Chevrolet Volt / Opel Ampera is my/OUR future car ?? yes or no ??

what is your opinion please about this fantastic super car ? the future is in OUR hands, no ?
American car, European car : let us support OUR economy !!
I find this super important but the threads always are fading away in the " recent posts " section ...... and we forget about them while they are very important anyway ...
so I push them alive again, may I ??

www.abovetopsecret.com...
please answer into the other thread maybe .......
peace and horsepower.

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


OH my lord I hope not. I will not give up my STI and BMW for a freaking Chevy Volt EVER!!!!

the volt is a joke. our power grid is stressed enough, you are still burning carbon fuels to get power for the volt... it doesnt even get good gas mileage past the extended range and doesn't go very far anyways, especially in cold climates... its not much cheaper at all to run off the electricity anyway.. its ugly as hell.. the heater doesnt work well.. its as expensive as a low end corvette..

do i have to go on? the chevy volt will FLOP.

My husband say the volt is a great car and one Huge selling point is that you can take it on vacation!! during your regular day it uses 100% electricity and when you travel the little bit of gas you use is to charge your electric battery, very good for the environment and great for the pocket book. my husband say go to Motor Trend and read the review. We give the Volt a

Originally posted by Chrisfishenstein
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

OH my lord I hope not. I will not give up my STI and BMW for a freaking Chevy Volt EVER!!!!

understand, ok that is your opinion, had BMW and did drive Porsche 911 CarreraS4, but I think you never had a electric car into your hands ( I also did not except I had experience with the electric golf car of my darling ..... 15 years ago ... ) but anyway do you know they have full power from zero to ???? do you realise , FROM ZERO all horsepower is available ? why do you think Porsche will have a electric hybrid car ?
editorial.autos.msn.com...
future is there, I am sure !

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


Hey, if they make a car as fast as my STI or M3, I will buy electric. I love my fast cars and it would take a great electric car to pull me away. (Or gas for like $10 a gallon or something like that)

My bad about not thinking about other car manufacturers. I was only thinking Chevy Volt in my mind

reply to post by FalselyFlagged


look at the European model, the Opel Ampera ! much better looking !!

I have a hybrid right now and I'd like to replace it with a rechargeable hybrid.

I think that the base price on the volt is too high. Even with the rebate, it's out of the price range for most people.

If they can get the price down to about $25000 and also have the rebate, then I'd jump on it.

reply to post by FalselyFlagged

maybe the power grid in USA is too old for the future of our children ... how are your Three Mile Island reactors anyway ?
in Europ we are a bit more cool .... anyway, peace man !!

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


yes, I agree, you cannot compare the Volt with a super gasoline car like BMW or AMG, but we speak about
" normal " daddy cars, not about super hero or competition racing bombs that only can drive 100 miles without them exploding their engines !!!!! lol

Originally posted by Wildbob77
I have a hybrid right now and I'd like to replace it with a rechargeable hybrid.

I think that the base price on the volt is too high. Even with the rebate, it's out of the price range for most people.

If they can get the price down to about $25000 and also have the rebate, then I'd jump on it.

I agree with you, but all new is expensive ... look at Ipad 2 .... balckberry etc... we have to wait or to be precursors ?? good question no ?

Actually the European power grid is going to be in just as much trouble shortly especially if they kill nuclear like it's looking like they're going to!

The chevy volt is not impressive at all... For my money IF I COULD GET ONE I'd take a Loremo or an aptera (the Loremo will not be offered in the US but it uses a small turbo diesel to get sporty performance while still getting way higher miles per gallon than a prius or volt) The Aptera ... well it will never be approved for sale outside of california but 0 to 60 in under ten seconds and 266 miles per gallon in diesel hybrid configuration!

The reality is things like the volt and the prius are more BUSINESS AS USUAL! Rather than actually going with things they know that work (like reduced drag coefficients and ruthless weight saving measures which contrary to the american press and places like motor trend DOES NOT mean they are LESS SAFE)

On top of that as it has been stated by others the Power grids of the world are overstressed as it is with rolling blackouts during peak demand hours soon to be a fixture of the first world because of stupid policies that have basically halted power plant builds.

Beyond that you get into the bloatware these vehicles represent... even honda knuckled under and discontinued it's AMAZING original model Insight for the abomination of it's replacement!

All of this while if you REALLY want to be ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY you would buy a Jetta or golf TDI motor... these engines especially when coupled with the new low sulfur diesels can be driven in a manner that will get you better REAL mileage than a prius at a fraction of the cost. Not only that but their motors are relatively maintenance free, the cars are DESIGNED TO LAST (versus the prius which is a 5 years then sell it for scrap or spend 5 digits to replace it's battery packs... oh and how good do you think battery manufacturing and disposal are for the environment?) Compare this to a Jetta TDI which can last 400 to 750 THOUSAND miles before needing an engine rebuild!! Not only that but the cars get their mileage by being light and efficient rather than through gimmicky complex failure prone auxiliary power packs and etc.

In closing: The REAL cars of the future will require us to first beat Department of Transportation and other regulatory bodies into submission and then buy componentry and put our efficient and safe vehicles together ourselves utilizing open source technology and crowd sourcing. Until then the best you can hope for is a jetta or volkswagen golf with it's clean efficient and reliable TDI diesel powerpack.

Originally posted by roguetechie
Actually the European power grid is going to be in just as much trouble shortly especially if they kill nuclear like it's looking like they're going to!

The chevy volt is not impressive at all... For my money IF I COULD GET ONE I'd take a Loremo or an aptera (the Loremo will not be offered in the US but it uses a small turbo diesel to get sporty performance while still getting way higher miles per gallon than a prius or volt) The Aptera ... well it will never be approved for sale outside of california but 0 to 60 in under ten seconds and 266 miles per gallon in diesel hybrid configuration!

The reality is things like the volt and the prius are more BUSINESS AS USUAL! Rather than actually going with things they know that work (like reduced drag coefficients and ruthless weight saving measures which contrary to the american press and places like motor trend DOES NOT mean they are LESS SAFE)

On top of that as it has been stated by others the Power grids of the world are overstressed as it is with rolling blackouts during peak demand hours soon to be a fixture of the first world because of stupid policies that have basically halted power plant builds.

Beyond that you get into the bloatware these vehicles represent... even honda knuckled under and discontinued it's AMAZING original model Insight for the abomination of it's replacement!

All of this while if you REALLY want to be ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY you would buy a Jetta or golf TDI motor... these engines especially when coupled with the new low sulfur diesels can be driven in a manner that will get you better REAL mileage than a prius at a fraction of the cost. Not only that but their motors are relatively maintenance free, the cars are DESIGNED TO LAST (versus the prius which is a 5 years then sell it for scrap or spend 5 digits to replace it's battery packs... oh and how good do you think battery manufacturing and disposal are for the environment?) Compare this to a Jetta TDI which can last 400 to 750 THOUSAND miles before needing an engine rebuild!! Not only that but the cars get their mileage by being light and efficient rather than through gimmicky complex failure prone auxiliary power packs and etc.

In closing: The REAL cars of the future will require us to first beat Department of Transportation and other regulatory bodies into submission and then buy componentry and put our efficient and safe vehicles together ourselves utilizing open source technology and crowd sourcing. Until then the best you can hope for is a jetta or volkswagen golf with it's clean efficient and reliable TDI diesel powerpack.

right, ok, but with diesel you have the microscopic particles in the air that make big pollution, except if you have a Mercedes with Bluetec cleaning Adblue ..... ok, but with electric power you always have ALL horsepower from zero to ???? full power from zero to .... nobody can have that otherwise !! ok ?
that is the real POWER !!

The reality though is that diesel and gasoline just plain have more POTENTIAL ENERGY per kilogram or cubic centimeter than batteries.

Beyond that with modern pollution controls ... the emissions are basically negligible and beyond that burning diesel with strict automotive pollution controls (well in the US anyway in europe diesel is more popular because they don't require all the pollution control equipment) is less polluting than the COAL POWER PLANTS being used to generate your electricity.

I understand you are excited but the REALITY is (and this has been proven by several studies) that a Jetta TDI or golf TDI are MORE efficient and LESS detrimental to the environment than a prius or chevy volt. This comes down to two things:

1. MASS: the prius is NOT LIGHT neither is the volt ... put simply there is more of EVERYTHING metal plastic etc that goes into building a prius than a jetta this leads to a higher base weight when loaded and fully fueled. And this weight means you need MORE POWER to get the car moving and keep it moving... but to add more power you need more batteries but the batteries add more weight and you need more power again.... in a never ending cycle!

2. Batteries: To put it bluntly no matter what the happy friendly commercials say there are NO BUNNIES hopping around the toyota factory and nesting in with old battery packs! Simply put there is NO ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY WAY TO MANUFACTURE BATTERIES.... Period exclamation point end of story. It just can't be done they use hazardous chemicals and rare metals that require some fairly deadly and toxic substances to produce.
That's not even getting into disposal after the fact.

On a side note: I have driven a prius and I have driven a jetta TDI... the prius... well it drives like I'd imagine it would feel like to ride a PREGNANT YAK. It's about as fun as a root canal to drive. Contrast this with the Jetta which is pure bred german engineering and sheer driving PLEASURE PERSONIFIED.

Now when I can have a car that is FUN TO DRIVE, Light, Durable, low maintenance, BETTER MILEAGE, better 0 to 60 AND 60 to 0 (aka braking which is important in my mind. The jetta can stop quicker due to sheer physics alone ie. IT HAS LESS MASS) that will last ten or more years with no major maintenance or parts replacement.

OR I can have a Heavy not fun to drive failure prone complex UGLY Slow hard to get up to speed Hard to slow down hard to maneuver EXPENSIVE maintenance intensive Failure prone but Politically correct while being economically and mechanically STUPID Prius...

Gee which one should I choose? To my mind it's a hands down no question about it situation. If you want to be politically correct, have money to burn on parts downtime more fuel and don't care about driving experience be my guest and get a prius... .I'll take a jetta though thanks.
2.

reply to post by roguetechie


please do not compare a Prius to a Opel ( Chevrolet ) Ampera ( Volt ) .....
nothing the same ...
ok, your Golf is really good, no problem you know !! I would not dislike to have one !
But Ampera is also fantastic - did you look at it ?
www.opel-ampera.com...
here we speak about alternatives to gasoline/diesel 1960 engines, the Ampera is one of them alternatives ....

My point is we should not settle for something is not as good as what we already have!

Right now the products they are giving us... they're nothing special.

Look at hydraulic hybrids or compressed air hybrids the papp plasma expansion motor...

There's literally DOZENS maybe hundreds of alternatives out there that are better than what we're being offered!

Robert Buckminster Fuller built a 13 passenger or three quarter ton van in the first part of the 20th century that is quite frankly more impressive than anything the big auto makers will sell to us now. His dymaxion car especially if you redid it with modern technology would be... (well basically a larger version of the aptera) but they'd be affordable efficient and fun to drive...

Call me an idealist but I am VERY frustrated with how screwed we get... Technology is being artificially held back while those in control wring EVERY DAMN PENNY out of each advancement before letting one more make it to market and starting the cycle all over again! I'm tired of it!

I'm tired of Big corporations bribing and influencing whoever they have to to get governments to intervene to stop technologies that threaten their market share from being ALLOWED to be sold! Yes this happens .... there are myriads of government agencies like the consumer safety products something the department of energy department of transportation the US patent office and more ALL of which can put roadblocks in the way of a new product or technology that either bankrupts the inventor, sours their investors, or hound them out of business using tactics that would be called harassment if anyone but the government did it.

Look at Dragon Skin if you think it doesn't happen! I'm not saying that Pinnacle armor (their parent company) or the product are perfect but when you look into how Point blank armor (the makers of the interceptor vest) went so far as to exert influence to get dragon skin's NIJ certification revoked to keep the military from being able to stop buying their many times subpar product for something better!

Do not ever let people tell you that inventions and technologies are not suppressed! It happens all the time...
There is a quote out there from someone that goes something like this "If Henry Ford invented the model t now he would be driven into bankruptcy or insanity when congress was debating whether it should be allowed to come to market, because of the jobs it will COST THE BUGGY WHIP INDUSTRY"

We now call this suppression economic planning and say it's for the good of a stable economy...

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


Our Super Car of the Future?

God I hope not. Its wayyy too expensive and the batteries cost as much as half the car new - and you have to replace them every 8 years !!!

A good idea.. but BAD BAD technology. It will never take off until they can solve these problems, which won't happen any time soon. They use these batteries in Electric Bikes. I have one.

The best type out there ( which the Volt does not use - they use a lesser type of battery) is called LifePo4 - A lithium iron phosphate battery - and they aren't even produced in the USA. They come from China and are Very costly - and China has the cheapest prices because they have the most Lithium ! If they tried to produce these in the USA it would cost 10 times as much!

reply to post by roguetechie


I see how you feel, I can agree with your vision ! but future will always be more hopefull .....
I will look at all the information you did put here on your reply, looks intresting ....
so, maybe later I will respond - meanwhile

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

Our Super Car of the Future?

God I hope not. Its wayyy too expensive and the batteries cost as much as half the car new - and you have to replace them every 8 years !!!

A good idea.. but BAD BAD technology. It will never take off until they can solve these problems, which won't happen any time soon. They use these batteries in Electric Bikes. I have one.

The best type out there ( which the Volt does not use - they use a lesser type of battery) is called LifePo4 - A lithium iron phosphate battery - and they aren't even produced in the USA. They come from China and are Very costly - and China has the cheapest prices because they have the most Lithium ! If they tried to produce these in the USA it would cost 10 times as much!

nice to hear about those batteries .... because that is the most important thing !!! I will look after it and see what you know about it I said it in the other thread : the batteries are the problem !!
well, why is USA not at the China level of scientific research ?? because USA is maybe at the same level but only for the secret arms, the secret research, the one for the parallel government but not for the US society and its citizens !!! shame !!! never heard about secret funding ?

reply to post by Sunlionspirit


I am not at all impressed with the opel... have you looked into the Loremo? that to me is an AMAZING vehicle that I would LOVE to own! It's also much cheaper than the opel or the volt. (maybe as much as 50% cheaper) It gets BETTER mileage has better acceleration.... and would be MUCH MUCH better for the environment (weighs less than HALF of what the opel or the volt weigh).

I am very active in working to develop various technologies and what I see from big business honestly saddens me. With the resources they have they could do AMAZING THINGS.... The Volt and the Opel, they are not amazing, they're not even that great for what they are! They could have been done better lighter faster cheaper and more environmentally friendly by a HUGE amount!

I don't feel like we are going to get the results we want by accepting things like the volt and the prius and the opel rather than holding out and FORCING them to give us something TRULY GOOD!!!

We must ALWAYS REMEMBER that every dollar we spend is a VOTE! Every time you spend money on something like the prius or volt or opel you are saying it's GOOD ENOUGH and that if they keep building them we will keep buying them! When it comes to business the ONLY WAY to get real change is to be UNWILLING TO ACCEPT anything that isn't good enough. As soon as you buy something you are telling them they don't have to do ANY BETTER THAN THAT

This is why I campaign so hard against things like the volt and point out things like the LOREMO and the APTERA! There is plenty of proof out there that they can DO MUCH BETTER. Especially when you consider the amount of resources they have at their disposal compared to the people BUILDING BETTER STUFF IN THEIR GARAGES AND BARNS!