Electrophonic meteors may provide clues to why engines cut out during UFO sightings

There are quite a few unexplained UFO cases where people have been driving, and whilst seeing a UFO the engine has cut out, and the vehicle has refused to start again. I'm not sure that anyone has put forward a viable explanation as to why or how this could be explained if it was not some kind of craft that was able to "disable" a motor car. I think I may have one though.

First of all let me clarify some terms...

What is the difference between a meteor, a meteorite, and a meteoroid?

Meteoroids are the smallest members of the solar system, ranging in size from large fragments of asteroids or comets, to extremely small micrometeoroids. Whenever a meteoroid plows into the Earth’s atmosphere, it will create a brief flash of moving light in the sky, called a meteor. Meteors were once thought to be a purely atmospheric phenomena, and the study of these and other atmospheric effects, especially weather, spawned the science of meteorology. It was not until the mid-1800′s that the extra-terrestrial nature of meteors was widely recognized. If remnants of the parent meteoroid survive the trip through the atmosphere to reach the ground, then these remnants are called meteorites.

American Meteor Society Meteor FAQs

What is a fireball? What is the difference between a fireball and a bolide?

A fireball is another term for a very bright meteor, generally brighter than magnitude -4, which is about the same magnitude of the planet Venus in the morning or evening sky. A bolide is a special type of fireball which explodes in a bright terminal flash at its end, often with visible fragmentation.

American Meteor Society Fireball FAQs


What is an electophonic meteor/fireball?

Sometimes when a meteor or a fireball is observed, an odd sound will accompany it at the same time the event is visually observed:

Another form of sound frequently reported with bright fireballs is “electrophonic” sound, which occurs coincidentally with the visible fireball. The reported sounds range from hissing static, to sizzling, to popping sounds. Often, the witness of such sounds is located near some metal object when the fireball occurs. Additionally, those with a large amount of hair seem to have a better chance of hearing these sounds. Electrophonic sounds have never been validated scientifically, and their origin is unknown. Currently, the most popular theory is the potential emission of VLF radio waves by the fireball, although this has yet to be verified.

American Meteor Society Fireball FAQs

Although electrophonic meteors are very rarely observed, and are difficult to study since it's nearly impossible to predict when one will occur and therefore have the required equipment in place in order to gather useful data from the event, we have enough documented sightings to suggest that this is a real phenomenon, and the sounds have even been recorded on at least one occasion when a fireball was observed by multiple members of a research team, so we know that it is not an auditory illusion. The science behind it, and a mechanism for this phenomenon fits the observational data very well, and a number of papers have been published on the subject.

Click here for one example
Many more can be found here if you use the search function


What does all of this have to do with UFOs?


Have a look at these reports where there has been a problem with the car running at the same time a UFO was witnessed:

Jan 1968: Orford, Tas - Ca. 2100hrs
A family were taking a weekend trip around Tas travelling on the east coast. The husband was driving the vehicle at fifty five to sixty five km/h when upon rounding a curve a bright light came over the driver's side. It was a yellowish light but the actual source was not visible. Seconds later the vehicle's lights dimmed for 100-200m. The bright light went out and the vehicle's lights returned to normal. Further on, round a sweeping bend the same thing happened. However, when he came out of the bend and onto the straight, the lights had failed altogether. This took place over fifteen to twenty seconds. The driver stopped the car to investigate. However, the yellow light had gone by this time and the headlights came back on by themselves.



1968/69: Tennant Creek, NT - Night
A group of 10 or so people in a 1952 vehicle were travelling along when the vehicle's motor just died. They then smelt a "hot metal" odour, and a large, dark disc shape rose from nearby and rose into the sky with no sound audible. Their motor vehicle's engine could then be successfuly started



8 Aug 1971: Kadina, SA - 1835hrs
A Mr Boyce, fifty one, left Wallaroo and was driving back to Kadina, alone in his car. About five kilometres out of town his surroundings were illuminated by an orange hue. Suddenly the engine stopped and the lights went out. The ignition light on the dashboard failed to come on, and despite efforts the engine could not be restarted. He steered the car to the side of the road and braked to a halt. Getting out he saw, at fifty metres altitude, an oval shape with three to four "windows". It was stationary, almost directly above the car. It remained motionless for two to three minutes with a continuous buzzing sound being audible. It then left to the south- east. Before it was completely out of sight, he got in the car and started the engine, with the lights then coming on.



20 Feb 1969: Norseman, WA - 1500hrs
A fully fuelled car began "to gasp" as if running out of petrol. A cigar shape was then noticed twenty five metres away near the road. It was ten metres long and moved away above trees, kicking up dust and leaves as it did so. The car then sped ahead. The object disappeared very quickly taking ten seconds to rise and disappear from view.



Mar 1970: Scottsdale, Tas
A forestry worker was driving along when he saw a flash in the sky. His car radio was overcome with static. A soundless, green object, three times the angular size of the full Moon was seen to the rear of the vehicle, at an estimated 200 metres distance



Ca Jul 1972: Melton Mowbray, Tas - Ca. 2000hrs
A twenty five year old housewife was driving at sixty five km/h from Kempton to a cabaret, when looking out her rear vision mirror she saw a light. At first she thought it was a car with one headlight, but it was soundless and no car was to be seen. The light came up behind her and seemed to swoop over the car. The incident lasted some thirty seconds. The engine started to splutter and jerk as if stopping. The car slowed down but was alright when the light had gone.



25 Jul 1972: Frankston, Vic - 2115hrs
The road was lit up by a blue light, and she accelerated the car. Suddenly the engine cut out as it turned off with the key. Thinking it had stalled she turned the ignition key but this had no affect. The car slowed to a halt at the side of the road and stopped all by itself. During this period turning the steering wheel did not alter the direction of travel, pumping the brake was to no avail and putting the gears through all their positions did nothing. However, the lights remained on at all times.

She maintained there were no unusual road bumps as the car came to a halt. There was no feeling of the road being under the wheels. All sounds "drained" out of the air and there was an eerie silence. Then she felt she was receiving a message and a voice appeared to be inside her head. As the impressions ceased the engine started itself, the outside blue light went out and the object was gone. This coincided with the approach of another vehicle. All systems were then back under her control.


30 Nov 1972: Murray Bridge, SA - 2315hrs
Motor mechanic Mr Maxwell was out testing his vehicle when upon coming over a rise in the road, the motor and lights of his car cut out. They came back on but rose and fell in intensity several times. He decided to stop the engine and the car came to a halt.
To his left he saw a "diamond shape with the top cut off" noiselessly sitting on the ground forty five metres away in a paddock. His car radio went "funny", making a noise like a "computer on TV", a constant rhythm.

As soon as he stopped the car he had tried the ignition key but when he turned it nothing happened, not even the oil light came on. He then tried the wipers and the electric air horn but they didn't work either. He locked all the doors and wound up the windows and just sat there for the next forty five minutes.
After this time, the object left and he found he could restart the car quite alright. An inspection of the vehicle next day revealed no cause for the electrical problems.

www.project1947.com


Now it's not unusual for people to have trouble identifying meteors, as discussed at length in this thread (from about page 5 onwards). When large fireballs, caused by natural meteoroids (bits of asteroids and comets) shoot (or in some cases crawl) across the sky, are seen by many people there are often 911 calls, reporting that it looked like anything from a firework to an aircraft on fire, and even a missile.

In some of these cases verified meteorites have been recovered, proving that what people saw was really a meteor.

This is not at all surprising since most people have not spent lots of time observing and studying meteors, but even if they have seen a few "shooting stars" and even a bright (fireball class) meteor, all meteors are different, and in my experience (100's of hours spent specifically observing for meteors) it takes a very long time before you start to get a feel for how diverse this phenomena can appear to be, which is one of the reasons I am so interested in studying it.

It's not uncommon for people to jump to the conclusion erroneously, as Arbitrageur pointed out in this post here regarding a case where a confirmed satellite reentry was reported as a UFO by many well educated and intelligent people (airline pilots)

4. The pilot did not believe the apparition was a satellite re-entry because "I have seen a re-entry before and this was different." These re-entries are particularly spectacular because of the size of the object, and the pilot was speaking from an inadequate experience base here.

What is my point with this? I'm establishing that it's not uncommon that people misidentify meteors and that they are labeled as "UFOs"


Underestimating fireballs and fireball frequency

A fireball can be a very deceptive thing. Most people are not aware how bright they can appear to be when they are many 10s and even 100's of miles away, which can make them seem closer than they actually are. Our brains have a funny habit of interpenetrating bright things as being very close, even if that is not the case. Observers who don't have much experience with meteors also forget that meteors are not "just fast streaks of light in the sky", and that they can appear to move very strangely in the sky, and sometimes not at all under the right circumstances.

The other thing that people generally underestimate, is just how common fireballs and bright meteors really are, and that there is a good chance of seeing one if you are spending some time outdoors.

Several thousand meteors of fireball magnitude occur in the Earth's atmosphere each day. The vast majority of these, however, occur over the oceans and uninhabited regions, and a good many are masked by daylight. Those that occur at night also stand little chance of being detected due to the relatively low numbers of persons out to notice them. Additionally, the brighter the fireball, the more rare is the event. As a general thumbrule, there are only about 1/3 as many fireballs present for each successively brighter magnitude class, following an exponential decrease. Experienced observers can expect to see only about 1 fireball of magnitude -6 or better for every 200 hours of meteor observing, while a fireball of magnitude -4 can be expected about once every 20 hours or so.

American Meteor Society Fireball FAQs


As the above quote says, most fireballs are unseen (or unreported), so there are plenty of chances for people to see them. Not everyone reports a fireball having seen one, and perhaps this is at least partly due do some people not recognizing it as a fireball class meteor.

It's quite easy to "pick out" the misidentifications when a big fireball is seen by lots of people, since the majority of people who report them, correctly report them as fireballs. In the case of events that are not widely seen however, there is at least a fair chance that someone will see it and not be able to identify it.

I think this happens quite a bit more often than most people think, and people don't give meteors anywhere near enough credit for being able to fool people in to thinking they have seen something much more unusual. Couple an already unusual sight with the engine cutting out, and only refusing to start once the "strange light" has gone, and you have "UFO" written all over it... unless you consider electrophonic meteors!


Enter The Wiluna Meteorite

In this amazing case of a bright electrophonic fireball that dropped meteorites in Australia in 1967, we have a car and a generator that both would not run at the same time, and could only be restarted once the fireball was no longer visible. This suggests quite strongly that this phenomenon can interfere with engine components.

The Wiluna Meteorite was observed to fall on September 2, 1967 at 22:46 hrs.
Along with sonic phenomena, a fireball was seen. An estimated 1,000 stones fell
over an arid sheep grazing area approximately five miles east of the Wiluna
Township, Western Australia. Almost the entire town (including people from
surrounding stations (ranches) was gathered in the outdoor movie house when the
fireball came over. They heard electrophonic sounds - crackling and hissing
while the fireball was visible and incandescent. The diesel generator which
powers the town cut out, and when the policeman went to jump in his Landcruiser
and investigate, it would not start until well after the fireball was over.
Local land holders picked up many of the stones and the Western Australia Museum
came out and organized a systematic search of the four by two mile strewn field
with the help of the local aborigines. It was all picked up soon after it fell,
which is why it looks so pristine. Bob Haag's 1997

METEOROBS (The meteor observing list)

Wiluna Meteorite data


But what about the sound electrophonic meteors are supposed to create? Wouldn't it be heard during a UFO sighting if the cause was really a meteor?

The trouble here is that we only know an electrophonic meteor by its sound, since they are impossible to distinguish visually from a normal meteor. We know that when a meteor ablates ("burns up") in the atmosphere that it produces light of many different wavelengths and each meteor (apart from those belonging to meteor showers) has a unique fingerprint in terms of which wavelengths it emmitts, but light is just a small part of the electromagnetic spectrum, so it's reasnoble to assume that other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum (such as the VLF frequency range thought to be responsible for the electrophonic sounds) also have similar characteristics.

The frequencies responcible for people hearing electrophonic sounds may be slightly different to those responsible for engines cutting out, and I think it's more than likely, that all meteors have different VLF fingerprints, so it's likely that some meteors will prduce sound and some might not althogh there might be wavlengths emitted that could be responcible for engines cutting out.

As well as this, not everyone who observes an electrophonic meteor hears any sound associated with it, so we know that some hear them and some don't, which is thought to be due to the types of objects a person has around when they see the meteor.


Conclusions

I think there is good evidence to support that people can easily misidentify meteors or fireballs, and that at least some of the time, meteors are reported as UFOs, even when there is no evidence of electrophonic phenomena.

We know that fireballs are fairly common, and that many are not reported, so it's possible that less common phenomena that accompany a meteor, are more common than we think, and are either being misreported as UFOs or not reported at all in some cases (people are sometimes worried that reporting seeing something strange might make them look crazy, or simply don't want to bother reporting it).

There is also good evidence to suggest that meteors/fireballs can interfere with and affect the operation of engines. Meteors certainly do not explain all the UFO sightings, but the evidence suggests that it's more than most people think, which is something I have also observed first hand since I first began studying and observing meteors (more than a decade ago).

Whilst there is no doubt that meteors/fireballs cause at least some UFO sightings, there are still a few question marks over the electrophonic phenomenon, and whilst I think it is very possible that it may explain UFO sightings where engines have cut out, I may be wrong, and each case is different. That said, I think we have a viable, scientifically recognized mechanism which might explain such reports, that does not require any "advanced technology".


I'd welcome all comments, as long as they are on topic and polite.


Related Links

Research and papers:
Recording of mysterious meteor sounds
Instrumental recording of electrophonic sounds from Leonid fireballs
Electrophonic Sounds from Bolides
Global Electrophonic Fireball Survey

Articles:
NASA - Listening to Leonids
Whoosh! Can you hear a meteor streak past?

Meteors:
How Fast is "Swift": An Exploration of Meteor Angular Speeds
DID I ACTUALLY SEE A FIREBALL LAND NEAR ME?
meteorshowersonline.com
The progress of meteoric astronomy in America : read before the Philosophical Society of Washington, April 12, 1890

Organizations and mailing lists:
The American Meteor Society
The International Meteor organization
METEOROBS (The meteor observing list
Meteorite-list -- Meteorite Discussion Forum

Meteor/fireball footage
www.youtube.com...
Here's a nice recent fireball that was caught by the ITALIAN METEOR and TLE NETWORK at the start of February.
Here's a big fireball that exploded over South Africa back in 2009, and seen by thousands:
www.youtube.com...

Excellent notion. Add in the fact that for centuries the professional scientists told witnesses to electrophonic sounds that it was impossible, and they must have been imagining things.

In the 1980s I helped Colin Keay of Australia investigate the remarkable fact that reentering space shuttles created their own electrophonic sounds as they flew over ground sites in Texas.

Keay was able to follow up on this and some good luck with a Japanese fireball that occurred while a radio station was doing a frequency scan, to determine the radio band that the radio noise occurred in. He then used lab experiments to show how such radio noise could 'couple into' physical objects such as pine needles, frizzy hair, eyeglasses, building siding, etc.,to create local sound vibrations.

It's a wonderful mystery of nature with a lot to teach serious ufologists.

Thanks for the thread!

reply to post by JimOberg


Thanks Jim.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Add in the fact that for centuries the professional scientists told witnesses to electrophonic sounds that it was impossible, and they must have been imagining things.

Good point, and one I neglected to make in my OP, though there is some info on the subject in the links provided. It is only in recent years that science has acknowledged the phenomenon as being real.

The same was also true of the meteor phenomenon, and even up till around the early 1900s scientists did not believe that most meteors people saw were real.

Also, if you look at this article written around that time, it's astonishing the similarities it has with regards to the reliability of witness testimony that we find ourselves discussing here all the time today.

Newspaper: The Fort Wayne Sentinel
City: Fort Wayne, IN
Date: Wednesday, December 28, 1910
Page: 22

MOST METEORITES IMAGINED HE SAYS

Curator of Smithsonian Institution Has a Word to Say.

REPORTS UNFOUNDED

Washington, D. C. Dec. 22. - "Thirty years experience in connection
with meteorites and the falling of such phenomena, has gone a long way
toward making me a heretic, and has quite unfitted me for duties in which
the credibility of humans testimony is involved, say Dr. George P. Merrill,
head curator of the department of geology at the Smithsonian institution at
Washington.

"This department is constantly receiving letters from persons all over
the United States who have actually seen a meteorite fall and want
information in regard to it. Samples of there which have been sent on for
examination usually prove to be nothing more than masses of furnace slag,
metallic iron, granite, ect.

"The number of persons actually finding authentic meteorites is hardly
greater than 1 per cent. of the entire number. This may perhaps be caused
by the low angle of incidence characteristic of the fall of many meteorites,
but it is a fact that even the most experienced of observers have been
mistaken, and stones 'actually seen' to strike the earth in nearby fields
have been ultimately found even miles away.

"Then, too, the newspapers have in many instances printed startling
accounts of the fall of meteorites, instances where persons were hit and
seriously injured and houses struck and damaged. As a matter of fact, there
is no authentic record of a meteorite ever having done any damage, its
impact with the earth being scarcely more than that due to gravity.

"People should realize that meteorites are not to be found with any
amount of frequency. In all the known collections of the world today there
are specimens of only about 800 meteorites. The number of specimens
themselves may be much in excess of that number, but these are simply
duplicate specimens of the same meteorite.

"Since I have been connected with the Smithsonian institution many
cases of the supposed finding of meteorites have come under my notice. One
of the most startling instances of the fall of a meteorite was chronicled in
a reliable newspaper not long ago.

"The meteorite, which was reported to be 'immense,' it was said,
exploded with a loud report when within 100 feet of the ground. The windows
of the place rattled and there was a shower of splintered iron on the roofs.
The country was lighted up for miles and people were terrorized. Seeing the
report of this, an investigation was at once begun by writing to persons
living in the vicinity of where the phenomenon had occurred.

"In reply a letter was received from a man to whom the matter had been
referred and who had been recommended to me as 'a man of good reputation.'
In his letter he verified all the points brought out in the newspaper
account and gave some additional data in regard to its color, shape, ect.

"Further investigations of the matter were undertaken with a view of
obtaining, if possible, a specimen of the meteorite. None was found
whatever but it was discovered that the 'phenomenon' chronicled had been
caused by the explosion of some dynamite which the boys of the neighborhood
had stolen.

"Another newspaper clipping which came under my notice reported that a
man had been hit by a meteorite. It stated that it struck him 'so terrible
a blow that he was found senseless near his home with a crushed and
fractured skull' In describing the stone the article went on to state that
it was 'the size of an orange, strangely corrugated and marked with
widnamstatten or peculiar crystalline figures. Mineralogists who saw it
declare it is unquestionably of meteoric origin.'

"The article also went on to state that the man's condition was
critical, and that he had been removed to a hospital. Correspondence with
the postmaster of the city in which the accident took place was entered
into. He in turn communicated with the physician attending the injured man,
who made the statement that the obstacle which had struck the man was an
ordinary stone thrown by a neighbor.

"A somewhat similar case was that of a report stating that by the fall
of an aerolite a residence was partly wrecked and the neighborhood
panicstricken. The meteor struck the north end of the house tearing away a
part of the upper story. When this was investigated I received word that it
was 'all a hoax; nothing of the kind struck the house.'"

The Meteorite mailing list

Originally posted by JimOberg
In the 1980s I helped Colin Keay of Australia investigate the remarkable fact that reentering space shuttles created their own electrophonic sounds as they flew over ground sites in Texas.

Keay was able to follow up on this and some good luck with a Japanese fireball that occurred while a radio station was doing a frequency scan, to determine the radio band that the radio noise occurred in. He then used lab experiments to show how such radio noise could 'couple into' physical objects such as pine needles, frizzy hair, eyeglasses, building siding, etc.,to create local sound vibrations.

Thanks for sharing, very interesting, and it's another very good point that I also neglected to mention - that artificial meteors can also produce electrophonic sounds.

I don't suppose if you happen to know, are all (or most) space shuttle reentries accompanied by reports of electrophonic phenomena? Were there any obvious differences in the shuttle missions, that might account for the reports of electrophonic sounds?


This seems a good time to include this example of a man made electrophonic fireball that was also reported as a "UFO":

www.youtube.com...
This is footage of a Russian SL-4 rocket body (used to launch a French space telescope) reentering the atmosphere early in 2007. More info here

Originally posted by JimOberg
It's a wonderful mystery of nature with a lot to teach serious ufologists.

I agree 100%.

Nature has lots to teach us, and to be a serious ufologist a person needs to familiar with a wide array of disciplines, natural studies included since we live in a (mostly) natural environment.

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.

This seems a good time to include this example of a man made electrophonic fireball that was also reported as a "UFO":

www.youtube.com...
This is footage of a Russian SL-4 rocket body (used to launch a French space telescope) reentering the atmosphere early in 2007. More info here

Am I missing something? I can't see any reference to anyone HEARING anything for this fireball.

The entering Orbiters were streaking across Texas at about 40 miles up at mach 15 or so, on their way to Florida. Because this was a standard approach from a 28 deg orbit, ground observers had seen a number of such entries and had gotten familiar with them.

Almost all entries from 52 deg orbits (from Mir and the ISS) come across the Yucatan, SW to NE towards florida, and nobody there has ever tried to collect eyewitness accounts that might or might not have involved sound.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Am I missing something? I can't see any reference to anyone HEARING anything for this fireball.

No, you have not missed a thing (as usual) Jim.

I should have said "if I recall correctly", as I thought I remembered reports of electrophonic sounds being associated with this reentry. I've searched, and can not find any reports of sounds either, so I guess I was mistaken. Sorry for the misleading statement. I'll try to be more careful next time it's late and I am sleep deprived.

Thanks for the additional info on the shuttle reentries.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


Am I missing something?

Perhaps I missed something key to your thread. But I did not see it mentioned, and did not think I should have to traverse your numerous links to find the answer to see if it was there.

What connects meteoric sounds to what evidently is electrical impulses that disable electrical equipment? Keep in mind as far as "electical equipment goes, this must cover the shielded systems of aircraft, and automobile engines, lights, etc., before they became highly electronic.

Killing engines has always been assumed to the result of an extremely powerful electrical field generated either inherent to some UFOs or a specific device specifically for disabling automobiles. Where did that crazy idea come from? Well, from those kooky people that witness UFOs. In many incidents of that phenomena, witnesses have given detailed accounts that represent a close encounter and/or their being abducted. This is good evidence for the specific use of such a "weapon." (We have been told recently on ATS that our loving gov't has such a weapon of their own.)

Known examples of genuine meteors or meteorites stalling cars would be helpful. As it stands your theory does not out-weigh the facts of the meteor-caused-electronic suppression if you also allow the existence of UFOs.

You had me scratching my head when you offer a UFO report about a mechanic seeing a diamond-shaped object on the ground and his car engine and lights cut out. How does that even connect to meteors?

Frankly, I don't see the relationship about meteoric acoustics and UFOs EM effects Perhaps you can clarify.

Aliensun, I think the primary lesson of this recently-validated phenomenon is that the eyewitnesses were right and the know-it-all scientists were wrong in proclaiming they could NOT have experienced what they described because it was contrary to science. Sound familiar?

I don't doubt that Bill Nye would have lectured any witness severely for being over excitable and unscientific in even THINKING that sound could come from a distant fireball. Idiots all, these hicks. But the witnesses were NOT the idiots in this matter.

The second lesson is the value that amateur observers and heretical researchers brought to the subject.

The third lesson is that such "fringe phenomena" CAN succumb to research even over the objections of the scientific establishment, if reliable records and catalogs are compiled and distributed.

The longer that such progress does NOT occur for some other 'fringe reports' [you know who you are!], the less credible is their whine that "we're unproven because the establishment scientists reject us."

Boo hoo.

Do the field work and do the raw report documentation -- and the validation to weed out any unreliable or questionable reports. Once that's accomplished [and it has not been yet for 'UFO reports'], then the true test of validation can be faced.

Until then, all we have is whining and whimpering.

The universe still has secrets, and they all don't require ten billion dollar international projects to tackle.

They DO require discipline and dispassionate data evaluation. And the potential secrets DESERVE that.

That's what the story of 'electrophonic sounds' tells me. But I've always been out of step with all sides of this issue.

reply to post by JimOberg


I guess you missed it. I'll try to make it clear this time so you don't obstruct what I said with some vague, scientific-sounding response and your usual jab for us to do our research.

I said nothing about the ability or reason to hear or not hear meteors at high altitudes before they should be heard by the accepted laws of nature. I accept that attribute on scant evidence, but you do too!!!?

I was commenting, I though throughly enough, that there is no connection between the UFO-related instances of electrical system failures and acoustic sounds by meteors.

Neither did the OP seem to have made a connection beween the two phenomena. It seems he just threw the UFO cases in there to explain UFOs as being meteors when one of them was a diamond object setting on the ground and interferring with the guy's car!!!!

Oberg, defend the government's stance all you want, but I''ve had a time loss experience back in 1964 and I and about 20 others witnessed a huge triangle going low, slow and silently within about a mile of our position in Laramie in 1989. How about you doing some research on triangles and the accoustic humming noise of some of them make rather than your constant debunking of things I guess you have never seen?

I was trying to find common ground for things we all can do to enhance our understanding of the UFO phenomenon. That process often involves finding out where our earlier assessments and attitudes were mistaken, and changing our minds based on new evidence and new logic.

If I read you correctly, your goal is to find more validation for your current views.

We have less common ground than I had hoped.

Well, it takes all kinds of motives. Press on.

Thanks for the detailed and well-expressed comments.

Hi Aliensun. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and contribute to the thread.

Originally posted by Aliensun
reply to post by C.H.U.D.

 

Am I missing something?

Perhaps I missed something key to your thread. But I did not see it mentioned, and did not think I should have to traverse your numerous links to find the answer to see if it was there.

What connects meteoric sounds to what evidently is electrical impulses that disable electrical equipment? Keep in mind as far as "electical equipment goes, this must cover the shielded systems of aircraft, and automobile engines, lights, etc., before they became highly electronic.

The answer to your question above is not known in terms of the exact mechanism, but we do know that meteors can influence objects at a distance and for all intents and purposes instantly (at the speed of light or close to it), since the sounds people hear are heard at the same time as the meteor is visible. We know that meteors are far away at the time (in cases where meteorites have been found), and that sounds travel too slowly to account for the sound coming directly from the meteor, so the only explanation for the sound getting there so quickly is that the meteor is emitting electromagnetic radiation (in the VLF frequency range), which of course travels at the speed of light.

The next part is still unclear, but objects around an observer can pick up the radio waves (just like an antenna), and produce the sound that people hear. Here's some more about it from one of the links I posted:

Over the years, scarce theoretical research has managed to establish a connection between the EM
waves and anomalous sounds. In the ¯rst extensive study of these sounds, Romig & Lamar (1963)
concluded that these sounds are most probably similar to the brontophonic sounds (simultaneous
with, or slightly preceding, the lightning stroke) and aurora sounds (another poorly studied
phenomenon | sounds simultaneous with bright auroras). They concluded that the sound is
created by corona discharge on sharp conductors, including plant leaves. Keay (1980) narrowed
the frequency region for these EM waves to the ELF/VLF (between 30Hz and 3kHz) region. He
also conducted experiments on human subjects and concluded that the ELF/VLF electric ¯elds
are capable of entangling ordinary objects around the observer, from metals to dielectrics, into
a resonant vibration which then produces a sound in the same frequency range as the EM waves
(Keay & Ostwald 1991). This has become a widely accepted theory and the corona discharge
mechanism has been mainly forgotten.

Global Electrophonic Fireball Survey


So we know meteors are able to influence objects at a distance, but what is going on in that object is still a bit of a mystery.

That said, we have a well documented case (The Wiluna Meteorite), where at the same time as an electrophonic meteor was seen and heard, two engines cut out at the exact same time. Now it could be freak chance that this happened, but the chances of that are extremely low considering the engines were independent of each other, and because they cut out at the same time. That suggests that meteor itself played a part, and we have strong evidence that meteors can affect objects at a distance. It seems possible that the same mechanism that lets people hear a meteor at the same time as they see it, is at play here.

Originally posted by Aliensun
Killing engines has always been assumed to the result of an extremely powerful electrical field generated either inherent to some UFOs or a specific device specifically for disabling automobiles. Where did that crazy idea come from? Well, from those kooky people that witness UFOs. In many incidents of that phenomena, witnesses have given detailed accounts that represent a close encounter and/or their being abducted. This is good evidence for the specific use of such a "weapon." (We have been told recently on ATS that our loving gov't has such a weapon of their own.)

That is one possible explanation, although I have never seen any direct evidence to support that theory. There is however strong evidence, and even a mechanism that is scientifically recognized, where by objects can be influenced at a distance at the same time as a bright (and often mysterious) light in the sky is observed, and at least one case where multiple engines have cut out.

Originally posted by Aliensun
You had me scratching my head when you offer a UFO report about a mechanic seeing a diamond-shaped object on the ground and his car engine and lights cut out. How does that even connect to meteors?

As I stated clearly, this is certainly not going to explain all cases, but it might hold clues to a few.

I'm sure you could find many thousands of cases that electrophonic meteors could not explain, the point is that there are some that might very well be explained by electrophonic meteors. I have to admit, when I copied and pasted those reports, I did not scrutinize them all, yet there are many more there that do fit quite well in that "random selection".

Let me be clear with this: The point of my thread is to give a heads up to the UFO community that there could be another possible explanation for engine cut-outs during UFO sightings. We are aiming to focus on cases that can not be explained by conventional means here on this forum, and the only way to do that is to weed out anything that can be explained by conventional means... unless I'm missing something?

Thanks for your continued contributions to this thread Jim.

You brought up some very good points again a couple of posts up regarding the "lessons". I think scientists have lots to learn from people as well as vice versa.

I think that given time science will take the subject of UFOs a little more seriously, but it would certainly help if the UFO community could apply scientific techniques to the cases we are dealing with now. Ufology/ufologists would be taken more seriously, which can only be a good thing for everyone who is genuinely interested in finding out what is going on.

"There are quite a few unexplained UFO cases where people have been driving, and whilst seeing a UFO the engine has cut out, and the vehicle has refused to start again. I'm not sure that anyone has put forward a viable explanation as to why or how this could be explained if it was not some kind of craft that was able to "disable" a motor car."

Actually there have been some studies on that subject: Engine Stoppers. Martin Kottmeyer and many can be attributed to coincidence. UFO: POWER, COINCIDENCE, or OTHER CAUSAL LINKS?

I think your idea that electrophonic meteors could be the cause is interesting, but I think you need to support it with some better evidence. Who knows, an out of the box theory like this might be the answer. Thanks for posting this idea.

reply to post by Banater


Thanks for the reply, and the links Banater.

I haven't had a chance to check out the links yet, but I will do.

I agree, much more evidence is needed to prove a link between the two phenomena. I'm hoping this thread will be a starting point, and we can collect together more evidence.