A Question for ATS Masons, What is a Ster-convex

reply to post by jackflap


One of the very interesting things I discovered when I started researching the Conch Shell is while the Conch plays a central role in the Hindu, Aztec and Mayan Creation Myths, many other religions including Christianity also seem to have quite a bit going on with the Clam Shell.

In Catholicism you have the Holy See/Sea while the Hindus believe that it was a note that caused the universe to form and that the note was captured by a conch shell from the sea and out of the sea.

I found it very interesting that continents away religions as different as the ancient India/Hindu ones and the Mesopatamian Indians in the Americas were both hitting on the conch shell in creation myths.

Amazingly the spiral in the conch not only utilizes the Golden Mean but is in the same spiral that the galaxy itself is sought to exist.

Giving new rise perhaps to the Masonic observeration "As it is above so it is below".

People seem to have a natural afinity for them, recently at a backyard barbeque when a group of people asked me what I thought the future would bring, I told them it would be different for each one of them, grabbed an conch shell in the yard being used as a lawn ornament and told them to each listen to the conch shell as it would tell them what the future would specifically bring for them.

Amazingly all eight people at the table took a turn and didn't appear to simply be humoring me, but each intently listened to and examined the conch shell like it was something that they actually wanted to do.

I thought about this and wonder since it is able to pick up the vibrations of the earth and resonate them within it's shell if perhaps that is somehow soothing or calming to people, and that's what caused them each to linger over their turn with the conch.

Life is a funny old dog.

reply to post by jackflap


I am actually already familiar with Rolands music the Wizard of Weed, Aquarius1 emailed his website administrator who told her Roland is still alive and living in Weed and still playing his Conch Shells and he would be happy to forward any questions she might have to him.

I'm probably going to have to spend three days on this thread alone. This is awesome!

Originally posted by lo7s3v3n7ol
I'm probably going to have to spend three days on this thread alone. This is awesome!

Some really amazing links and books listed in this thread.

I am thinking it's going to take more than a few days to explore them all.

Awsome contributions from everyone. Thanks my friend.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It's interesting that music through it's vibrations and mathematics may indeed not only manifest quantum building blocks of not just abstract geometrical shapes but scenes and acts like in a play, perhaps merging primordial elements and matter together using the vibration as a form of energy to rearange the molecules and vibrate them together like a form of glue, while at the same time creating more or less a script or equation for the repeditive use.

Indeed. As we delve deeper into the micro-cosmic we eventually come to the primordial 'foam' of which all matter is created. This quantum matrix, which is postulated to be the multi-dimensional string constructs, is in essence the equation of all matter and subsequently all events in the universe. It is the algorithim of all.

This of course would give new rise to the saying "Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art".

Perhaps one day we will find that we are our own art with its own life.

It is just one more example of how the arts relate to the golden ratio. Check this out.

www.newhermetics.com...

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Perhaps one day we will find that we are our own art with its own life.

Giving rise to the saying "He is his own worst critic".

Perhaps egotistically we just keep that one degree of separation from that reality as to prevent being unable to fully savor our works of arts?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Perhaps egotistically we just keep that one degree of separation from that reality as to prevent being unable to fully savor our works of arts?

Perhaps. I wonder what style each of us would be. I was always partial to Impressionism, although if I were networkdude and his lack of beer it would be more like Depressionism.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


again with the beer. One day, when I am grandmaster, I am going to order that all lodges in NC must have at least one keg cooled and tapped just in case any yankees come to visit. We wouldn't want you boys to feel out of place.
It may be a few years, but it will be first on my list of things to do.

Originally posted by network dude
One day, when I am grandmaster, I am going to order that all lodges in NC must have at least one keg cooled and tapped just in case any yankees come to visit. We wouldn't want you boys to feel out of place.

Aww. And to reciprocate, when you come to visit me in the New York City area I will break out the Tetley for you.

And some scotch for me.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Perhaps egotistically we just keep that one degree of separation from that reality as to prevent being unable to fully savor our works of arts?

When we are moved by artistic styles be it music, sculptures, paintings or some other form of expression we are often inspired to create our own form of expression to relay the feelings that have been conjured in us. It's almost as if the message gets passed along and interpreted differently along the way. It's almost like the game that children play by whispering in one person's ear and passing the message along to everyone that is involved and listening to what the message ended up becoming.

Now imagine the resonance or expression that created your own essence or spirit if you will. Are we all an expression of something that was passed along and are we just one of many yet to be created interpretations? Or can it be that we are the end of the line and the final interpretation of some original creation that has been interpreted along the fabric of time by so many that were moved by its presence?

I know one thing for sure. The next time I behold a work of art or listen to a song, I will be very cognizant of everything we have posted here. I will be aware of its energy that will make an attempt at moving me one way or the other but it will have a tougher time from here on out. I'll gaze back and wait for it to be moved by the work of art that is beholding it.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


S&F, nice find.

I've been fascinated with this topic for a while, not sure if you've heard of Stuart Mitchell or the Rosslyn Chapel, but if not you may find some interesting stuff related to your topic. Especially the Rosslyn Motet, a supposed deciphered musical code hidden in the ceiling design of Rosslyn Chapel. Yyou can listen to it hear.

www.crystalinks.com...

I find it soothing

Originally posted by network dude
Based on what I have been looking into, this and this seem to fit and may open some very interesting doors. I am well aware of Hutchison's reputation and the fact that he is a loon, but before you discredit him, remember that the military spent a good bit of money trying to get him to be able to reproduce his results. There had to be something there to start with. Almost every alternative fuel theory involved harmonics to some degree in the process.

Another interesting side note would be this.

May be nothing, may be something.

edit to add: sorry about the auto start music in the second link. It always annoys me, but at least it's good music.

edit on 28-3-2011 by network dude because: apology

Oh you tricky goat. You say you know nothing about all this esoteric mystery school occult knowledge ... and here I find you laying it out with the best of them! I'm very impressed.

I'll have to come back and read all this wonderful knowledge!

I'll contribute a few threads with lots of mystical books as payment:
knowledgefiles.com
forgottenbooks.org

Wonderful thread Proto, thanks for the hint!

ETA...
reply to post by JoshNorton


Pythagorus supposedly learned from the Egyptian mystery schools.

Our whole wester music is detuned, not following pythagorus. It is "equal temperament" meaning all the notes are off just a smidge. I wonder if this wasn't done to hide some of the power of music. Like so many things the essence is hidden from the average learner.

I very much agree with Tamahu:

Originally posted by TamahuAlso of relevance, is the fact that most contemporary music is vulgar and profane (even if it doesn't use curse words)

To me music is the most powerful force in the universe. I see everything is really music.. vibration. Astrology, Astronomy, physics, .... it all comes down to vibration. From many of the posts I think many of you know more than I do about this.

reply to post by pianopraze

Wonderful thread Proto, thanks for the hint!

Thanks, glad to hear you are enjoying the thread. I sure am.

Masons and non-Masons alike have been contributing some great information throughout and everyone is getting along splendidly too and best of all learning from one another.

I agree with you and feel music is perhaps the most powerful force in the universe.

I think all music is 'pure' but it's a matter of intent, are you feeling dark and diabolical or light hearted and gay, sad and forlorn, or upbeat and whimsical, destructive and potent, or impotent and frightened, for just about every feeling and direction there seems to be a note or chord or progression that captures that.

I think we would all in theory love to live in a perfect harmonious world of love, goodwill and plenty, but would we be able to recognize it and more importantly appreciate it if we didn't experience the polar opposite and the gradient scales of the octaves in between?

Our linear concept of time and illusionary temporal existence doesn't always allow us to see the continuation in the life stream which in many ways mimics music itself, going from verse, to chorus, verse to chorus, sequays, bridges, passages back and forth between verse and chorus.

If you were to string our historical time line into one song, I think it would be easier to spot those repeditive elements and maybe even take some comfort in that knowledge that nothing lasts forever.

Is it through a dark passage that we ultimately find our way through the chaos to the light with an ability to truly appreciate it once we arrive?

I think we would all like to think so, and oddly enough many of us feel much more competent and empowered to create music than we do life and a better life itself.

Music therefore might be the one instrument that teaches the most powerful lesson of all, the power to create and give life, to alter the world and universe through sound.

Isn't that too what we more or less attempt but often fail to do with words?

Thanks for joining in.

Originally posted by pianopraze
Our whole wester music is detuned, not following pythagorus. It is "equal temperament" meaning all the notes are off just a smidge. I wonder if this wasn't done to hide some of the power of music. Like so many things the essence is hidden from the average learner.

Well, I wasn't going to go into it, because it's probably more advanced than most people would care about, but it stems from this...

Octaves are double or half of the primary frequency.
The next harmonic produces the perfect fifth, and the ideal Pythagorean ratio to produce this is 3/2.

So I can start with, say, A440 (I know, I know, everyone else here wants to use a different number, but let's just follow the math, OK?)

So other frequencies that are higher octaves of A include 880, 1760, 3520, 7040, etc...
And E, a fifth up from A440 is 440 * 3/2 or 660.
Let's follow the circle of fifths, shall we? Up from E we get B at 990, F# at 1485, C# at 2227.5, G# at 3341.25, D# at 5011.875, Bb at 7517.8125, F at 11276.71875, C at 16915.078125, G at 25372.6171875, D at 38058.92578125, and finally back around to A at 57088.388671875.

But wait a second! If we keep multiplying our A440 by 2, we eventually hit the pure octave at 56320, That's a fair amount off from 57088.388671875. In fact, it's 768.388671875 Hz off.

That's part of why we have to use an artificial equal temperament. (Of course, the other reason is so that keyboards or fretted instruments like guitar can play in any key...)

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Some really amazing links and books listed in this thread.

I am thinking it's going to take more than a few days to explore them all.

Awsome contributions from everyone. Thanks my friend.

Once you're ready for some post doctoral stuff that will really blow your mind, check out this stuff. I've met the guy who came up with it, and it's WAYYYYYY beyond my comprehension, and I studied music theory for about 10 years...

reply to post by JoshNorton


Well interestingly enough right at the center of his Galaxy Music Chart is the Star Convex! It appears there is a possibility that the mentioned artist may have figured out the geometric patterns in three dimensional music a decade before the people in the Study in the Original Post did.

If true that would be quite significant not only as an independent source of validation but that some or at least one exceptional writer/composer discovered this at least conceptually through their own music.

That's a pretty intriquing development Mr. Norton.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


In another article he writes

I get the feeling that somewhere in prehistory this has all been worked out before, somewhere between India or Persia to the east and Arabia or Egypt to the west. I feel I'm on to something magical that permeates my music, something that might offer the "keys" to other ancient sciences and disciplines. Modern composers and improvisors have certainly used their intuition and inspiration to arrive at many of the above scales, but none as far as I know have devised a comprehensive multi-modal system to bring all permutations under creative control.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I think there is that natural quest on the part of some musicians to push the envelopes and boundaries. The Supergroups of the Sixties and the Seventies like the Beatles and Led Zepellin made treks to India and the Arab world looking to understand and incorporate native instruments, chords, sounds and rythems into their own works.

Of course they also made trips to the deep South often looking to rip off some Black blues musicians too, so it's hard to say whether it was purely artistic, purely commercial or a combination of both, but I do believe that the best and most talented musicians see music much like many of us see the universe and that's something of wonderously infinite possibilities.

Because in reality we are likely talking about infinite possibilities I don't think it likely possible it all could ever be charted or discovered but it does create a horizon that always has that beckoning frontier challenging one to go where no man has gone before, or in some cases as you and others have pointed out to go where no man has gone in a very long time.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


If you think back to the Yogi sitting cross legged with his fingertips touching extended in the air humming a monotonous tone, he was doing something. He was meditating. Achieving that frequency and sustaining it brought him inner peace. This is all something my grandfather dabbled in while we all called him crazy, I think he was just starting to understand the back door to enlightenment. If these soothing tones and frequencies can be produced in music, then they have the ability to effectively control the listener to a certain degree. Maybe not get them to run to the fridge and get you a beer subconsciously, but make them relaxed without them doing anything other than listen. It happens now with some music, but if we could understand what part of that music is doing the work, then we could use it more often and perhaps even amplify it's qualities.