A Question for ATS Masons, What is a Ster-convex

reply to post by JoshNorton


Plato pointed out the paradoxes of time.

Zeno's Arrow Paradox

I had never thought of time and music, but it makes sense. Music cannot exist without time. Many things cannot exist absent of time to measure them. Time is also not "technically" a dimension, so adding dimensions to music might substitute for time and give a visual representation?

Perhaps many things that exist in a wave structure could be graphed in multiple dimensions outside the constraint of time, and then they could be understood better?

A "snapshot of music" is an interesting concept, and maybe it is one that can be explored in other realms, like energy?

Plato also had major influence on Masonry.
and may have been an early Mason.

reply to post by JoshNorton


One of the amazing things about sound and especially music is I on occassion have very lucid musical dreams where I am playing with a band, on my drums, what are really some amazing musical works.

I read drum music which is basically just notes, but I don't know a thing about harmonics or chord structure or progression even though my mind in my dreams has clearly created every part to the song and is playing all the instrumental parts at once.

That suggests a level of subconcious or inherent knowledge that far surpasses my own concious knowledge.

Yet some how my mind builds it all, just as it will when I play a song back in my mind, where the guitars, bass, strings, horns and percussion are all included simply through an imprinted memory.

A memory that in fact might actually be in the shape of a geometric pattern committed to memory and left as an indellible imprint on the mind.

Conversely some people probably remember songs better than they do information or events.

In my own case hearing any song will automatically trigger the memories of where I was and what I was doing the very first time I heard that song.

So it's for me at least a powerful memory tool, where the music ends up becoming associated with events when I first heard it.

Reputed to soothe the savage beast, there appears to be so much more to music than we fully comprehend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I've been a musician for about 7/8ths of my life. I still get up on stage every once in a while to rock the crowds. What became fascinating to me was that I can intentionally, consciously trigger an endorphine rush when listening to a song in my car. All I need to do is imagine it's me on stage making the music, and all the sudden I get the chills at the back of my neck... It's a natural high. I don't know if being a musician for so long has just hardwired that reaction into me, so that now all I need to do is think about it to recreate that situation, or what. Much later in life I've become a visual artist as well, but have yet to be able to self-induce the same euphoria when thinking about photography or video or the like...

Also, unrelated but perhaps worth a glance, this.

reply to post by JoshNorton


I too sometimes get those tingly endorphin sensations when listening to some songs I consider to be especially passionate when it comes to evoking and conjuring emotions.

Amazingly when Beethoven wrote his 9th Symphony and Ode to Joy he was completely deaf and wrote it all out on his piano by pressing his ear to the wood of the piano to physically register the vibrations with his other unaffected senses.

Broke and near ruined it was economic circumstances that led him to the massive undertaking despite being deaf but the fears lingered that he had perhaps written what would be his final and utter ruin not his salvation.

Legend has it on opening night insisting he conduct the orchestra himself to lure in the crowd that when the symphony was over he stood like a statue stone faced staring at the orchestra for five full minutes afraid to turn and face the audience.

Finally a stage hand took mercy on him and gently turned him around to face his audience on it’s feet for five minutes already weeping and applauding where they would remain for another 20 minutes paying homage to his unrivaled musical genius.

Just writing that gives me goose bumps and could lead one to consider that it’s not so much the tone but the vibrations as Beethoven wrote the entire symphony purely by the vibrations that the chords would produce!

Interestingly enough where my Chiropractor has failed, I was able to succeed by using music as therapy to calm and untangle fused and stressed nerves and tendons and even reverse the energy output from my cerebral cortex to heal what many would turn to drugs or surgery to try to alleviate.

I never knew you were a musician but with your keen intellect I have to say it doesn’t surprise me.

You don't need a scientist to tell you that scales have more than the octave in common. Anybody who properly studies music theory should be able to write a book on the diatonic scale and how all the key signatures are related. Have you ever heard of a diminished 7th chord or a diminished 7th flat9? If not read up on their functions. I can answer questions if you like.

reply to post by elfulanozutan0


No I haven't but I would love to hear more about it.

Please do tell.

Thanks.

Also of relevance, is the fact that most contemporary music is vulgar and profane (even if it doesn't use curse words); and here is a link to detailed explanations of how and why such is the case:

"The negative pole of sound is the tenebrous force which attracts us to this valley of bitterness."

"Such music is literally about staring into the abyss and finding no bridge, when in fact, the true works of spirituality always depict the path that leads out of suffering."

"The positive pole of sound is the miraculous force which attracts us towards the unmanifested Absolute where only happiness reigns."

reply to post by Tamahu


There are some that believe the Tavistock Institute has played a large role in formulating modern Rock music to specifically be of a destructive or negative nature of sorts.

I do very much enjoy it listening to it and playing it myself, but I also see how it is often full of anchor, leads people to dwell on negatives, and to rebel against authority and conventional morality.

I think it's also rather telling that changes in society as a whole like The Renaissance that ended the European Dark and Middle Ages very much centered around a rebirth in music, and that the tumultuous sixties and the hippie counter culture revolution too very much centered on and revolved around music.

Now while this may be purely accidental or circumstantial there is also quite a bit of musical evidence to suggest that if someone really understood how the vibrational elements of the music affected emotions and thinking that they could use music in theory as a way to mass program human beings into thinking and perhaps acting in certain ways.

Understanding the precise mechanisms of how music works might actually be a critical step in the evolution of the species or at least attaining peace and prosperity.

In addition to Beethoven's Choral Fantasy Part 2, found in the link in my previous post, the Sikh Music of Bhai Joginder Singh is also very Spiritually uplifting.

Although perhaps not necessarily quite as elevated as Beethoven's music in relation to the Music of the Spheres, It is still nevertheless truly positive (unlike most "New Age" music) and is also a nice break from Classical music.

Excellent thread my friend.

I have always been curious about quantum mechanics and cosmology and large part of my physics reading has been devoted to string theory as of late. Shing Tung-Yau has calculated the specuataed physical shape of 4th to 10th dimensional figures and along with Eugenio Calabi devised the Calabi-Yau Manifolds. Yau's book about the work The Shape of Inner Space is a brilliant piece on the developement and explanation of these intriguing multi-dimensional shapes. You may find similarities between your Star-Convex and other proposed designs that they have calculated.

reply to post by Tamahu


Thanks for posting that.

By any chance do you have any knowledge about how conch shells can be tuned to 16 minor and 7 major chakras or anything else you can share about conch shells?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


And this is precisely what is addressed in the link I've recently posted; in that even though some contemporary musicians have good intentions to combat the stale, reactionary, overly-conservative, conventional morals of this degenerated and closed-minded society, their music lacks a solution to the problem. They are very capable of pointing out the problems of society, yet their music offers no lasting inspiration for positive change.

This is also true about the hippy (and hipster, hip-hop, punk, etc.) movement in general because even though many of them have good intentions, they fail to understand that the Revolutionary Wave that became very strong in the 1960's, has two poles.

Master M:. referred to It as the Dayspring of Youth, and Samael Aun Weor refers to It as the Dionysian Wave.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus


Excellent thread my friend.

I have always been curious about quantum mechanics and cosmology and large part of my physics reading has been devoted to string theory as of late. Shing Tung-Yau has calculated the specuataed physical shape of 4th to 10th dimensional figures and along with Eugenio Calabi devised the Calabi-Yau Manifolds. Yau's book about the work The Shape of Inner Space is a brilliant piece on the developement and explanation of these intriguing multi-dimensional shapes. You may find similarities between your Star-Convex and other proposed designs that they have calculated.

Ah my brilliant Nephew, I have to confess in large part I posted the thread to see who would come up with the most fascinating answers you or Josh Norton, and I certainly have not been dissapointed so far.

Now just because you are my Nephew does not mean I am partial!



But wow hey, what an incredibly fantastic answer! Amazing, stupendous, breathtakingly brilliant, inspiring, laudable, and pure genius.

Josh's answers were nice too!

Sounds like an incredibly interesting and insightful read. There sure seems to be an amazing wealth of information on this topic.

Thanks for joining in my friend.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTravelerAh my brilliant Nephew, I have to confess in large part I posted the thread to see who would come up with the most fascinating answers you or Josh Norton, and I certainly have not been dissapointed so far.

I am glad you did, your threads always seem to inspire me to research a particualr topic as thoroughly as I can, even if I do not respond.

Sounds like an incredibly interesting and insightful read. There sure seems to be an amazing wealth of information on this topic.

I find it quite interesting as Josh's answers meld with string theory quite nicely as it is all about vibrational harmonics of the Calabi-Yau shapes and their vibrations corresponding manifestation as a quantum building block.

Thanks for joining in my friend.

My pleasure.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


It's interesting that music through it's vibrations and mathematics may indeed not only manifest quantum building blocks of not just abstract geometrical shapes but scenes and acts like in a play, perhaps merging primordial elements and matter together using the vibration as a form of energy to rearange the molecules and vibrate them together like a form of glue, while at the same time creating more or less a script or equation for the repeditive use.

This of course would give new rise to the saying "Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art".

It is quite an intriquing subject that much to my delight is prompting both a very interesting intellectual, and spiritual discussion.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It's interesting that music through it's vibrations and mathematics may indeed not only manifest quantum building blocks of not just abstract geometrical shapes but scenes and acts like in a play, perhaps merging primordial elements and matter together using the vibration as a form of energy to rearange the molecules and vibrate them together like a form of glue, while at the same time creating more or less a script or equation for the repeditive use. This of course would give new rise to the saying "Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art".

I found a couple of videos about Chladni patterns. Vibrations are used on a plate that has sand or salt on them and as the frequencies change, so do the patterns. Very sophisticated patterns I might add. I believe more than a few of them are recognizable. The higher the frequencies, the more complex the patterns.

Salt is sprinkled onto a metal plate. The plate is strummed with a violin bow and set into vibration. The salt crystals vibrate about the plate until they settle onto positions of nodes (points of no despacement). Several patterns can be obtained, each associated with a unique frequency of vibrations. These standing wave patterns are known as Chladni patterns, named in honor of a 19th century German physicist who advanced our understanding of acoustics and the physics of music.

www.flickr.com...





I edited to add the below external content. A really cool site that uses these patterns for violin plates.

Chladni patterns show the geometry of the different types of vibration of violin plates. This site has an introductory explanation of modes of vibration and a library of photographs of the Chladni patterns of the bellies and backplates of two different violins (one mass-produced and one hand-made). It also has photographs of plates with regular geometries which assist in understanding the violin modes. For some related history, see Chladni's law. For some Chladni patterns on metal plates, with sound files, see Acoustics of bell plates. To make your own Chladni patters, try this site.

www.phys.unsw.edu.au...

reply to post by jackflap


This isn't another trick to try to get me to say I do see something in those ink blot cards is it?



That's pretty amazing stuff there and a great find, I think it's also very interesting that many musicians have an interest in the occult and the esoteric.

I wonder if it's an accidental byproduct of their music actually perhaps opening some kind of universal door that begins to prompt them to not just communicate through an alternative medium like music, but to start looking into the alternative on whole?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I've only begun to scratch the surface in regard to my knowledge of music, both intuitively and mathematically; but the Conch shell is nonetheless an important symbol in Buddhism and other Religions:

Tibetan Ting-Sha: Sacred Sound for Spiritual Growth by Robert Beer

The Buddhist connection of the Conch to the Gallbladder mentioned in the above link is very interesting, because it is taught that really every organ of the body has a Chakra; and as the speaker of the Gnostic Radio lecture Alchemy and Tetragram (Part 2) points out, the Gallbladder is related to the Hidden Face (related to Lilith) of our psychology.


On the Gallbladder and/or Conch, and the body & chakras in general, see also:

Book of Revelation

Sacrament of Baptism

Sacrament of Penance

Man: The Grand Symbol of the Mysteries by Manly P. Hall 33°

The Five Causes of Illness

Gopala-Tapaniya Upanishad

The Mysteries of the Fire: Kundalini Yoga

Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology and Criminology

reply to post by Tamahu


Thanks for sharing that my friend. I have a relatively recent curiosity in conch shells after discovering some very intriquing things about the one that took up residence in my home a decade ago.

The more I discover about them the more I am intriqued about them.

Some believe they are capable of playing host to dieties and demons and spirits and are almost impossible to beat at Gin Rummy!

While others believe that their musical notes can drive off demons and evil spirits and align the major and minor chakras into personal harmony.

Still others believe that they can actually be used for divining answers to universal questions!

Who would have thought they are useful for so much more than paper weghts and book ends?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have a relatively recent curiosity in conch shells after discovering some very intriquing things about the one that took up residence in my home a decade ago. The more I discover about them the more I am intriqued about them. Some believe they are capable of playing host to dieties and demons and spirits and are almost impossible to beat at Gin Rummy! While others believe that their musical notes can drive off demons and evil spirits and align the major and minor chakras into personal harmony. Still others believe that they can actually be used for divining answers to universal questions! Who would have thought they are useful for so much more than paper weghts and book ends?

I found a quick video that has conch shell music in the back ground. The video is very informative as it delves into the sacred associations that conch shells have.