prostitution should be legalized

Originally posted by shagula

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229


I dont agree with your opinion and you dont agree with mine. Lets just leave it at that.

You can justify all you want to prove your point and thats fine.

Its sad if you consider my comments as insults.

I'm not asking you to agree with my opinion. Im asking you to speak on the facts, which you still havent. Every single time you are presented with a fact you turn to personal attacks or deflections.

As for being sad, well, the mod sure didnt think your comments were appropriate either....whats sad is being so brainwashed that you cant follow a logical path of thinking and have to resort to strawmen, namecalling and backhanded insults.

What makes you think I'm the one who is brainwashed ?

2nd line.

Your posts. Duh.

2nd line.

I guess you didnt get my point of counter question. That explains the institutionalized response.

You still havn't answered my questions. Would you let your adult children be prostitutes ? or your spouse? I'm not sure if you're married or have kids or any of that.

I would hope I know the person I'm going to be dating or marrying enough to know if prostitution was an option for them if I was opposed to it. Do you feel that because a girl becomes a stripper in a strip club, that she instantly has degraded morals and a standard of living?

Do you think think if a woman came from an abused background and could find a legitimate way to earn enough money to raise, say, a kid she had from a troubled past on good terms with their own morals and plenty of resources she is now a degraded human being? If someone will pay for it, and can do it safely to bring a sense of joy to someone who has fallen on rough times, why stop them?

An upset husband can go down to a bar, take off his ring, get tanked and find a trashed girl to abuse. So we should do a check on people going into bars to make sure their morals are up to par with the activity they are seeking?

The reason there's underage prostitution, and abused women in the field is because there is no regulation. I happen to believe that a grown man with responsibilities in life would much rather pursue a legal path to safely providing sexual satisfaction with no binds, than cruising down Main street looking for a dirty tramp. I'd like to see a person seeking prostitution in a legalized way get away with abusing the girl without severe repercussions.

Escorts, strippers, and porn stars aren't instantly degraded, terrible human beings are they? They are in a profession, with regulations, protections, regular health checks and are held to a standard of an establishment compared to some pimp who will prey on the weak and underage girls looking for a quick buck rather than an actual profession.

I agree that many women are forced into it by individuals or by economic circumstances or by no one but their own choice. But to answer your question no it does not mean he/she has bad morals but it just means that the foundation itself is twisted for what is good and what is bad from the perspective of being a human being. The individual is not at fault here.

How did the woman become a victim of abuse? Thats is the big question. It only happens when women are not respected in a society. Definitely not the woman's fault as well. Society's fault.

If the woman cannot control her husband than its certainly her problem. As for the husband its definitely not a solution to go down to the bar but rather a adding fuel to the fire. Definitely low moral and self esteem on the husbands part if you ask me.

So making it legal will improvise the working condition of prostitution? Wow. Once again It is very hard for me to imagine but I definitely feel that prostitution is really not a good way to make a living legal or illegal.

Escorts porn stars are all degraded by their own conscious i'm sure upto certain extent. Once again, I think this has to do with the social structure in general as per what is normal and what is not. Sure the criminals and attention getters make tonnes of money in US but how much of it was earned with dignity and self respect is upto the individuals to decide and be happy or unhappy with their profession. Certainly they're not terrible human beings but victim of circumstances is how I look at things.

Originally posted by hp1229
Ok what about 18+ year old adult who happens to be your son/daughter? Would you advice them to take up prostitute because it is legal and make some spare change while they attend college ?

I wouldn't advise them to, but if it's what they wanted to do and it was legal, I would support them.

Why would it be different with a family member or relative?

It wouldn't. By the way, an adult son or daughter WOULD be family or relative.

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

 

So why not legalize other types of murder?

I'm not going to get into an abortion debate with you. FWIW, in the post you quoted, I MEANT to say prostitution. Abortion IS a;ready legal.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
No one should have to sell their body to make a living, and no one should be forced into the sex trade, it is barbaric,

And no one is advocating being FORCED to sell their body or being FORCED into a sex trade.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
In other words people who frequent prostitutes are exploiting individuals that are in need of help.

maybe yes, but everybody is free to ask for help the way they like it to obtain ...
I never would go to a girl that asks for help that way ... because I think it is not fair, not "gentleman" to abuse from her the way it happens ....
but you do not know her intentions .... is she a victim ?. is she free to do it ? is she asking for help she cannot get otherwise ?
I say it again : I do not want to go to a girl that way .. I do not like prostitution ... but I do not like it the way they
( the powers in place ) would tell us it is illegal !!!
as long as you have free man and woman making arrangements together, nobody has to put his stupid NOSE into our relationships and sexual behaviour !!!
put your nose into your own ass, I say to those stupid lawmakers !
sorry for my english if it is special or you do not understand it, as I am french .... have a good beer man/woman

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229


Is that too bad to ask or strive for in a society ?

What is wrong with monogomy ?

or Marriage ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

There you go again pushing your beliefs as though they should be the way for everyone.

marriage is a religious institute.

Some people believe in polygamy.

You go ahead and do those things. Please tell me why you feel everyone else should have to.

I am not pushing anything. I am simply asking counter questions.

I did not type 'You should practice monogomy" to indicate that I am imposing my values onto others

You are offering monogamy as a reason prostitution should not be legal. Or trying, at least. After you have offered morals, economy, and cultural reason, all of which have been shot down.

edit on 28-3-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

It is not your fault. It is the culture that you have been brought up with.

Monogamy is not a reason but a cure for seeking external pleasure with unknown individual for sexual pleasure. To me sex is not merely a urge or need but also respect.

Just by typing few responses and feeling better indicating that all I have offered was shot down on ATS doesnt hide the truth from the self conscious

No, but a quick look through this thread sure shows you have no argument to stand on here.

I do love the idea, though, that not advocating marriage means im a product of my culture, when the US is an EXTREMELY marriage heavy nation. Disgustingly so. It is indoctrinated in our kids from the minute they start being cognizant.

But I'M the one who is a product of my culture....Seriously, you are really bad at this

I am not here to argue the way you feel this thread is for proving a point and scoring a victory or something. The US might be advocating a marriage heavy country.

You still have not answered the questions directly but rather indirect answers with unsurity. Are you married or not? If yes, do you have children who are above 18? If Yes, would you let your son/daughter make a living by becoming a prostitute even if you disagree?

reply to post by hp1229


I know off the top of my head right now 3 girls who actually enjoy being treated like porn stars.
One even says...she doesn't watch porn...she is porn.
Some like strange things....I however don't find it strange and am glad women like this exist.
If they were prostitutes by their own choice would you judge them of being low moral and low self-esteem?
If you knew them you wouldn't,they just love sex.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by hp1229
Ok what about 18+ year old adult who happens to be your son/daughter? Would you advice them to take up prostitute because it is legal and make some spare change while they attend college ?

I wouldn't advise them to, but if it's what they wanted to do and it was legal, I would support them.

Why would it be different with a family member or relative?

It wouldn't. By the way, an adult son or daughter WOULD be family or relative.

Wow. I am just surprised thats all.

By relatives and family member, I meant cousins, uncles etc not immediately family members

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229


Is that too bad to ask or strive for in a society ?

What is wrong with monogomy ?

or Marriage ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

There you go again pushing your beliefs as though they should be the way for everyone.

marriage is a religious institute.

Some people believe in polygamy.

You go ahead and do those things. Please tell me why you feel everyone else should have to.

I am not pushing anything. I am simply asking counter questions.

I did not type 'You should practice monogomy" to indicate that I am imposing my values onto others

You are offering monogamy as a reason prostitution should not be legal. Or trying, at least. After you have offered morals, economy, and cultural reason, all of which have been shot down.

edit on 28-3-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

It is not your fault. It is the culture that you have been brought up with.

Monogamy is not a reason but a cure for seeking external pleasure with unknown individual for sexual pleasure. To me sex is not merely a urge or need but also respect.

Just by typing few responses and feeling better indicating that all I have offered was shot down on ATS doesnt hide the truth from the self conscious

No, but a quick look through this thread sure shows you have no argument to stand on here.

I do love the idea, though, that not advocating marriage means im a product of my culture, when the US is an EXTREMELY marriage heavy nation. Disgustingly so. It is indoctrinated in our kids from the minute they start being cognizant.

But I'M the one who is a product of my culture....Seriously, you are really bad at this

I am not here to argue the way you feel this thread is for proving a point and scoring a victory or something. The US might be advocating a marriage heavy country.

You still have not answered the questions directly but rather indirect answers with unsurity. Are you married or not? If yes, do you have children who are above 18? If Yes, would you let your son/daughter make a living by becoming a prostitute even if you disagree?

Oh yeah you are, thats why you keep deflecting the topic and trying to turn it into a personal and emotional debate. Standard tactics, really. Try debating with facts, and not emotion. You might get somewhere.

I have answered your questions at least 3 times now. I dont feel like typing them again (although you responded directly to my answer before, so now I'm wondering if you have short term memory issues).

It scares me how much you use the term 'let'. Do you really think you have any right to 'let' or 'not let' a consenting adult do what they wish?

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by hp1229

 

I know off the top of my head right now 3 girls who actually enjoy being treated like porn stars.
One even says...she doesn't watch porn...she is porn.
Some like strange things....I however don't find it strange and am glad women like this exist.
If they were prostitutes by their own choice would you judge them of being low moral and low self-esteem?
If you knew them you wouldn't,they just love sex.

I agree. It is not their fault. The society has changed to such an extent that it seems like a no big thing to them. Can you imagine the women back lets say 70 years ago acting the same ?

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by hp1229

 

I know off the top of my head right now 3 girls who actually enjoy being treated like porn stars.
One even says...she doesn't watch porn...she is porn.
Some like strange things....I however don't find it strange and am glad women like this exist.
If they were prostitutes by their own choice would you judge them of being low moral and low self-esteem?
If you knew them you wouldn't,they just love sex.

I agree. It is not their fault. The society has changed to such an extent that it seems like a no big thing to them. Can you imagine the women back lets say 70 years ago acting the same ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

Do you have an issue with the FACT that men acted this way 70 years ago, and were cheered for it (and still are, to this day?)

reply to post by hp1229


My aunt who passed away last year at 60 was a prostitute in her early years.
That agrument doesn't cut the mustard.

Society didn't make them like sex....great sex makes them like sex.

People also underestimate how much a good prostitute earns, while working for such a short time. I think most legal prostitutes would not change their job if an alternative was available..

OP, recently in Toronto a court ruling, under pressure from prostitute activists, made prostitution LEGAL. This was a stunning move, and gives hope it might spread to other areas.. who knows.

Prostitution is largely being kept illegal so that it allows law enforcement and judges to make money out of it from behind, in collaboration with local mobs. This is an old corruption/sex exploitation scheme that needs to be broken down... but that ain't easy since a lot of legal crooks within the govt will defend status quo.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by hp1229

 

My aunt who passed away last year at 60 was a prostitute in her early years.
That agrument doesn't cut the mustard.

Society didn't make them like sex....great sex makes them like sex.

I personally know that it was great sex that made me like sex...course, I am a male of the species, so I could tattoo it on my forehead and no one would care.

Apparently its only not ok for women to admit they like sex.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229


Is that too bad to ask or strive for in a society ?

What is wrong with monogomy ?

or Marriage ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

There you go again pushing your beliefs as though they should be the way for everyone.

marriage is a religious institute.

Some people believe in polygamy.

You go ahead and do those things. Please tell me why you feel everyone else should have to.

I am not pushing anything. I am simply asking counter questions.

I did not type 'You should practice monogomy" to indicate that I am imposing my values onto others

You are offering monogamy as a reason prostitution should not be legal. Or trying, at least. After you have offered morals, economy, and cultural reason, all of which have been shot down.

edit on 28-3-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

It is not your fault. It is the culture that you have been brought up with.

Monogamy is not a reason but a cure for seeking external pleasure with unknown individual for sexual pleasure. To me sex is not merely a urge or need but also respect.

Just by typing few responses and feeling better indicating that all I have offered was shot down on ATS doesnt hide the truth from the self conscious

No, but a quick look through this thread sure shows you have no argument to stand on here.

I do love the idea, though, that not advocating marriage means im a product of my culture, when the US is an EXTREMELY marriage heavy nation. Disgustingly so. It is indoctrinated in our kids from the minute they start being cognizant.

But I'M the one who is a product of my culture....Seriously, you are really bad at this

I am not here to argue the way you feel this thread is for proving a point and scoring a victory or something. The US might be advocating a marriage heavy country.

You still have not answered the questions directly but rather indirect answers with unsurity. Are you married or not? If yes, do you have children who are above 18? If Yes, would you let your son/daughter make a living by becoming a prostitute even if you disagree?

Oh yeah you are, thats why you keep deflecting the topic and trying to turn it into a personal and emotional debate. Standard tactics, really. Try debating with facts, and not emotion. You might get somewhere.

I have answered your questions at least 3 times now. I dont feel like typing them again (although you responded directly to my answer before, so now I'm wondering if you have short term memory issues).

It scares me how much you use the term 'let'. Do you really think you have any right to 'let' or 'not let' a consenting adult do what they wish?

Standard tactics? What do you think we're doing here ? We're just discussing. Not playing any strategy game.
You can try all you want and type all you want. You know your conscious better than me. I dont have to type anything else in response.

As a father and a husband, I have all the right to guide, coach and possibly enforce the values into them so that my wife and children are not falling victim to the mainstream bs. That is called manning it up to your responsibility as a father and a husband. Simply stating that I will not intervene and I leave it upto as it is their life and all that nonsense will only spoil a person's life down the road. As parents it is our responsibility to see to it that the children chose the path to success that does not involve prostitution. As a spouse, it is my responsibility to keep the partner happy and discuss the issues that might lead her to seek attention outside the marriage.

Just curious. Are you married and do you have a wife and children(s)?

reply to post by TheAmused


I agree!! Interesting opinion...

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by hp1229

 

My aunt who passed away last year at 60 was a prostitute in her early years.
That agrument doesn't cut the mustard.

Society didn't make them like sex....great sex makes them like sex.

Good for her.

How you look at SEX itself is part of the society It is different in a Amish community vs Polygamist or the way it used to be at the ashram of Rajnish who preached the philosophy of Sex to Superconscious (eventually failed).

reply to post by hp1229


Well I see what stance you are arguing from.
I don't want to be either a father or a husband.
I also don't want people telling me if its moral or what I should or shouldn't be doing.
You are not talking to your wife or your kids...you are talking to a grown adult who refuses to live how you do.
I respect your way of life and will never condemn it...I hope the feeling is mutual and non-judgemental.

reply to post by TheAmused


Agreed. I've been arguing this point for a long time. Although I personally would NEVER partake in it (unless life somehow leads me to a very, very dark and desperate point. One just never knows what might hit them next), I think anyone who wants to should be able to.

Both men and women already participate in this exchange the illegal way, which only creates a hostile and dangerous environment for both parties. You have pimps who hold girls hostage and force them to do things nobody should ever have to do. They get them addicted to bad drugs, beat them, work them crazy hours, give them very little in exchange,... so in many ways it becomes sexual slavery and abuse. The girls come down with all sorts of diseases, only to pass them onto their clients.

If it were legalized and rules were put in place to ensure the safety of both provider and customer, it would cut down on a lot of abuse of these women, cut down on the spread of disease, court costs, it would free up jail space, and in addition it would create tax revenue. It's a win win situation!

You can outlaw prostitution all you want, it will still continue to exist. I think some people fear legalizing it, because they think that once it's legal their children could grow up to be prostitutes. They fear that this will reflect on the country's and culture's moral standards. In all honesty people who will participate in such activities will do so whether or not it is legal. The difference is that right now those who participate in it in the shadows are endangering themselves and others by doing so.

The fact that it is illegal gives bad people more power. A young girl isn't going to call the police when her pimp strikes her down or owes her money, because she knows she'll end up in jail as well. If it were legal, that same girl could call the police and have her boss arrested for the attack. The girl would have a choice as to what establishment would give her the best opportunities, and therefore would be able to receive fair treatment and compensation for her work. Customers would also be happier, because they would be able to choose from a variety of clean establishments where they could be ensured of safety and regulation. These establishments would have to compete against each other, having to provide the best service possible if they want to stay in business. Enslavement of their employees would be far less likely, because these employees would be backed by the law. Women wouldn't have to be afraid of being hacked to pieces in someone's car in the alley, because protection would be provided for them at the establishment, and undesirable or violent customers would be denied entrance.

Although I don't see myself ever providing or using such services, I think the benefit to everyone from legalizing such establishments far outweighs the negatives.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
reply to post by hp1229

 

I know off the top of my head right now 3 girls who actually enjoy being treated like porn stars.
One even says...she doesn't watch porn...she is porn.
Some like strange things....I however don't find it strange and am glad women like this exist.
If they were prostitutes by their own choice would you judge them of being low moral and low self-esteem?
If you knew them you wouldn't,they just love sex.

I agree. It is not their fault. The society has changed to such an extent that it seems like a no big thing to them. Can you imagine the women back lets say 70 years ago acting the same ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

Do you have an issue with the FACT that men acted this way 70 years ago, and were cheered for it (and still are, to this day?)

No. I'm not even sure if it was a FACT (maybe it was the backward societies ). I dont have any issue with anyone as per how they acted or behaved some 70 years ago. I am simply stating my point that things have changed over the time and what used to be a culture shock isnt a culture shock anymore.

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by hp1229


Is that too bad to ask or strive for in a society ?

What is wrong with monogomy ?

or Marriage ?

edit on 28-3-2011 by hp1229 because: (no reason given)

There you go again pushing your beliefs as though they should be the way for everyone.

marriage is a religious institute.

Some people believe in polygamy.

You go ahead and do those things. Please tell me why you feel everyone else should have to.

I am not pushing anything. I am simply asking counter questions.

I did not type 'You should practice monogomy" to indicate that I am imposing my values onto others

You are offering monogamy as a reason prostitution should not be legal. Or trying, at least. After you have offered morals, economy, and cultural reason, all of which have been shot down.

edit on 28-3-2011 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

It is not your fault. It is the culture that you have been brought up with.

Monogamy is not a reason but a cure for seeking external pleasure with unknown individual for sexual pleasure. To me sex is not merely a urge or need but also respect.

Just by typing few responses and feeling better indicating that all I have offered was shot down on ATS doesnt hide the truth from the self conscious

No, but a quick look through this thread sure shows you have no argument to stand on here.

I do love the idea, though, that not advocating marriage means im a product of my culture, when the US is an EXTREMELY marriage heavy nation. Disgustingly so. It is indoctrinated in our kids from the minute they start being cognizant.

But I'M the one who is a product of my culture....Seriously, you are really bad at this

I am not here to argue the way you feel this thread is for proving a point and scoring a victory or something. The US might be advocating a marriage heavy country.

You still have not answered the questions directly but rather indirect answers with unsurity. Are you married or not? If yes, do you have children who are above 18? If Yes, would you let your son/daughter make a living by becoming a prostitute even if you disagree?

Oh yeah you are, thats why you keep deflecting the topic and trying to turn it into a personal and emotional debate. Standard tactics, really. Try debating with facts, and not emotion. You might get somewhere.

I have answered your questions at least 3 times now. I dont feel like typing them again (although you responded directly to my answer before, so now I'm wondering if you have short term memory issues).

It scares me how much you use the term 'let'. Do you really think you have any right to 'let' or 'not let' a consenting adult do what they wish?

Standard tactics? What do you think we're doing here ? We're just discussing. Not playing any strategy game.
You can try all you want and type all you want. You know your conscious better than me. I dont have to type anything else in response.

As a father and a husband, I have all the right to guide, coach and possibly enforce the values into them so that my wife and children are not falling victim to the mainstream bs. That is called manning it up to your responsibility as a father and a husband. Simply stating that I will not intervene and I leave it upto as it is their life and all that nonsense will only spoil a person's life down the road. As parents it is our responsibility to see to it that the children chose the path to success that does not involve prostitution. As a spouse, it is my responsibility to keep the partner happy and discuss the issues that might lead her to seek attention outside the marriage.

Just curious. Are you married and do you have a wife and children(s)?

Are we? All I am seeing from you are strawmen and attempts to make this a personal and emotional based argument. You are presenting NOTHING of fact. It is a tactic in debate when you cannot respond, when your stance is lost, to deflect, to make emotional based arguments, and to ignore altogether. You are using ALL of these tactics.

1)As a parent to a minor, you absolutely have the right to guide, even force your children. When it comes to consenting adults, you have no such right, and to think you do is disgusting. Marriage does not mean you control your partner. It is not your responsibility to control what they do. That is called being arrogant, and bordering on mentally abusive.

2)If your spouse decides to become a prostitute, why do you assume that it is about seeking something outside of the marriage, and not about making a good living?

3)As a parent, you have every right to steer your child in whatever direction you wish. But the directions you wish to steer your child may not be the same as the direction someone else wants to steer theirs. What gives you the right to make that decision for them?

4)I dont feel the need to divulge any personal information on this site. I will tell you that yes, I do have people in my life that I am responsible for. Thats as far as I am going, as I know better than to give someone who is using emotionally based and personal arguments any ammunition to use to get me emotional about it.