A Challenge to Chemtrail Debunkers

Are you afraid to answer the question, because you tap danced around it and then started talking about members signatures? Way to go..

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Are you absolutely blind? Nice job yourself, fabricating another absolute lie.

I already the answered the question I did not dance around it. You should get your eyes checked.

Transparent is a relative term and it applies only to full scale Geoengineering. It does not apply to research and development.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

You are right there isn't anything to debunk, because to debunk something it actually needs to be real and not just being researched.

Your opinion really makes no sense whatsoever. Your're saying that if something is being researched it isn't real?

Way to go genius..........

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Your opinion really makes no sense whatsoever. Your're saying that if something is being researched it isn't real? Way to go genius..........

Well then just sitting around talking about how one would do with weaponizing geoengineering would by your way of thinking must mean it is real.
Way to go genius

One other thing I am sure you know what research means but here let me refresh your memory...

1 re·search noun ri-ˈsərch, ˈrē-ˌ Definition of RESEARCH

1: careful or diligent search
2: studious inquiry or examination; especially : investigation or experimentation aimed at the discovery and interpretation of facts, revision of accepted theories or laws in the light of new facts, or practical application of such new or revised theories or laws
3: the collecting of information about a particular subject

2 research verb

Definition of RESEARCH
transitive verb
1
: to search or investigate exhaustively
2
: to do research for
intransitive verb
: to engage in research

www.merriam-webster.com...

Doing research on a subject like geoengineering does not prove they exist, it means they are trying to find how it would work and what is the best way to implement it.It does not mean they are using it in the present,because you have been shown it is only a theory in which you have stated yourself this fact.Please don't try to say I am lying because you know as well as others you made the statement. So now I have to ask which is it, geoengineering real or a theory. Think about it before you answer. You seem to not know which side of the proverbial fence you reside on. First it is a theory now it is being used as a weapon of mass destruction. Just can't make up your mind again I see.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Chemtrails create drought in some areas and flooding in others. They contaminate the soil, the air and water. People have been getting tested and are finding high levels of barium in their hair and their children's hair.

Please provide a link to where you found this info.

The climate change - geoengineering - chemtrail conspiracy runs deep and has global implications and connections to weather warfare by Governments and control of the food supply by Monsanto.

Yet again you post a video that shows Mr Caldeira stating that the trails are ordinary contrails and not part of a geoengineering project that he says doesn't exist. Watch from 2:50 on and you will hear it straight from your sources mouth. By the way there is nothing in this video that mentions anything about geoengineering as a weapon of mass destruction. If you are trying to say the meeting they had is your proof then....

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

There's been a dramatic increase in asthma, alzheimer's and now Morgellons disease which was once thought to be a fake disease and is now a fact and being studied by the CDC.

Any links for this info?

Here is a link to some info that you may want to read...

www.morgellons.org...

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Here's some of the info you requested

Morgellons
www.cdc.gov...

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has received numerous inquiries about an unexplained dermopathy that some refer to as “Morgellons.” Because you and your members may have received such questions also, we would like to update you about our activities to investigate this condition.

CDC To Launch Study on Unexplained Illness
January 16, 2008
www.cdc.gov...

Morgellons

www.cdc.gov...

We do not know the cause of this condition or whether this condition is new. CDC has received an increased number of reports from persons who describe similar symptoms; therefore, we are conducting an investigation to learn more about this unexplained dermopathy.

www.youtube.com...

This video leans toward violent solutions, which I don't endorse, it does however express the outrage many of us are feeling. The portion at the end of this video, with "welcome to the jungle" background music, does show some attachments to planes I had never seen, and some very good examples of "chemtrails"....these are not "normal" con-trails.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


And that is why the chemtrail hoax is dangerous - people getting strong opinions about something that there is not one single piece of verifiably evidence for, and yes, sooner or later someone is going to "act" to "prevent it happening" or something stupid like that.

All for nothing

Perhaps if someone gets killed all you beleivers will be happy with the publicity? Even thought it'll be the end of your little church of the chemtrail!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

there is not one single piece of verifiably evidence

There is a mountain of evidence that you continue to ignore. Your claims that there is no evidence is the only hoax that keeps being perpetuated in this debate.

www.srmgi.org...

3. Small field trials: field trials involving activities (including release of materials to the environment) of a magnitude, spatial scale and temporal duration that lead to measurable environmental effects of a magnitude considered to be insignificant (below "de minimis" levels,).
4. Large field trials: field trials involving activities (including release of materials to the environment) of a magnitude, spatial scale and temporal duration that lead to measurable and significant environmental effects (ie exceed the de minimis levels), but that are not of a sufficient magnitude, spatial scale or duration to be considered to be deployment.
5. Deployment: activities (including release of materials to the environment) leading to environmental effects of a sufficient magnitude, spatial scale or duration to affect climate significantly

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


And so what?

This document categorises areas for FURTHER STUDY - are you saying that these field trials THAT MIGHT HAPPEN ONE DAY are evidence that commercial airliners have been spraying something for eth last 15 years?

Are you suggesting that these field trials, that are not so largeg as to have any effect, are what peole have been thinking of as chemtrails for the last 15 years??

Or are you now saying that here have never actually been any chemtrails, but you are concerned that they might happen if these field trials go ahead??

As expected you have put up evidence of limited future research possibilities as if it were evidence of chemtrails worldwide for eth last 15 years! It's your usual trick of falisifying information - present something that is true as if it was something slightkly different in order to support your hoax.

And yes it is a hoax - when you knowingly falsify the relevance of evidence like this then it is deliberate, and that qualifies it as a hoax on your part - trying to hoodwink peole when you know it's not true.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by MountainLaurel

 

And that is why the chemtrail hoax is dangerous - people getting strong opinions about something that there is not one single piece of verifiably evidence for, and yes, sooner or later someone is going to "act" to "prevent it happening" or something stupid like that.

All for nothing

Perhaps if someone gets killed all you beleivers will be happy with the publicity? Even thought it'll be the end of your little church of the chemtrail!

edit on 18-4-2011 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

Please believe me when I tell you the last thing I want is anyone to be harmed or killed. I actually started another thread trying to rally PEACEFUL protest against what I and many others have come to believe is a government so corrupt, and in bed with the mandate of the elite, who now effectively own our country, and see the people as some sort of plight that needs to be eradicated.

I try my best to not be ruled by fear or mis-information, but in light of everything happening around us, from war,geo-engineering/chemtrails, monsanto and genetically modified food, HAARP, the potential collapse of the economy....hell, it makes the poison in my shampoo and control of MSM seem minor.....

I don't know what the right thing to do is anymore, but I do know if I don't at least try and educate myself and others and try and effect change, my conscience can't live with it........ I do, like yourself, worry though that going off half cocked, especially in any kind of violent way, would lead to nothing good......and everything bad.

Some might say at this point it's about spiritual growth and clearing our own karma........
anyways, don't mean to rant, I appreciate this forum, being new to ATS, it helps to process and discuss these contraversial issues with others.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Never have I seen such a poor example of reading comprehension as you have just displayed with your ignorant interpretation of that study. All the words you emphasized in CAPS are just your opinion and lack of the ability to understand what you're reading. You've failed miserably. Try reading it again.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


Right - well show me my errors and I shall "mea culpa" as appropriate.

Of course I've said I'll do this on previous occasions too when you've accused me of misrepresenting and even lying, but you've never actually fronted up with what it is I've supposedly misread.

So I'm not altogether hopefull this time......

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I'm not here to argue with you. Like I said before you can think what you want.

I've pointed out your lies and misrepresentation of the facts by posting the evidence.

I'm satisfied with people's common sense to see right through your silly arguments.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

I'm not here to argue with you.

I know that - we're quiet used to you not engaging with the truth, not answering straight questions, making assertions that everyone else is a liar, disinfo agent, etc., without ever actually bringing together a meaningful case to show what it is you believe.

Indeed what you believe keeps changing. At one point it was all persistant contrails are chemtrails, then it was "except for passenger aircraft" - but you never explained how or why cargo versions of passenger a/c were any different.

I think it might have been "only military aircraft" atone point.

Now it appears to be that chemtrails never existed yet, but you'er worried they might in the future.

It's kind of hard to keep up!

And in the mean time you keep saying I am a liar, but you can't identify any lie I make.

You keep saying I misrepresent stuff, but you can't show what.

Yes let us allow pople to make up their minds based on that!

OTOH it would be remis not to point out that you don't actually care whether you post truthful evidence anyway - www.abovetopsecret.com...

(and the post where you put the photo up as "evidence" is at www.abovetopsecret.com...)

And of course your infamous manufacturing of evidence at www.abovetopsecret.com... - presenting the "HAARP patent" and the "Contrail burner" patent together as if they were linked.

Jsut to keep the record straight......

Star and Flag

I say the same thing. Think outside the box.

There is a God-Give me proof of existence ?
Millions see UFO's-Give me proof they exist ?
Chemtrails or Contrails- Show me proof ?
Governments Lie- Proven Fact

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

OTOH it would be remis not to point out that you don't actually care whether you post truthful evidence anyway - www.abovetopsecret.com...

(and the post where you put the photo up as "evidence" is at www.abovetopsecret.com...)

And of course your infamous manufacturing of evidence at www.abovetopsecret.com... - presenting the "HAARP patent" and the "Contrail burner" patent together as if they were linked.

The photo is still in evidence and you haven't proven that it's not a real photo of chemtrail tanks.

The only one manufacturing evidence is you. You're doing it with the above quote again. Lying about what I said and misrepresenting the content and context.

So one of the arguments the debunkers make is that the "chemmies" don't understand basic meteorology. Ran into this interview with Scott Stevens from 3/20/10. Well worth the 54 minutes it takes to listen to it.

(hour long interview right click and save as) www.cosmicpenguin.com...

www.cosmicpenguin.com...

This is from the wiki entry on him (the entire wiki entry)

He gave his final broadcast on Thursday, September 22, 2005, to work full-time on his unique theories of the source of extreme weather events. He has become one of the largest proponents of a theory that events such as major hurricanes, such as Katrina, are actually being created by Japanese scientists (Yakuza weather engineering) using advanced weather modification technology obtained from the USSR during the cold war,[1][2] or by American deep black project scientists as countermeasures. On Stevens' website, he cites the research of Tom Bearden, another non-mainstream-science proponent. The views of Stevens and Bearden are far from the mainstream and have been described as "laughable".[3] The vast majority of meteorologists believe that existing scientific theories explain major weather events adequately. Weather control is a legitimate scientific study, with hundreds of scientists studying various methods for modifying weather patterns and several private companies selling methods to increase the probability of rain over certain areas. However, no mainstream published research has suggested the near-term possibility of the type of control over weather suggested by Stevens and Bearden.

en.wikipedia.org...

They only site 3 things (2 are the same article and the 3rd, from Fox, is essentially the same article)

# ^ "Cold-war device used to cause Katrina?". USA Today. 20 September 2005. www.usatoday.com... Retrieved 2009-02-08.
# ^ "Out There: Man-Made Hurricanes?". Fox News. 21 September 2005. www.foxnews.com... Retrieved 2009-02-08.
# ^ "Cold-war device used to cause Katrina?". USA Today. 20 September 2005. www.usatoday.com... Retrieved 2009-02-08.

This is an interesting excerpt to see how these things are spun-the writer of the wiki article pulls out this from the USA Today article

The views of Stevens and Bearden are far from the mainstream and have been described as "laughable".[3]

and yet they completely leave out the quote from his stations general manager, also in the article:

Bill Fouch, KPVI's general manager, compared Stevens' musings to political or religious beliefs that journalists suppress on the job. "He doesn't talk about it on his weathercast," Fouch said. "He's very knowledgeable about weather, and he's very popular."

A little self-written bio from his first website:

twoday.net...

Hi, I’m Scott Stevens. Weather has been a fascination of mine since I started keeping a weather diary for a Scouting merit badge. That was July 1978. I had to watch the local weathercast, log the forecast, and the daily conditions for 30 days. By that months end… I was hooked! I was 12. I earned the weather merit badge, then later my Eagle. Within the year I was reporting our small town’s daily conditions to the area TV stations. That became my in. By my senior year in high school I was working at KIFI TV the NBC affiliate in Idaho Falls as a studio camera operator. I soon was a photographer for the news department, as time allowed. During that year I figured out that I would be doing weather for a career even though my first weather casting takes stank! So much so I thought I’d end up in the business school. I chose the University of Kansas to study meteorology… During my sophomore year at KU I auditioned for one of three openings at KTKA in Topeka… I was not yet good enough. I was 20, a little young still, and scared. Five months later I received a call back, this time I landed a job that would cost me twice as much to keep as it paid. I had to buy a car. Ah, the glory of TV! But 13 months later I had gone from a 2-hour/5 day a week job to the main guy. It felt good. Not long afterwards a phone call came from Omaha Nebraska, and RFD-TV. It was a start-up satellite delivered agricultural focused news and weather station and a very tough job in many aspects.

This is a guy that has been really into weather for a really long time. Mainstream media dismisses him as a kook, but of course they would. You can't argue that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to weather though.

His current website is weatherwars.info...

reply to post by coyotepoet


Very interesting and informative. Thanks

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/56e8d0e1d48b.gif[/atsimg]

Here's some documents on weather modification that I found

Tracers
www.arb.ca.gov...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by coyotepoet

IDAHO FALLS, Idaho (AP) — An Idaho weatherman says Japan's Yakuza mafia used a Russian-made electromagnetic generator to cause Hurricane Katrina in a bid to avenge itself for the Hiroshima atom bomb attack — and that this technology will soon be wielded again to hit another U.S. city. Meteorologist Scott Stevens, a nine-year veteran of KPVI-TV in Pocatello, said he was struggling to forecast weather patterns starting in 1998 when he discovered the theory on the Internet. It's now detailed on Stevens' website, www.weatherwars.info, the Idaho Falls Post Register reported.

www.usatoday.com...

Funny that this was also mentioned in the article..

Stevens, who is among several people to offer alternative and generally discounted theories for the storm that flooded New Orleans, says a little-known oversight in physical laws makes it possible to create and control storms — especially if you're armed with the Cold War-era weapon said to have been made by the Russians in 1976.
Stevens became convinced of the existence of the Russian device when he observed an unusual Montana cold front in 2004. "I just got sick to my stomach because these clouds were unnatural and that meant they had (the machine) on all the time," Stevens said. "I was left trying to forecast the intent of some organization rather than the weather of this planet."
Stevens said oddities in Hurricane Katrina storm patterns underpin his theory. And, according to his website, so does the fact that Katrina and Ivan — the name given to a destructive hurricane that hit Florida in September 2004 — both sound Russian.

Scientists discount Stevens' claims as ludicrous and say they run contrary to the second law of thermodynamics, that energy can be neither created nor destroyed. "I have been doing hurricane research for the better part of 20 years now, and there was nothing unusual to me about any of the satellite imagery of Katrina," said Rob Young, a hurricane expert at Western Carolina University in Cullowhee, N.C. "It's laughable to think it could have been manmade."

www.usatoday.com...

So now Russia and the Japanese Yakuza are responsible for hurricanes because their names sound Russian.

I also see he has a video from Tanker Enemy on his site well that's all that needs to be said.