Lets try to get this fact clear - Amateur Astronomers Spotting NIBIRU

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by AlexDJ
...
So what are you trying to explain here¡?¡?

The question is actually what are people like you trying to do? You don't present any sort of evidence but claim "it is impossible" anyway, despite the evidence being presented.

It was people like you who a few years ago, and even recently were saying "it is impossible for a dead/failed star to be in our Solar System, and we know every planet that exists in the Solar system, "otherwise we would see it by now". But instead the evidence and what many scientists are saying has discredited the people who claimed for a long time "it is impossible".

As i said, I do not have all the answers, but the evidence points to at least a dead star, and a large planet, possibly Earth size existing. The planet could be within 70AU, the dead star could be anywhere in the Oort cloud, and the Oort cloud is big, but it's orbit could very well make it come close enough to cause devastation, and the planet orbiting it would come even closer.

As for you saying every planet should be affected?... THEY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED, and are still affected. But people like you kept claiming, "they are not related" when every planet, and moon with an atmosphere in the Solar System has been undergoing dramatic Climate Change, and in the form of warming as Earth has been undergoing. Even Pluto, which since 1989 was orbiting away from the Sun was getting warmer the farther away from the Sun it got.

Here is a thread I posted in 2006 about this.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 30-3-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

once home i will try to find any documentary related to Father Malachi Martin...if there is none i will look at wiki etc..and do myself a short YT movie

he must have been a great man to impress you so much since you are quiet intelligent

reply to post by nenothtu


your review was excellent

sometimes i wonder if we might get caught of guard since we know very little about our universe..

an object might be really small and still has a lot of mass resulting in an enormous gravitational pull..

a dead collapsed star will have a 100 thousand million times the gravity of earth...does anybody knows which is the largest ever found Gravity of Planet?

reply to post by heineken


The largest confirmed gravity for a planet would be the gravity of Jupiter, which is slightly more than 2.5X Earth's gravity at the equator, on the "surface". Since Jupiter doesn't really have a "surface" the cloud tops are taken as a "surface" for purposes of measurements.

With that said, gravity is a rather involved subject. Jupiter has far more mass than the Earth, and so it also has far more inherent gravity, as a function of that mass, and the 2.5X figure is somewhat misleading, although technically accurate. Gravity, like light, falls off the further one gets away from the center of a body. Gravity acts as if it were concentrated into a point at the exact center of an object. Jupiter is 11.2 times the Earth's radius, and if one were at the distance of the Earth's radius from the center of Jupiter, the gravity would be crushing - not to mention the weight of all that atmosphere bearing down on you, also subject to that same gravity. The reason it is only 2.5X the Earth's gravity is that it is measured from 11.2 times farther away from the center.

As I recall, gravity, like light, obeys the inverse square law for weakening over distance ( 1/d^2), so if you double the distance, it's only 1/4 of the original strength (1/2^2 = 1/4), if you triple the distance it falls to 1/9, quadruple the distance and it falls to 1/16, etc. Since the figure of 2.5X Earth's gravity is measured at 11.2X the distance, we can calculate backwards and see the at the Earth's radius from Jupiter's center, it would be 125 times stronger than that measurement, or about 314 times the Earth's gravity.

Gravitational interactions between two bodies are further complicated by the fact that each has it's own gravity, and so both are acting gravitationally on each other. Introducing a third body into that mix, along with it's attendant gravity, makes my head spin. In interactions between the Sun and another large body, the Earth's gravity becomes negligible, and so can be largely ignored. It then becomes a problem of calculating the gravity fields and their interactions between the two large bodies, and finding the place of the smaller body within that field.

The Milky Way galaxy has something between 100 billion and 400 billion solar masses, and all that gravity, as a unit for the Milky Way, acts as if it's concentrated at the center of the galaxy. The thing is, that point is roughly 25,000 light years away from us. The sun is MUCH closer, and so it's individual gravity tends to override the entire galaxy's gravity at the point of Earth, keeping us bound to the solar system rather than taking a crash course towards the center of the Milky Way.

For a Large body to over ride the sun's gravity at Earth, it would either have to be VERY large, approaching solar mass, OR be VERY close - close enough to override the sun's gravity on us - OR both. In 4.6 billion years, that has not happened, which is why Earth still orbits the sun, even after all that time.

to be honest im getting tired of seeing these threads about 2012 with still no evidence at all

reply to post by nenothtu


many thanks for the clarifications!!

yesterday i was watching Wonders of the Universe - Falling, and they simulated the gravity on some Alien world 6 or 8 times that of Earth..his face was literally being pulled down and he couldnt lift his arm..

this part..



i have to review this documentary since it was bed time and i was sleepy all the way :/

reply to post by heineken


The guy in that video could be a twin for the guy in your avatar.

I think it gave a pretty good cursory overview of gravity and how it works. The only error I saw was where he said that Jupiter has "over 1300 times the mass of the Earth". Jupiter has slightly under 318 times that mass of the Earth, but 1388 times the volume, meaning it's density is quite a bit lower than that of the Earth. (about 1.4 gm/cm^3 vs. around 5.2 gm/cm^3).

Just as an aside, Saturn is actually less dense than water, so that an average chunk of Saturn, if dropped into water on Earth, would float on the surface of it. If there were an ocean anywhere big enough to contain the entire planet, Saturn would float like a boat.

reply to post by nenothtu

Just as an aside, Saturn is actually less dense than water, so that an average chunk of Saturn, if dropped into water on Earth, would float on the surface of it. If there were an ocean anywhere big enough to contain the entire planet, Saturn would float like a boat.

amazing stuff ^^


the guy in the avatar is Liam Gallagher - Oasis...a small gift for you



music and science goes hand in hand imo...it drives me either forward or backwards and has an effect on my mood more than gravity thats y i have..

If you are in a bad mood change music on top of my avatar


back to serious stuff...

proving tat guy wring is quiet amazing..since he is recognized as the new Carl Sagan..

Brian Edward Cox, OBE, (born 3 March 1968) is a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow and a professor at the University of Manchester. He is a member of the High Energy Physics group at the University of Manchester, and works on the ATLAS experiment at the Large Hadron Collider, CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. He is also working on the R&D project of the FP420 experiment in an international collaboration to upgrade the ATLAS and the CMS experiment by installing additional, smaller detectors at a distance of 420 metres (1,380 ft) from the interaction points of the main experiments.[1]

just why i thought you didnt know

anyways..

he seems into music too something i did not know..

He already had previous experience of the music industry in the 1980s as keyboard player with the band Dare.

en.wikipedia.org...(physicist)

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by AlexDJ
...
So what are you trying to explain here¡?¡?

The question is actually what are people like you trying to do? You don't present any sort of evidence but claim "it is impossible" anyway, despite the evidence being presented.

It was people like you who a few years ago, and even recently were saying "it is impossible for a dead/failed star to be in our Solar System, and we know every planet that exists in the Solar system, "otherwise we would see it by now". But instead the evidence and what many scientists are saying has discredited the people who claimed for a long time "it is impossible".

As i said, I do not have all the answers, but the evidence points to at least a dead star, and a large planet, possibly Earth size existing. The planet could be within 70AU, the dead star could be anywhere in the Oort cloud, and the Oort cloud is big, but it's orbit could very well make it come close enough to cause devastation, and the planet orbiting it would come even closer.

As for you saying every planet should be affected?... THEY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED, and are still affected. But people like you kept claiming, "they are not related" when every planet, and moon with an atmosphere in the Solar System has been undergoing dramatic Climate Change, and in the form of warming as Earth has been undergoing. Even Pluto, which since 1989 was orbiting away from the Sun was getting warmer the farther away from the Sun it got.

Here is a thread I posted in 2006 about this.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 30-3-2011 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

The best evidence is that our planet have life like i said, Have you read what i have been posting??? i guess not sir. A mass the size of a Brown Dwarf entering our solar system would create great destruction on all the planets, just by his size and by the magnetic field, and again you have not read quiet well, that yes there could be a brown dwarf or a death star outside our solar system, outisde the Oort Cloud and been undetected I said YES, there could be, but saying that this Brown dwarf actually enters our solar system in a cycle of 3600 years (like many people of niburu believes) and still the earth survives and develop life that something let say improbable, now if you tell me this object is much much smaller than a brown dwarf, a planet let say 3 or 4 times the size of earth then maybe i would tell you...Yes, but if the object is a brown dwarf doing all that i would tell no.

Originally posted by heineken
reply to post by nenothtu

 

music and science goes hand in hand imo...it drives me either forward or backwards and has an effect on my mood more than gravity thats y i have..

If you are in a bad mood change music on top of my avatar

There's no doubt in my mind about that. I personally am a nobody, and never did anything at all with what I learned in school out in the real world. My first wife, by contrast, is a PhD Psychologist. When she was at university studying, the grad students used to do certain Frankenstein-ish experiments in the lab that frankly caused me to worry about their own stability more than once. I used to go hang out in the labs with them to try to figure out what they were up to, and recall that they ALWAYS had music playing on a battered old stereo/ tape deck that had a bent up wire coat hanger for an antenna.

I can't even call them "mad" scientists because I never caught them being angry, only methodical. That may have made it all the more chilling...

proving tat guy wring is quiet amazing..since he is recognized as the new Carl Sagan..

I didn't actually "prove him wrong", I only pointed out an instant of confusion he had. His figures were right, just misapplied to mass rather than volume. Stuff happens, and even super scientists have an off moment now and then.

Brian Edward Cox, OBE, (born 3 March 1968) is a British particle physicist, a Royal Society University Research Fellow and a professor at the University of Manchester. He is a member of the High Energy Physics group at the University of Manchester, and works on the ATLAS experiment at the Large Hadron Collider, CERN, near Geneva, Switzerland. He is also working on the R&D project of the FP420 experiment in an international collaboration to upgrade the ATLAS and the CMS experiment by installing additional, smaller detectors at a distance of 420 metres (1,380 ft) from the interaction points of the main experiments.[1]

just why i thought you didnt know

I've not kept up with the personalities, and didn't know who he was. I've barely kept up with new discoveries, and even then only in a very limited field.

So much universe, so little time. maybe in an individual's end of days, he gets to wander the stars and find all the answers he couldn't find while Earth bound...

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by bigrex

 

Define large telescope?

And looking for what?

A 12" Dob is perfectly acceptable to use in the daytime for astronomy. The more light they can gather the better.

Here's what I call a "large telescope":

Three College Observatory

That's the telescope for the university I attended. In the photo on the right, of the 'scope itself, the guy standing on the left (the taller one) is Dr. Steve Danford, my advisor while I was in attendance there. It's got a 30" mirror, does a heck of a job as a "light bucket"!

"WARNING
NEVER USE A MEADE®
TELESCOPE TO LOOK AT THE SUN!
LOOKING AT OR NEAR THE SUN WILL CAUSE INSTANT AND
IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE TO YOUR EYE. EYE DAMAGE IS OFTEN
PAINLESS, SO THERE IS NO WARNING TO THE OBSERVER THAT
DAMAGE HAS OCCURRED UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE. DO NOT POINT
THE TELESCOPE OR ITS VIEWFINDER AT OR NEAR THE SUN. DO
NOT LOOK THROUGH THE TELESCOPE OR ITS VIEWFINDER AS IT
IS MOVING. CHILDREN SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE ADULT
SUPERVISION WHILE OBSERVING".

Source

It sounds like this Nirbiru is supposedly near the sun, so I quoted the warning above, and it was already in all caps, so it's not my intent to yell, I suppose you might be able to use it in daylight, provided you go nowhere near the sun. For terrestrial observation of course it is pretty clumsy since the image is upside down and reversed.

And a 12" dob would be considered by many to be on the larger side of telescopes, for amateur use that is, yes some have 16"+ diameter mirrored reflectors but 12" is still a good sized beast, I used to own one (Orion XT12), using it on the moon alone without a filter is blinding enough.

Sundog Mystery revealed by NASA:
SDO Sundog Mystery

take a look on the movie:
MOV

reply to post by AlexDJ


Yes, I read what you keep saying, but you keep trying to say it must be outside the Solar System, when that is not what the evidence suggest. The evidence suggest it is PART of our Solar System, but it's orbit could bring it closer out of the Oort cloud, and that is still far enough not to erase all life from Earth, but could still cause devastation as ancient accounts say, and as recent scientific evidence points out.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e7a026f2e28d.png[/atsimg]

Above graph can be found at.
Link

If you take a look at the above you can see Sedna seems to be orbiting our sun, and something else, and whatever that is, is not deep inside the Oort cloud, but it is outside of it.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

If you take a look at the above you can see Sedna seems to be orbiting our sun, and something else, and whatever that is, is not deep inside the Oort cloud, but it is outside of it.

The layout of this illustration is poor, so I can understand how you might make that mistake. Although Sedna's orbit is extremely elliptical it clearly lies well within the Oort Cloud. It cannot be orbiting anything other than the Sun, as the Sun is at the focus of the ellipse.

reply to post by heineken


We go around the sun once a year, for that to be true this planet x would have to be playing hide and seek with us. Some say planet x is coming from behind the sun, so what about in 6 months when we are behind the sun? Then you are pretty much looking where we are now and it was not here either. If it is real it will not be near the sun unless there is evidence and the whole world can observe it.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e7a026f2e28d.png[/atsimg]

Above graph can be found at.
Link

If you take a look at the above you can see Sedna seems to be orbiting our sun, and something else, and whatever that is, is not deep inside the Oort cloud, but it is outside of it.

I couldn't find the "something else". Could you elaborate on that? I even went and downloaded the original, in full resolution of 2499x2499, and still couldn't find the "something else". Are you saying that Sedna orbits the sun, and "something else" does too? That's a given - there are planets, comets, asteroids, all sorts of stuff orbiting the sun.

Or are you trying to say that Sedna is orbiting 2 different objects? I assumed that you meant that, but couldn't find any evidence in that graphic of the "other object". If it were there, given the orbit shown, it would have to be fairly near the sun in order for Sedna's orbit to have a focus at the barycenter between the two. That would mean that all the rest of that planets had to be orbiting that same barycenter, and we'd be able to see the other object, since it would have to be inside the orbit of Mercury, and be co-orbital with the sun.

I am an amateur astronomer. I have been combing the night skies for months now...I have seen nothing unusual.
I fitted my scope with a solar filter..nothing..I will keep watching, if I find something I will post the right ascension and declination coordinates.

Mods, feel free to delete this if you feel it's completely off topic.

So, yeah. I read through this whole thing. I feel like I just gave birth to an astronomer.

I've been lurking on this site for about a year now, and only started posting recently. I belong to a couple of other forums. I have one simple rule that keeps me from starting things like this. I don't draw any concrete conclusions or start threads on fields in which I am not an expert. You're never going to see me start a thread on anything other than survival, emergency medicine, or military operations, unless it is to ask a sincere question. Once the question is answered by people who know more than me, I give them a sincere thank you, and I'm on my way.

Just food for thought for the OP.

hello ATS i have followed this site for the last 3-4 months (made my account today after reading this thread) ... aand i have seen many a nibiru / planet x / tyche thread....
and there is always 1 guy who says "amateur astronomers would have seen this thing by now"...

which is a very good point why cant it be seen by the many astronomers the world over?

1 argument is that it does not exist

the other is that it is a brown dwarf and they are invisible to 99.9% of telescopes because they absorb light and emit none of there own but they give off heat what can be seen in infra red spectrum with an IR telescope(if this is true then only a handfull of amateurs own these yet alot more pros)
also you would have to know where it is/its orbit to spot it even with said IR telescope

i will neither back up or refute the existence of planetx/nibiru/tyche

i just wanted to prove some ppl wrong who have said "if a brown dwarf was here we would see it by now"

sorry for poor grammer btw

Originally posted by Insearchofthetruth1987
hello ATS i have followed this site for the last 3-4 months (made my account today after reading this thread) ... aand i have seen many a nibiru / planet x / tyche thread....
and there is always 1 guy who says "amateur astronomers would have seen this thing by now"...

which is a very good point why cant it be seen by the many astronomers the world over?

1 argument is that it does not exist

the other is that it is a brown dwarf and they are invisible to 99.9% of telescopes because they absorb light and emit none of there own but they give off heat what can be seen in infra red spectrum with an IR telescope(if this is true then only a handfull of amateurs own these yet alot more pros)
also you would have to know where it is/its orbit to spot it even with said IR telescope

i will neither back up or refute the existence of planetx/nibiru/tyche

i just wanted to prove some ppl wrong who have said "if a brown dwarf was here we would see it by now"

sorry for poor grammer btw

A brown dwarf would have devastated our solar system by hurling every single planet out of its orbit.

And that would be seen.

reply to post by sith9157

We all know comet elenin will be ariving to our naked eye soon. Does this mean you are able to see it? and if so is it just a comet ? and if you can not see it why not?. I am no astronomer so please excuss me.