That in US universities, there are KAOS courses doesn't make it right! (KAOS, a game here, is Killing as an organised sport.)

Originally posted by Golf66I don't believe that everyone should be a citizen with voting rights just because of birth; citizenship should be earned through military service; however, my belief does not make it so.

Of course that's what you believe! I ought to have predicted that. Wat a psychopathic idea. So no disabled people, no women, and no pacifists could ever be citizens by you. If you've ever seen Verhoeven's satirical film of Heinlein's hateful Starship Troopers you'd have a pretty good idea what that kind of a society looks like. But I bet you didn't even get that Verhoeven was taking the piss did you?

well, lets look at this from a Muslim mans point of view ,i almost posted this video my self , but i decided not too , i think what happend here is very sad , their is a loss of life here for no good reason, judging by the actions of the solders it looks as if he fired out of fear , that i can understand indeed , but then after the whole thing was over he wanted to see his kill? this makes me sick , life is taken for granted here in this situation and its sad , but you guys must look at the big picture , this life would have never been taken if we were not their in the first place , the solders are doing their jobs ,and the mujahadeen are doing ttheirs as well , as much as i would like to put full blame on the soldier , i jusr know i cant , because it was not him who sent a lion into a rabbits cage , but the sad part about this , is that another brother , father , son, will take the place of the fallen brother , and more lives will be lost , and more tears will shed

reply to post by deltaboy


If you watch the video with the actual audio you will know that the speeders on motorcycle had an AK47 and they raised it up to fire as soon as they saw the soldiers. The soldiers beat them to the trigger and thank allah they did.

This was a righteous kill.


don't want to play with the big boys stay indoors.

Originally posted by i am just saying
reply to post by deltaboy

 

If you watch the video with the actual audio you will know that the speeders on motorcycle had an AK47 and they raised it up to fire as soon as they saw the soldiers. The soldiers beat them to the trigger and thank allah they did.

This was a righteous kill.

don't want to play with the big boys stay indoors.

Righteous kill. What an oxymoron!
Free dictionary

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
I love watching IEDs rip apart a m1tank and a hummer with the crew ripped to shreds inside as well. See how silly your comment is? Those folks are not terrorists, they are soldiers fighting for their country. If you were in the revolutionary war in 1776 as an American, you would be labeled a terrorist to.

Right. They're freedom fighters, right? And they are striking back against Western infidels by murdering women and children, paying kids $5 to empty a mag from an AK at a US FOB just to draw fire, and to use children as human shields.

Yep, keep on believing the BS lie about "freedom fighters"

Originally posted by Vicky32I teach the English language! Therefore I blench at the lack of English language skills displayed on ATS, although one guy's dyslexic and two others have English as a second language, so they get a pass. Most Americans don't, because they don't need to be so ignorant, they just choose to be.

If you teach English and are not aware that there are variations of the definition and use of words in the different countries that speak it - I feel for your students.

Originally posted by Vicky32My mother would be laughing til she threw up in her mouth about the above paragraph! It was from her, and not an American dictionary, that I learned my definition of "profession". Merchants (businessmen) are not professionals. Mechanics (my father was one) are not professionals, they are skilled tradespeople. NB, in New Zealand, women can be mechanics.) Salesmen (my late brother was one) are not professionals, and he would have been the first to agree.

I am interested in which dictionary your mother authored was it Oxford or Cambridge; they both have similar definitions to the one in the American version?

Originally posted by Vicky32Sorry, that's completely insane! We have a saying here "only in America"... It makes me imagine a University degree course about the best way of committing the perfect murder.

Only in America? Perhaps you should learn the Google search function - look up military science courses taught at your schools in New Zealand and any other nation for that matter. Only in American - indeed!

Originally posted by Vicky32Of course that's what you believe! I ought to have predicted that. Wat a psychopathic idea. So no disabled people, no women, and no pacifists could ever be citizens by you. If you've ever seen Verhoeven's satirical film of Heinlein's hateful Starship Troopers you'd have a pretty good idea what that kind of a society looks like. But I bet you didn't even get that Verhoeven was taking the piss did you?

LoL - While I was using hyperbole to make a point I have to comment that I enjoyed Starship Troopers very much. I mean who doesn’t like a good war story? Never saw the movie you mentioned, perhaps I will look it up. Sounds interesting.

Just for your edification in today's society women can be members of the profession of arms and there will be plenty of disabled veterans as well... Military Service does not have to involve killing BTW so others could earn their citizenship through serving in support branches such as medical, etc.

I would include, if such a restriction could be imposed, a category of military service along the lines of a humanitarian assistance unit so that we didn't have to use those trained in combat/combat support to pass out food and build infrastructure. While those type missions are essential in the projection of a cohesive foreign policy projection it is a waste to use real Soldiers to execute it.

As for pacifists; anyone who will not fight for their beliefs probably shouldn't have the ability to vote. How do you propose to enforce pacifism, which is perhaps the most antithetical set of beliefs to human nature as it gets?

Humans are competitive and resources are limited - always have been always will be...

It's like the story of the scorpion and the frog - just embrace who you are!

What happens to peaceful, pacifist and weak societies? They tend to die at the hands of those who are not… It’s not a very successful strategy for survival of a species.

reply to post by deltaboy


I think one guy said something about that mother#er blowing up on him