Dude,
This page is great! My own research on Fremasonry/Illuminati points to Pike. I have not seen the three ww's before. The only question I couldn't get an answer for was, What side of the fence this guy and freemasonry was on?

Albert Pike has a second claim to fame.

As a civil war general ( Confederate, naturally ) he directed one of his officers to rob Yankee banks of their gold and silver, to fund the losing sides war effort.

Captain Jesse James did just that, even after the war ended.

Originally posted by duncanidaho
Dude,
This page is great! My own research on Fremasonry/Illuminati points to Pike. I have not seen the three ww's before. The only question I couldn't get an answer for was, What side of the fence this guy and freemasonry was on?

I think Freemasonry generally stays on the fence, in that they don't take a position on religion or politics. From what I have learned, I think Pike was a little more on the conservative side, but admittedly my research on Pike is not very extensive, to say the least. I intend to learn alot more, but one can only take in so much information at once.

I do know that his book Morals and Dogma recieves both great praise and great criticism, depending on who you ask, and seems to be a favorite for the anti-masonic community to pick apart. Alot of people claim that his book reveals the "true nature of Freemasonry" by "exposing" the "fact" that the Freemasons are Luciferian under the surface, but it is argued that it is all taken out of context. I have not read the book, so I can't tell you for sure, but I've read alot of threads and info on other websites pertaining to it. I shall be most interested to read it when the time comes.

He also was a Mason and he was Soveriegn Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction for a long time, where he re-vamped many of their rituals. There are many others on this board, though, that know alot more about this subject than I do.

On a side note - I have heard mention of him being involved in some way with the KKK but I don't have any resources for that info. Perhaps someone else would be so good as to confirm or refute this.



[edit on 7/23/04 by The Axeman]

The above document is a forgery, and was not written by Pike. It is also false that Pike gave any orders to rob "Yankee banks", or any other banks. Pike served as a Brigadier General in the Confederate Army for a short time, but resigned his post before the war ended in protest of the Confederacy breaking its treaties with the Indians. As for Axeman's question: there is no evidence that Pike was involved in the KKK in any way, shape, or form.

The real story of Pike is a fascinating one. He was an Arkanasas attorney, who had served as a Captain in the US Army in the Mexican War (where he met and befriended Robert E. Lee). He was also a school teacher, violinist, linguist, philosopher, and prolific poet. He was the first English-speaking scholar to translate a complete version of the Hindu Upanishads into English.
He became a Mason in 1850, and was elected Worshipful Master of Magnolia Lodge No. 60 in Little Rock in 1854. He joined the York Rite in 1851, and was a founding member of the Grand Encampment of Knights Templar of the United States.

He joined the Scottish Rite in 1853; almost immediately, he was commissioned by the Supreme Council to re-write the Scottish Rite Degree Rituals, finally completed in 1860. Pike had long been a student of mysticism and Kabbalah, and incorporated much of this theosophy in his rituals.

He was elected to membership in the Supreme Council 33° in 1858, and was elected Grand Commander the following year.

After the Civil War, he moved to Washington to establish his law practice, where he often argued before the U.S. Supreme Court. He continued writing poetry, publishing several volumes. He also wrote a 7 volume history of Arkansas law, as well as a score of books on philosophy and Freemasonry. He was also a member of the Whig Party, and published many Whig theoretical booklets.

His most important Masonic book "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry" contains his lectures for the revised Scottish Rite rituals.

Brother Pike passed to his reward in 1891, leaving a substantial literary legacy.

Fiat Lvx.

I did not know he was from Arkansas. Represent!

ML, do you know where the passage posted above came from? It is interesting in itself.

[edit on 7/23/04 by The Axeman]

Gosh, I love this... every now and then someone trots out this hoax and posts it as if it were real, and now thoroughly discredited. This is a quote from the infamous "Mazzini Letter" of 1871.

The fact that it is a hoax is explanation enough, and the fact that this quote only appears on the web pages of conspiracy buffs and masonic critics is ALSO, ipso facto proof that it is without value.

Its kind of funny, really, when masonic critics don't do their research and use fake materials to criticize... sort of makes their position look as morally, intellectually and spiritually bankrupt as it really is...

Originally posted by The Axeman
ML, do you know where the passage posted above came from? It is interesting in itself.

It was probably written by a Jesuit, or other militant anti-Masonic attempting to propagate Catholic supremacy. It is based on the so-called "Pike/Lucifer hoax" which was invented by the French anti-Masonic author Leo Taxil.
Although Legion left it out in his post, the letter was supposedly written by Pike to Giuseppe Mazzini, which hints that the forgery was carried out by a Catholic so that both Pike and Mazzini could be simultaneously slandered.

For those not familiar with Mazzini, he is to Italy what Thomas Jefferson is to the US. He formed a revolutionary pro-democracy movement called Young Italy which demanded freedom of speech, of religion, the right to property, and separation of church and state. He was also a Freemason and a Deist.
Mazzini's Young Italy never was able to complete a liberal revolution, but one of his followers did. This was Giuseppe Garibaldi, who was also a Mason. Garibaldi's group was called the Red Shirts, and it was this army that invaded the Papal States. Garibaldi then handed over the land to the peasants, and restricted the Church's property to Vatican City. Garibaldi succeeded in uniting Italy, earning him the nickname "the George Washington of Italy".

Because Mazzini and Garibaldi were hostile to Church corruption, and because they were both Freemasons, they were often maligned by the Church faithful, and this Pike letter hoax is only one of many examples.

Because the letter mentions the Communist Revolution in Russia, it is obvious that it was written after 1917, long after Pike's death. Anyone familiar with the history of the Russian Revolution knows that any claim that such a revolution could be planned that far in advance is made by someone completely ignorant of history and sociology.
The Communist Party itself did not expect to be able to seize power, and for a time went along with Kerensky's liberal government. (Contrary to the letter's claim, it was the liberals who overthrew the Czar in February 1917, not the Communists. The Communists seized power in October because the liberals made some very bad decisions which isolated them from the populace).

Also, this writer who claims to be Pike uses words like "Nazism" and "Fascism", which were terms not yet even invented when Pike died.

Therefore, although we do not know who exactly wrote the Pike forgery, we do know that it someone with no clear understanding of history.

Fiat Lvx.



[edit on 23-7-2004 by Masonic Light]

Good Lord, ML... you are a mo-chine! Has anyone stumped you yet?

See, I am tempted to read it, but at the same time, I have been told that I shouldn't read anything too specific as far as rituals and all that goes. Now, if I was looking for something to sling mud with, as some people are, then yes, I would probably read it now and hack it to pieces to try to make it say something it doesn't. However, as I am interested in becoming a Mason and in turn, joining the Scottish Rite, I don't want to "spoil the surprise" so to speak (MrNECROS would probably have a field day with that statement). I have read and been told that one of the reasons the rituals for the degrees are kept secret is so that (because there are so many rites and versions, I guess) the uninitiated would not have any preconceptions about what was going to take place, and instead of waiting for what he is expecting he is able to experience the ritual with no disappointment that it might not go like he had anticipated. Wow that was a long sentence. This seems alot more feasable to me than keeping it from them to conceal the Reptilian Overlords' total control over Freemasonry. I look forward to reading M&D, I just want to wait until I will get the most out of it, and be able to understand fully what he is really trying to get across. This might seem silly to some but it makes sense to me.

[edit on 7/24/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by The Axeman
See, I am tempted to read it, but at the same time, I have been told that I shouldn't read anything too specific as far as rituals and all that goes.

M&D does not step you through the rituals, but it does present Pike's opinion of what should be learned from each degree, 1 through 32, which is largely philosophy. The philosophy expresses a good way to live and view the world, whether you are a Mason or not.

I've also contacted a local Lodge about joining and will be going to a monthly breakfast they have each month the first week in August. As yet I have not submitted a petition largely due to some personal things that will be consuming my time in the short term, but I am certain I will be submitting a petition within the next several months.
.

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by The Axeman
See, I am tempted to read it, but at the same time, I have been told that I shouldn't read anything too specific as far as rituals and all that goes.

M&D does not step you through the rituals, but it does present Pike's opinion of what should be learned from each degree, 1 through 32, which is largely philosophy. The philosophy expresses a good way to live and view the world, whether you are a Mason or not.

I've also contacted a local Lodge about joining and will be going to a monthly breakfast they have each month the first week in August. As yet I have not submitted a petition largely due to some personal things that will be consuming my time in the short term, but I am certain I will be submitting a petition within the next several months.

That's pretty much where I am too... I have some personal issues to weed out before I go for it, I haven't contacted the lodge yet, but I am DEFINITELY planning on petitioning. I don't know when, but I hope I can do it sooner than later.

I see your point about M&D, I think I will wait, myself though... I'm sure I can find lots of other stuff to study until then.

Originally posted by theron dunn
Gosh, I love this... every now and then someone trots out this hoax and posts it as if it were real, and now thoroughly discredited. This is a quote from the infamous "Mazzini Letter" of 1871.

The fact that it is a hoax is explanation enough, and the fact that this quote only appears on the web pages of conspiracy buffs and masonic critics is ALSO, ipso facto proof that it is without value.

Its kind of funny, really, when masonic critics don't do their research and use fake materials to criticize... sort of makes their position look as morally, intellectually and spiritually bankrupt as it really is...

If you had bothered to read my first post you would have noticed that I said I had never heard of him before and I even wrote "allegedly written in 1871", I didn't say it was real I merely asked for other peoples opinions on him and his letter to try to find out if it was real or not.

Also, this writer who claims to be Pike uses words like "Nazism" and "Fascism", which were terms not yet even invented when Pike died.

Very good point, this letter is most definately a hoax.

[edit on 24-7-2004 by legion]

Ok, if you had never heard of it before and posted it in innocence, and if I offended by my post, please accept my apologies.

I have seen this post so often that it is like someone writing the pope is the antichrist to a catholic or that jews are miserly or that blacks... well, you get my drift.

I've heard it mentioned by a number of sources that there is a 33rd degree that is offered to certain individuals in free masonry, which is the secretive part that is being concealed. Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and George W. Bush, and his father and grandfather supposedly where in the American organization, Skulls and Bones. They are saying this organization is worldwide and has existed almost always. Supposedly, 33rd degree masonry is full blown devotion to Lucifer whom they say is Jesus' brother. A ritual is held in coffins bonding them to Satan. There are probably pledges they must accomplish that may be anything evil. I've never read most of this in the Holy Bible, so I don't know if it's true. Perhaps, it's true but not relevant because what matters is your faith in Jesus Christ.

One of the individuals who talks about this is David J. Smith who has a late evening program on the radio usually between 10:00 PM and 12:00 PM. He was from the Church of God but then stepped out on his own to form the Church of God Evangelistic Association. You can pop his name in a search engine and read up on this. He mentions Albert Pike a fair bit. I'm not a member of his church though to clear up any distinctions.

Anyway, they call it a religion devoted to a one world government which does correlate to a world system's reference in many places of the Bible and the book of Revelation. Sadly, I don't have proof that this is true. Also, I wonder why the latin on the back of a dollar bill is New World Order. Something is happening.

Possibly, it may be true. Although, anything can be taken to extremes and used for evil like religions and organizations.

Did anyone hear all of "Meet the Press" with Tim Russert when he interviewed George W. Bush and John Kerry? Tim Russert mentioned he had many notify him that Bush and Kerry were both members of "Skulls and Bones", the American version of free masonry. George Bush supposedly told Tim Russert, "Tim, that topic is so secretive that I can't discuss it." Unfortunately, I was tuned in that Sunday morning and heard the discussion ensue, but I missed part of it when I left for church.


[edit on 24-7-2004 by Savoirfaire]

Originally posted by Savoirfaire
I've heard it mentioned by a number of sources that there is a 33rd degree that is offered to certain individuals in free masonry, which is the secretive part that is being concealed.

The 33° is an honorary degree and title in the Scottish Rite. It is no more secretive than any other Masonic degree, and certainly isn't concealed...most 33° Masons have 33° decals on the backs of their cars!

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and George W. Bush, and his father and grandfather supposedly where in the American organization, Skulls and Bones.

Both George W. Bush and George H.W. Bush were members of Skull and Bones. Clinton and Gore were not.

They are saying this organization is worldwide and has existed almost always.

Skull and Bones has been around about a hundred years, and exists only at Yale University.

Supposedly, 33rd degree masonry is full blown devotion to Lucifer whom they say is Jesus' brother. A ritual is held in coffins bonding them to Satan. There are probably pledges they must accomplish that may be anything evil.

As mentioned, the 33° is an honorariam in Scottish Rite Masonry. Only Christians believe in Jesus and Satan; not all Masons are Christians. Therefore, it would be ridiculous for Masonry to base rituals on such stuff (which many Masons don't even believe in).
Freemasonry is not a church, Christian or otherwise. It's a fraternity.

I wonder why the latin on the back of a dollar bill is New World Order.

It doesn't. It says "Novus Ordo Seclorum", which means "new order for the ages." This phrase appears to have been invented by the French philosopher Voltaire, and refers to his belief (as well as our forefathers) that democracy would sweep across the world in the Enlightened Age.

Tim Russert mentioned he had many notify him that Bush and Kerry were both members of "Skulls and Bones", the American version of free masonry.

Skull and Bones is not "the American version of Freemasonry"; in fact, Skull and Bones has nothing to do with Freemasonry at all. Freemasonry is an international fraternal organization, founded in its present form in London in 1717, but had existed as a stonemasons guild previously.
Skull and Bones is a college frat at Yale, and admits only seniors who enrolled there.

Fiat Lvx.

Thank you for the information and the websites. That's the sad thing that you can't always believe what you read or hear. However, with the current state of politics (greed, power and fame) I can imagine just about anything.