A case for chemtrails?

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


So now chemtrails have moved above the troposphere, above the stratosphere, and are now hundreds of miles up in the ionosphere!

No wonder we never see any.

reply to post by Essan


Didn't you ever learn, what goes up must come down?

Go read some books about it, I bet I can even find a U-tube video for you if you'd like me to.

I believe it's called gravity.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Barium is used by NASA and other space / weather agencies in conjunction with satellites, Lidar and radar. It is used to study the magnetosphere, ionosphere, radio and other frequency waves.

sure...and that invitesa the obvious question - Are you now saying those are chemtrails?

Barium is also used as an additive in diesel fuel and in drilling mud - are they chemtrails too?


What is it yuo think chemtrails are again??

reply to post by jdub297

Originally posted by jdub297
Governments, NGOs and privately-funded studies have explored and promoted stratospheric aerosols, among other things, as a means of mitigation. None have proven viable thus far. There has been no reduction in global temperatures, warming or "climate change" attributed to these theories.
True "investors" fund for a return on their "investment." No such investment programs exist and no measurable "return" enjoyed from them.

Stratospheric injection of aerosols is one technique considered, but none of the alternatives have been rejected nor has it been adopted as the most likely for success. The debate continues. No one is seriously considering tropospheric injection of aerosols for SRM/AGW mitigation.

You are wrong and incorrect.

www.scribd.com...

What are the Most Promising Solar Radiation Reduction Technologies?

The two solar radiation reduction technologies according to the Royal Society are cloud based albedo and stratospheric aerosols. These methods have relatively lower regional ecological and environmental risks compared to other albedooptions (desert, urban, glass and cropland), and also are more cost effective perunit of solar radiation reduced than the other options. John Latham of theUniversity of Colorado, Boulder and Stephen Salter of the University of Edinburghhave proposed to spray seawater in the atmosphere to increase the reflectiveness of clouds (Latham, 2010, Salter, 2010)). The sprayers would use afleet of around 1500 unmanned ships to spray water mist into the clouds towhiten them, an effect known as the Twomey Effect (Latham, 2010).

According to the Royal Society, this would be one of the least expensive mitigation options,with low risk of changing the chemistry of the clouds and/or atmosphere. (RoyalSociety, 2009)Perhaps the solar radiation reduction strategy that has received the mostattention is stratospheric aerosols. The economist Steven Lewitt of theUniversity of Chicago has recommended this option in his best-selling book“SuperFreakonomics” (Levitt, 2009) (to considerable controversy). Further, BillGates has been believed to be funding the research of this option through theventure capital fund Intellectual Ventures, which is run by Nathan Myhrvold (alsoformerly of Microsoft) (Kintisch, 2010). Intellectual Ventures has hired thescientist Ken Caldeira as a research scientist to focus on this venture. The optionwould send a compound of sulphur into the atmosphere either through a hosesuspended by helium balloons, or by adding sulphuric compounds to jet fuel.The cost is estimated by Ken Caldeira to be only a few billion US dollars toimplement, in order to bring the earth’s temperature down by approximately 2degrees. Caldeira has stated that Sulphurs would not stay in the atmosphere formore than a few years, and also do not significant impact plant growth andphotosynthesis (Calderia 2008).

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Barium is used by NASA and other space / weather agencies in conjunction with satellites, Lidar and radar. It is used to study the magnetosphere, ionosphere, radio and other frequency waves.

Mat you already posted this elsewhere w/reference to "rocket chemtrails" in the 1970s.

NOTHING to do with "chemtrails" or geoengineering, and you know it or you are lying.
You really no longer have any idea and no shame at all, do you?

jw

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


So now you are saying that the proposed use of seawater to increase the reflectivity of clouds, by injecting it from ships, is chemtrails too???

What I don't get it, why do people keep saying this stuff is sprayed through the fuel system.

Again!!! If I were to spray anything I would have sprayers attached to the back of the plane and underside of the wings.

I don't think its possible in the first place to put something in the jet fuel unless it was able to ignite. Then that would mean we are getting petroleum products sprayed down on us.

reply to post by djcarlosa

Also I would like to point out that one of the main factors that effect how long a contrail can last is the aerosol content produced by the plane's engines as these liquid volatile aerosols (mainly composed of H2SO4/H2O), leads to the nucleation of ice crystals so it would follow that in order for a contrail to persist for over 2 hours the aerosol content must be greatly increased.

You might want to check this out...

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...

Enjoy!!!!

reply to post by Tygart


There are more than one way to skin a cat.

The fuel additives are used for increasing cloud albedo SRM.

Cloud Albedo
en.wikipedia.org...

Cloud albedo is a measure of the albedo of a cloud - higher values mean that the cloud reflects more solar radiation, or more radiation is transmitted. Cloud albedo varies from less than 10% to more than 90% and depends on drop sizes, liquid water or ice content, thickness of the cloud, and the sun's zenith angle. The smaller the drops and the greater the liquid water content, the greater the cloud albedo, if all other factors are the same. Low, thick clouds (such as stratocumulus) primarily reflect incoming solar radiation, causing it to have a high albedo, whereas high, thin clouds (such as Cirrus) tend to transmit it to the surface but then trap outgoing infrared radiation, causing it to have low albedo. It contributes to the greenhouse

The sulfur and/or aluminum injecting (spraying) is used in the upper atmosphere for SRM

Solar radiation management
en.wikipedia.org...

[1] (SRM) projects are a type of geoengineering which seek to reflect sunlight and thus reduce global warming.

[2] They do not reduce greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere, and thus do not address problems such as ocean acidification caused by these gases. Their principle advantage as an approach to geoengineering is the speed with which they can be deployed and become fully active.

By comparison, other geoengineering techniques based on greenhouse gas remediation, such as ocean iron fertilization, need to sequester the anthropogenic carbon excess before they can arrest global warming. Solar radiation management projects can therefore be used as a geoengineering 'quick fix' while levels of greenhouse gases can be brought under control by greenhouse gas remediation techniques.

A study by Lenton and Vaughan suggest that marine cloud brightening and stratospheric sulfur aerosols are each capable of reversing the warming effect of a doubling of the level of CO2 in the atmosphere when compared to pre-industrial levels.[

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

Almost every "chemtrailer" thread begins with wanting to discuss this topic in a rational polite manner. They (we) make a few statements and present some evidence. That's when a whole team of debunker goons pile into the thread insulting every aspect of a the persons ideas, intelligence, character, honesty..etc..etc.

Wow I guess you forgot about this....

I would like this thread to be for people who truly want to investigate the subject of chemtrails. I would also like to respectfully request that the chemtrail debunkers refrain from interfering with this thread and post their usual anti-chemmie comments elsewhere. Please allow the ATS members who want to discuss this issue and share their personal experiences and the information they have about the subject of chemtrails. Chemtrail debunkers please post your comments somewhere else. This thread is not for you. This thread is for sharing information and personal experiences of people who believe they have seen chemtrails..

Sure this was rational and polite.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


You forgot something here....

Main article: Stratospheric sulfur aerosols (geoengineering) Stratospheric sulfur aerosols: proposed by Paul Crutzen,[8] with the purpose to modify the Earth's albedo with reflective or absorptive materials spread over portions of its surface. This would typically be achieved using hydrogen sulfide or sulfur dioxide, delivered using artillery, aircraft (such as the high-flying F15-C) or balloons.[8][14][15]

[16] Ozone depletion is a risk of such techniques,[17] but only if high enough quantities of aerosols drift to, or are deposited in, polar stratospheric clouds before the levels of CFCs and other ozone destroying gases fall naturally to safe levels.[citation needed] This proposal, not unlike the others, carries with it considerable risks, including increased drought[18] or acid rain.[19] Broadly speaking, this technique is seen as a credible geoengineering scheme, although not one without major risks, and challenges for its implementation. This technique can give >3.7W/m2 of globally averaged negative forcing,[3] which is sufficient to entirely offset the warming caused by a doubling of CO2

en.wikipedia.org...

Sounds like a good thing to do.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


There was nothing that contradicts what he stated

What was the point?

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


What did I forget? It might sound good but that depends on the side effects and the way the Governance issues play out. NWO here we come.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


I don't think he was trying to contradict anything - he was pointong out that "it" seems like a good thing to do, and wondering why the previous poster han't mentioned that.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I was talking about the NASA cloud and contrail formation link

reply to post by MathiasAndrew


So you were - my apologies.


But he didn't seem to be actually contradicting you - as far as I can see he posted the link for information.

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

The fuel additives are used for increasing cloud albedo SRM.

Mat, I'm sure it doesn't matter to you or the gullible, but your usual incompetent wikipedia "authority" says absolutely nothing about jet fuel, additives, or chemtrails.

Cloud Albedo
en.wikipedia.org...

Cloud albedo is a measure of the albedo of a cloud - higher values mean that the cloud reflects more solar radiation, or more radiation is transmitted.

And, of course, no article you ever cribbed from says anything about using aluminum for SRM.

deny ignorants
jw

reply to post by MathiasAndrew

It might sound good but that depends on the side effects and the way the Governance issues play out. NWO here we come.

Still running around in circles. THAT is why it is NOT being presently implemented.

NWO? Is this a new theory, or just some acronym you read in one of your key-word searches?

deny ignorance
jw

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

The fuel additives are used for increasing cloud albedo SRM.

Mat, I'm sure it doesn't matter to you or the gullible, but your usual incompetent wikipedia "authority" says absolutely nothing about jet fuel, additives, or chemtrails.

Good grief - you're not expecting Matty to understand what he posts are you?? sheesh - that's a sad victory of optimism over experience!

Albedo management actually has it's own wiki page that DOES mention aircraft - I'm surprised Matty hasn't seized on it - en.wikipedia.org...

However it also points out that aircraft are essentially useless for the role, to which I would add that spraying salt water from aircraft would be a great way to destroy the aircraft quickly - the corrosion would be appalling!

And OF COURSE there's no mention of fuel additives to do it - just straight dumping of a salt water mist. But I'm sure that won't discourage him.

I fully expect this to become part of his argument in a wee while.......think of it as Matty-seeding!!

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
I posted this video and pdf report because it is one the most complete and accurate pieces of evidence for chemtrails. The report is examined in the video by Dr. Vermeeren. This was done at an international symposium in Belgium. I agree with the arguments and conclusions found in this report.

Would you agree with these paragraphs I found in a report?

Most of the people posting the 'chemtrail' observations on the Internet are not academically qualified to do
so. Estimating the cruising altitude of a jet airplane is indeed a tricky affair. Making the difference between contrails and 'chemtrails' is even more challenging. Last but not least posting pictures of grid-pattern contrails on the Internet without a valid caption does not promote any scientific seriousness towards the subject.

Many websites that provide information about 'chemtrails' also cover other subjects, such as the
existence of extra-terrestrial life on earth, global mind control programs and other stuff. As a result of this any story about 'chemtrails' is treated the same way as a hoax and this regardless the value of that information.
Only a handful Internet sites are dedicated solely on 'chemtrails'. In fact they combine all 'chemtrail'
reports within a single state and post it on the Internet. Examples of these are arizonaskywatch.com... and www.chemtrails-info.de....

These websites often offer test analysis of water samples and reports of spraying actions. Sadly on many occasions the information presented contains scientific errors or wrong interpretations.

And another that i can agree with.

Last but not least there are a number of websites that deny the existence of 'chemtrails' in a quite
cynical but scientific way. An example of this is contrailscience.com...

Its Webmaster, known as 'Unicus', does actually hide his real identity - adding fresh meat for the conspiracy
theory grinder that it might be a government agency. However it is significant that this website deals with any of the websites mentioned above, reducing the argumentation of 'chemtrail' protagonists to a piece of rubble.