Should we allow Taiwan to Purchase SSN's

The pentagon hires a bunch of computer nerds each year to deliberately sabotage a make up server system to see how their defenses fare up and then they fix whatever glitches they find. As long as they keep doing this each year we should be good...I hope.

i am a student from china.i have read all your opinions.you guys know that everyone in china holds that taiwan can not be departed from the mainland beacuse of its strategy value for china.you should realize that if one day taiwan own its independece and the USA build its military base on the island like japan and south korea,we will not have a tranquil day any more.it is just like a knife on you neck.we love peace,but if we let taiwan go,we will lose it for ever.

But Taiwan doesn't want to be part of china it wants to be independent. If china invades it will get the US involved and possibly the European nations involved too. Let me tell you it doesn't look good on TV hen a big nation invades and island whose only goal is to be independent


[edit on 12-8-2004 by WestPoint23]

In answer to the original question asked
NO.

Taiwan doesn't need subs especially at the price the subs would cost. Taiwan needs air protection with a limited strike role to ward off invasion (which I believe is beyond being called remote.)

China simply will not invade Taiwan. For the cost in trade $$ it wouldn't be worth the effort.

Taiwan is pretty self-sufficient
CIA stats
Manufacturers
however, much like Japan- hard, base materials are imported
Importers

It just doesn't seem likely to me that china would be willing to expend the military-

Now if China could economically squeeze Taiwan-

China will invade if Taiwan Formally declares indepedence. They have even threaten to kill the 2008 games if they have to if Taiwan becomes independent. China won't settle for a Republic of Taiwan. They rather have status quo with Taiwan then such indepedent nation.

As for the Subs, I think U.S offer some high tech subs or crusiers but it was way too expensive. Almost a trillion dollars I think.

As for the Subs, I think U.S offer some high tech subs or crusiers but it was way too expensive. Almost a trillion dollars I think.

Uhh...are you saying a U.S. nuclear sub or a cruises cost a trillion? They defiantly do not a U.S. SSN will cost you around 1.2 Billion. And US cruiser will cost you about 700-800 million. So nowhere near 1 trillion, but still these prices are too expensive for the rest of the world. But Taiwan wont need subs cuz if it has to come to war the US Navy will probably defend it.

westpoint23,you are american so you will not understand the feelings of chinese.it is true that some statesmen want taiwan to be independent,but dose the independence really do some big deal to the common?the policy of chianese mainland is two-win for the people on both sides of the strait,i am now living in shanghai feeling that people here are more and more open minded accepting your culture ,so i am sure if taiwan is unified with the mainland the living style of common people will not be changed.considering the tight relationship of economy and trade there are no reasons for taiwan to stick to its wrong decision now.it is very dangerous. furthermore the island is belonged to china from history recordation.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by johnny20010]

I dont think tawian can afford SSN's even if they arenet Ohio Class. Maybe on a layaway plam, but they would have to pay it for like 50 years. Maybe smaller attack subs such as the Los Angles class or such. Strategic placement of US patrols in the South China see is probably happening right now. Some autonomy could be given to the Taiwanese releasing US pressure.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Oh yeah I heard about that. I doubt that China plans on taking Siberia. Its probably just a couple of nationalistic posters who would like to expand China.

Expanding into a such a large area takes infrastructure. The Romans had bleak border patrols in far off regions of their empire, but what held them together was thier strong road system. ALso China trying to take from the Big Bear, are you crazy. This will be seen as a major preemptive strike agaisnt a superpower. In any case China might not be able to create support infrastructure fast enough. It is simply logistics, it will be very complex. Plus the extreme cold of Siberia favors Russia. Remeember what happened to Napoleon, then the same thing happeend to Hitler. Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

so i am sure if taiwan is unified with the mainland the living style of common people will not be changed.considering the tight relationship of economy and trade there are no reasons for taiwan to stick to its wrong decision now.it is very dangerous. furthermore the island is belonged to china from history recordation.

I�m sure some things will change but the Taiwanese would have a new leader and wouldn't be able to vote for who they wanted. Taiwan has a strong economy so they have nothing to gain by joining with china. If china wants Taiwan back the US doesn't mind as long as china does it diplomatically, but china just wants to invade it and Taiwan should not stand for that kind of intimidation.

[edit on 14-8-2004 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by WestPoint23

so i am sure if taiwan is unified with the mainland the living style of common people will not be changed.considering the tight relationship of economy and trade there are no reasons for taiwan to stick to its wrong decision now.it is very dangerous. furthermore the island is belonged to china from history recordation.

I�m sure some things will change but the Taiwanese would have a new leader and wouldn't be able to vote for who they wanted. And Taiwan has a strong economy so they have nothing to gain by joining with china. If china wants Taiwan back the US doesn't mind as long as china does it diplomatically, but china just wants to invade it and Taiwan should not stand or that kind of intimidation.

The Leader is still Chen Shui Bian, he won a razor shape thin election marked with questionable tactics.

Yes in china they deter students/people who want democratic elections they push them back and nominate someone without the consent of the Public. If it ever gets out of hand china always pulls out the tanks and threatens its own people they will be run over if they don't stop

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Uhh...are you saying a U.S. nuclear sub or a cruises cost a trillion? They defiantly do not a U.S. SSN will cost you around 1.2 Billion. And US cruiser will cost you about 700-800 million. So nowhere near 1 trillion, but still these prices are too expensive for the rest of the world. But Taiwan wont need subs cuz if it has to come to war the US Navy will probably defend it.

one question is why the US navy would do this ?
taiwan is not a state of america is it ?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Yes in china they deter students/people who want democratic elections they push them back and nominate someone without the consent of the Public. If it ever gets out of hand china always pulls out the tanks and threatens its own people they will be run over if they don't stop

China is experimenting with local elections right now, and Allow a Chinese territory to hold one of the world's largest protests in Hong Kong. What you refering to is something that happen 15 years ago and under a different adminstration.

[edit on 14-8-2004 by ahsingjai]

one question is why the US navy would do this ?
taiwan is not a state of america is it ?

It doesn't have to be part of America. This is our policy toward Taiwan, If china attacks is we are going to back them up if china takes Taiwan diplomatically then we don't a have a problem. Its the same as in 91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the US responded Kuwait wasn't an American state either.

China is experimenting with local elections right now,

Is that what you call appointing a ruler without democratic elections, correct me if i am wrong but didn't china elect someone like a couple of months ago and the people were protesting because they wanted fair elections?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Is that what you call appointing a ruler without democratic elections, correct me if i am wrong but didn't china elect someone like a couple of months ago and the people were protesting because they wanted fair elections?

It seems to me its kind of like Iraq under Hussain. Yes he held an election each year and wow he had no opposition, and 100% of the votes. AMAZING!

Originally posted by WestPoint23

It doesn't have to be part of America. This is our policy toward Taiwan, If china attacks is we are going to back them up if china takes Taiwan diplomatically then we don't a have a problem. Its the same as in 91 when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the US responded Kuwait wasn't an American state either.

why though?
there is no econimical or diplomatic advantage's to this move only tactical advantage's .
also it wasnt the US it was the UN get your facts right.and we only responeded due to american pressure and frankly america was itching for a war.

Originally posted by devilwasp
also it wasnt the US it was the UN get your facts right.and we only responeded due to american pressure and frankly america was itching for a war.

So other than US pressure? you woul dhave let Hussein stay in Kuwait and then move on to Saudi? Huh, good thing we put the pressure eh?

also it wasnt the US it was the UN get your facts right.

Funny cuz I only recall George H.W. Bush being the one saying �Saddam Hussein will not be allowed to stay in Kuwait, this is not a threat its just the way its going to be�. And where were the UN a non show as usual

Originally posted by WestPoint23


Funny cuz I only recall George H.W. Bush being the one saying �Saddam Hussein will not be allowed to stay in Kuwait, this is not a threat its just the way its going to be�. And where were the UN a non show as usual

wow calm there son so your saying that the UN never went to war it was an american only operation was it? no british or anyother forign troops entered kuwait or iraq?
funny how this story differs from the official and the british version of events.
also i dont know why they didnt say anything but they sure as hell gave the order.