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Should we allow Taiwan to Purchase SSN's

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posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by cyberdude78
Well know China has plenty of good reasons to hit N. Korea. For one N. Korea could launch nukes at them at anytime. Next there are reasources there. And it makes South Korea so much easier to attack. But yeah Siberia is more likely. Though I doubt China is going to attack Russia. Even if they do Russias far from any push over.


You may be right, but I still have the lingering feeling that the only reason Kim is still in power is the Chinese. I can't help but tothink they may be pulling the strings. The elder madman Kim, owed quite a bit to the ChiComs for bailing him out in Korea and propping up his government. the tension may be a fabrication of both countries to make China essential in any negotiations in the area.




posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 02:41 PM
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There might be an alliance going on. Of course with the Sino-Russian alliance I'm getting worried.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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Dude, for starters, lose the hostile attitude "Youd better shut up" indeed. No doubt that the history books of China give the states rendition of events in Korea. DO they also leave out the fact that Mao molested little girls? How do they handle the 30 million plus that he killed during his reign? Sure the propaganda manuals claim different, but the facts are the facts. Gtting back to the war. China did invade to support Kim, drove the allies back, then they ended getting kicked back to the 38th parallel. One surprise was lost, your vaunted ground forces lost quite a it of ground that they had gained. So what part of that don't you understand?


I seldom comment on something I think I am lack of knowledge or don't understand. Like I don't have much knowledge of middle east world and their culture, so I never post any posts on those topic. But you guys seems can comment on anything when you actually does not have much knowledge on that matter. You think you read several articles of newspapaer and read several books that attack Chinese leaders and then you became the experts of China problem ? You always say we are living in propagada, but at least I know I am living in propagada, so I see everything by my own eye, hear everything by my own ear, and judge everything by my own mind. Don't like some friends here, living in another kind of propaganda but refuse to admit it.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 07:14 PM
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but at least I know I am living in propagada, so I see everything by my own eye, hear everything by my own ear, and judge everything by my own mind.


Really you hear everything by your own ear well that is true for every one but what Chinese people are hearing is state run radio. And you may see things by your own eye but the TV stations are state run you may judge things by your own mind by the thins that you are basing your judgment on are false and PR



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 07:42 PM
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a person who lives and hears propaganda every day of his life will know how to spot it.and know what is true and what isnt.
also britain's BBC is state run and it doesnt spout out british propaganda.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 07:45 PM
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Really, Mr. Westpoint??? Did they tell you that you stole land from the Native Americans by committing the biggest genocide in history, wiping out entire civilizations? Did they tell you about the african slave trade? I bet you don't know any of that..



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
Really, Mr. Westpoint??? Did they tell you that you stole land from the Native Americans by committing the biggest genocide in history, wiping out entire civilizations? Did they tell you about the african slave trade? I bet you don't know any of that..

please lets not go down this road it tends to lead to MAJOR off topic arguments.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by xbin
I seldom comment on something I think I am lack of knowledge or don't understand. Like I don't have much knowledge of middle east world and their culture, so I never post any posts on those topic. But you guys seems can comment on anything when you actually does not have much knowledge on that matter.


Hmm two way street eh? I have serious doubts about YOUR ability to percieve reality beyond what is spoonfed to you by you ministry of promaganda. But arguing with you on this point is pointless as I have found with discussions between you and ZChang. If you look back at your posts, they are close enough that one has to wonder if you are the same person, or read from the same "How to chat with the Imperialist" manual you get in school.

On that note, I agree with DevilWasp, lets get back to the matter at hand. Should the US sell advanced submarines to Taiwan to allow themselves to defend thier Soverign territory?



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 08:41 PM
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We have already paid sh*t load of "protection money" to support your country's welfare already. And now we are paying it so US can cover up the "bullet gate" conspiracy that made the false president of Taiwan won the election. Its disguesting.

[edit on 26-7-2004 by RedHare]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Really you hear everything by your own ear well that is true for every one but what Chinese people are hearing is state run radio. And you may see things by your own eye but the TV stations are state run you may judge things by your own mind by the thins that you are basing your judgment on are false and PR



That is why you need to diversify your information, especially hear other people's opinion. I read Chinese news, Taiwanese news, Singapore news, US's yahoo news, CNN news and Washgton Post almost everyday.

When I was a student, I also doubted Mao and our system, I attended the students movement in 1989 which later surpressed by the government. After that movement, I begin to think what is China's history, does the communist party do nothing right to China, why we missed the democracy but enter a socialist society. I read a lot of books and Mao's works, and especially the articles written in 1910-1930s where many of the parties (not only Kungminton or communist party) debating what is China's future and where China should ahead, I eventually begin to understand China's reality. When I was student, I was too young with good will but does not really understand China's reality and what is our main problem.

After I went to Japan, I feel surprised about their media talking about China, because it is very different from I experienced. So I tried to argue with them about the truth and I found evetually I became a China's government defender. I don't feel especailly good of our government, but I also don't want the western media always tell their people bad things or false information about China.

Later I came and work in Silicon Valley. I see the media is still the same as what I saw in Japan, but I already know this is not misunderstanding, this is actually bias or on purpose. Both country has a group of people who are extremely anti-china. Some people say if China becomes a democratic country they will get friendship from US, but I don't think so. These people are just considering their own interests and they think China is a threat. If China bow to US and follow everything of US, can we get their friendship ? I still doubt. China is not like Philippine, China is a big country. No matter how we follow US, big country alone will still make these people un-ease.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by RedHare
We have already paid sh*t load of "protection money" to support your country's welfare already. And now we are paying it so US can cover up the "bullet gate" conspiracy that made the false president of Taiwan won the election. Its disguesting.


Please, show me the proof of any of that? Maybe it was a chinese op that did the assasination attempt. Could have been anybody.



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by RedHare
We have already paid sh*t load of "protection money" to support your country's welfare already. And now we are paying it so US can cover up the "bullet gate" conspiracy that made the false president of Taiwan won the election. Its disguesting.


Please, show me the proof of any of that? Maybe it was a chinese op that did the assasination attempt. Could have been anybody.


I said, its a conspiracy. That means anything is a possibility.
You didn't follow the news very closely did you? US was at first hesitated in acknowledging Cheng's presidency after the questionable election, but almost instantly after the informal promise made by Cheng to purchase $20,000,000,000 of weaponry from US, diplomatic personnels were sent to greet Cheng as a token of friendship. And why would the PROC help him to win the election by putting up such a show but not killing him? C'mon, use your logic. I didnt say US did it, but I do think that they know something and keeping it a secret for the sake of "extra profits".



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 09:34 PM
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Really, Mr. Westpoint??? Did they tell you that you stole land from the Native Americans by committing the biggest genocide in history, wiping out entire civilizations? Did they tell you about the african slave trade? I bet you don't know any of that..


I don't deny that we did bad things in our history or that the native Americans were almost killed off as a race but that was a different time people back then did not value human life as today and im not making up excuses but im saying look at the time when these happened but in today's world there is no excuse for oppressing people and denying them basic human rights so the Chinese government doesn't have a place in today's world.

[edit on 27-7-2004 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 26 2004 @ 11:18 PM
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China can also sell something to somebody who hates the States.

Recently China has decided to link US' selling TW weapons to MDW nonproliferation. Do we want another 911? Seems we haven't had enough people who hate the State, so we r ready to provoke the biggest country in the world, right?

Be responsible, folks.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 12:40 AM
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So what should we do turn away and let 21.000.000 people be forced to go from freedom into communism against their will nope. Plus china just said last week that they want to help the US control WMD trafficking in the world. there is a thread on here about that.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
So what should we do turn away and let 21.000.000 people be forced to go from freedom into communism against their will nope. Plus china just said last week that they want to help the US control WMD trafficking in the world. there is a thread on here about that.


More to the point, what WMD has the US sold to Taiwan? By and large most of the weapons have been defensive in nature.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally ote]Originally posted by FredT
More to the point, what WMD has the US sold to Taiwan? By and large most of the weapons have been defensive in nature.


Pentagon and some US neocon experts are arguing if they should give Taiwan some offsensive ability. 2 month ago in a report from Pentagon, it cited Taiwan can attack China's Three Gorge Dam. Last week an US expert said Taiwan can resume nuclear program at any time.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 01:46 AM
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See this report
www.threegorgesprobe.org...

BBC News Online June 22/2004
Storm across the Taiwan Strait
by Chris Hogg

Seven and a half lines of text, tucked away at the end of an inch-thick Pentagon report on the military capabilities of China's People's Liberation Army, have provoked a stream of vitriol from China's state media.
The offending passage says political and military leaders in Taipei have suggested acquiring weapons capable of striking against the Chinese mainland as a cost-effective means of deterrence.

"Proponents of strikes against the mainland apparently hope that merely presenting credible threats to China's urban population, or high-value targets, such as the Three Gorges dam, will deter Chinese military coercion," the report said.

China's state media responded that this was tantamount to terrorism, and condemned the United States for "instigating Taiwan to engage in terrorism to hurt China's core national interests".

The Bush administration of course sees it differently. But the row has again exposed the difficulties Washington faces in balancing the competing needs of Beijing and Taipei.



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 01:56 AM
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Also you can read
"Pentagon suggests Taiwan should bomb China's Three Gorges Dam"
www.poe-news.com...



posted on Jul, 27 2004 @ 06:48 AM
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I think if Taiwan wants to by offensive weapons who are we to stop them they want to also be able to defend their country and fight back its not like the US is going to sell Taiwan ICBM's or nuclear missiles Taiwan may just want a couple of missiles capable of hitting china as a deterrence I see no problem with that you have to even out the plying field.



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