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POLITICS: Bush Unhappy over Rejected Judges

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posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 04:14 PM
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df1
No i am not off practiceing my double standard somewhere else.But thanx for asking. If you would permit me I would like to do somemore research on some very good points that you have made. When and if I find that I have spoken incorectly I will more than happily apologize. I hope that you will be ok with this. thanks for the link that you posted, and i will get back with you soon
Thankyou




posted on Jul, 24 2004 @ 04:50 PM
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Here it comes
I was Wrong!!! I will admit my ignorance. There was no declaration of war.and on that technicality I was wrong.

On October 2,2002 Congress passed a resoultion authorizing the use of force against Iraq under the war powers resoultion. the vote was 296-133
in the house and 77-23 in the senate. This is a way for congress to not take the blame for declaring war but give the President full support to go though with it.

My info here
en.wikipedia.org...





As you expected with the vote on judges, all that was required is a simple yes or no vote. Unlike the vote on judges, the congressional approval for war is a constitutional requirement and congress lacks the constitutional authority to abdicated power to anyone else. Why are you silent on this issue?


check this out
www.henrymarkholzer.com...


I was supportive for the first round of judges(estrada for 1) before the Liberation.
thanks for ypur patience in waiting for my reply



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by df1

The freaking prisons are full of folks that were put there as a result of victimless laws and mandatory 3 strikes your out laws that do not take into consideration the nature of the crime or the threat risk to society of the individual. And you do not think we have enough people in prison. So I suppose that you have no problem building more prisons with our tax dollars to house and care for more prisoners. I'd much rather see those dollars spent on health care rather than as means to take punitive actions against people that have committed minor offenses.

[edit on 24-7-2004 by df1]

1) 3 strike laws pertain to FELONIES that someone was CONVICTED of...not "victimless crimes"...You obviously havent been a victim of a crime yet...and seen the person who raped your sister...stabbed your brother...etc...get off on probation...I LIVE and WORK in NYC and I see it daily...AND GOD KNOWS WE NEED A 3 STRIKE LAW...You dont mind people who commit 3 index crimes walking the streets?...Hanging out in the park with your kids?....And you call ME the village idiot...wake up and smell the real world...



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 06:44 AM
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And by the way...what kind of "victimless crimes" are you referring to?...Because Ive yet to hear one case where someones been put away for life for committing 3 "victimless" crimes...


df1

posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by df1
Send the village of Crawford back its missing idiot, we can't afford 4 more years of this type of thinking.


Originally posted by BasementAddix
And you call ME the village idiot...

I called you nothing of the kind. Unless you are telling me that you are the president of the US, then I will freely admit to calling you an idiot.
.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by df1
The freaking prisons are full of folks that were put there as a result of victimless laws and mandatory 3 strikes your out laws that do not take into consideration the nature of the crime or the threat risk to society


Get a grip, The people that get 3 Strikes had at least 2 prior (usually violent crime) felonies. You can cry all you want about the guy going up for life for shoplifting. He or she had 2 other chances prior yet still committed a crime. Its not like he lifed a candy bar 3 times and now he is getting life. Please


df1

posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
Get a grip...

The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 686 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by the Cayman Islands (664), Russia (638), Belarus (554), Kazakhstan (522), urkmenistan (489), Belize (459), Bahamas (447), Suriname (437) and Dominica (420). Prison Stats

I believe hat it you who should get a grip.

Given that the US has the highest per capita prison population rate in world it is obvious that the strategies that the US is using to reduce crime are not working. What you are suggesting is that the US continue to persue a failed policy by building more prisons.

Explain to me why we should continue doing what is proven not to work?
.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by df1
Given that the US has the highest per capita prison population rate in world it is obvious that the strategies that the US is using to reduce crime are not working. What you are suggesting is that the US continue to persue a failed policy by building more prisons.


Since you feel it is a filed system, please show me a sytem that works and where it is implamented? Not some touch feely social thery that has no real application in the real world. Show me hard data. Untill then do the crime, serve the time....

In fact the prisoners themselves may pay for the prisons:
www.csmonitor.com...


[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]


df1

posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by df1
Explain to me why we should continue doing what is proven not to work?


Since you feel it is a filed system, please show me a sytem that works and where it is implamented? Not some touch feely social thery that has no real application in the real world. Show me hard data. Untill then do the crime, serve the time...

I do not think it is a failed system, I have shown you hard data that the current system is a failed system. This is not a touchy feely theory, it is the cold hard facts. Prison Stats. Yet all you were able to muster is an old worn out cliche, "do the crime, serve the time". Much like the judges that bush nominated, you are backrupt of ideas other than continuing to build more prisons. Your reason we should continue down this road is "just because", obviously you can't handle the facts, which is why you feign that none were presented.

And the idea of making prisoners pay for their incarceration as expressed in the christian science magazine is equally as foolish, as most prisoners are poor. Also continuing to take punitive civil actions against prisoners after they have paid for the crime is another ignorant receipt for disaster. Seizing their assets and giving them no reason to live other than continued punishment will surely result in more crimes and more prisons.

I pity the world in which you desire to live. It is soulless and lacks all human compassion which is not surprising coming from a fundamentalist atheist.
.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by df1
I do not think it is a failed system, I have shown you hard data that the current system is a failed system. This is not a touchy feely theory, it is the cold hard facts.


Hello check out you what you just said. You just said you feel the current system is failed. What cold hard facts? The fact that prisons are filled? The link proves the prisons are filled. Again So What?

Instead of providing a solution for the crowded prisons you commit a fallacy of logic by attacking the speaker. Nice, you can make all the personal attacks you want. Its typical. Quick to complain, slow to offer a real solution. Once again I ask. What is your solution to the problem? And please be more immaginative that "Just let them out"


And the idea of making prisoners pay for their incarceration as expressed in the christian science magazine is equally as foolish, as most prisoners are poor.


Why not if they are poor, they can take a job in one of the many prison industries to pay off thier debt. Committing a crime should not entitle you to free room and board. Certainly Martha can afford to pay for her stay.


I pity the world in which you desire to live. It is soulless and lacks all human compassion which is not surprising coming from a fundamentalist atheist.


In your delightful closing statement you repeat your logic error above and add another one "Prejudicial Language" To help you out I have added a link regarding "Fallicies of Logic"
www.intrepidsoftware.com...

But really get a grip here, we are talking about criminals here. Were is you compassion for the victems of the crimes. My religious choice has little to do with my ideas and views of punisment. If you want I can quote you chapter and verse from the bible. Rest assured its not as warm a fuzzy as you seem to think


df1

posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 01:29 PM
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The only logical fallacies are the phantom victims that your arguement repeatedly conjures up in support of an indefensible system. So stop beating your chest about victims rights, it is not factual, in a vast number of incarcerations their is no victim except for the American citizen that must pay for unjustified and immoral incarceration. These fundamentalist judges, nominated by bush, and you just want more of the same. Rather than being agents of positive change to intelligently correct the problem you prefer to continue down the same failed path. You want more numbers, there you have them.


A Victimless Crime, also known as Consensual Crime, is any activity which does not physically harm a person or property, or to which was in fact consented, and is currently illegal if based on statutory laws! In Peter McWilliams book, Aint Nobodys Business If You Do, is the statement: As an adult, you should be allowed to do with your person and property whatever you choose, as long as you dont physically harm the person or property of another.

More than 350,000 people are currently in US jails for consensual crimes. An additional 1,500,000 are on parole or probation for such crimes. More than 4 million will be arrested in any year for committing such crimes. Our governments will spend more than $50 billion in punishing people for crimes that do not physically harm the person or property of another. An additional $150 billion will be lost in tax revenue...

McWilliams also asserts than correcting the injustice of victimeless crime laws will provide the following benefits:
Reduce personal income tax by one-third, Create 6 million tax-paying jobs, and stimulate the economy, Reduce real crime by freeing the police to catch real criminals, Unburden the court system, Double available jail space, Free federal authorities to track down polluters, terrorists, consumer frauds, and [Bush-style] savings-and-loan embezzlers, and Create an environment in which people can live their own lives in their own way, free to experiment, free to fail, and free to succeed.
www.halexandria.org...


Whether you are a fundamentalist christian, a fundamentalist muslim or a fundamentalist atheist; it makes no difference, all are cut from the same cloth, bearing only a slightly different pattern. My comment was not to disparage your atheism, it was intended to disparage the intolerance of your fundamentalisms. So if the shoe fits, wear it.

The democrats have done a fine job of keeping these fascist judges out of office and I salute them for their excellent work.
This is my last post on this topic, some minds are closed so tightly that it is not possible to even pry them open.
.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Good Job! Way to retreat without ever having to back up your baseless claims. You must be so proud!

Again you keep quoting numbers but don't offer a solution. Typical IMHO, point the finger but don't offer anything in the way of ideas or solutions.



[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]


df1

posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 10:41 PM
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More than 350,000 people are currently in US jails for consensual crimes....
www.halexandria.org...


I gave you 350,000 solutions. Set these folks free and stop prosecuting future victimless crimes. Prison problem solved. This starts by keeping intolerant fundamentalist judges out of office that wish to inflict their morals on others by putting them behind bars.

God bless
.



posted on Jul, 25 2004 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by df1
More than 350,000 people are currently in US jails for consensual crimes....
www.halexandria.org...


Really you are a bit much. That web page, was makingsome good points up until the point that it beagan to debate if CHILD PORN was a victemless crime. Nice try. By your logic, IF I get a DUI, but I did not hurt anybody should I just be set free after I sober up?

The math on the page is also suspect. How exactly will releasing them creat 6 million jobs and stimulate the economy. If 4 million are arrested and 350,000 are in jail, wont that create 350,000 jobs? and really when is the last time a hooker outside of Nevada payed taxes on her actual income. However, IMHO, Nevada has the setup correct. Regulated and safe. Not to mention it generates tax income for the state. The 1.5 million on probation should already be working. 6 million jobs indeed.....

And really who goes to jail for a seatbelt violation?

Having seen you rail on drug laws is this just another route to legalizing drugs?

[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 25-7-2004 by FredT]



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