Why I left Christianity - how about you?

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posted on Aug, 11 2004 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
Why?

Because I dont believe in it anymore


Did something change your mind?




posted on Aug, 12 2004 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by badkitty

Originally posted by Amuk
Why?

Because I dont believe in it anymore


Did something change your mind?



Sorry it took me a while to get back to this but I just didnt want to give it another one line answer. The following answer is not meant to be an insult to anyones elses beliefs, what ever helps you make it through the day.

I wanted to be a priest at one time, but just didnt like sex with boys.....LOL

Sorry I just had to say that


I never really left it I just kinda out grew it.
I really did want to be a priest at one time so I STUDIED the Bible and religion in general and in the end I could not honestly say I believed it anymore. I tried to make the pieces fit togather till I almost had a nervious breakdown and never did. It is a book written by man for man and while it does have some VERY deep and thoughtful passages it also contains a bunch of bull# that has been used to hold back humanity for quite a while. If you acutully READ it I dont see how you can come to any other ending.

I could give you passage after passage that are not the words of God but at best the words of man and at worst the ravings of madmen. God has condoned Human sacrafice, slavery, murder, insest, killing of entire populations,etc I could go on and on.

Jesus said not only that his words were ONLY for the Jews but the end of the world would happen in their lifetime, it changes stories over and over, it would not even pass and editor today for the mistakes in it.

For its time it was a step above what most were doing but I personally think that we as a people have outgrown this now and need to move on. The middle east is a prime example of what happens when tribal Gods are taken too seriously and in an age of nukes the end of the world is all to much of a real possibilty.

Take just birth control for instance can we really not allow people to use birth control these days? Uncontroled breeding would doom this world JUST as surely as a nuke war. This is not to even mention the laws about eating pig, unclean women and other nonsense. And they can say that we are only to follow the new testament but again it depends what quote you use, and even then they will use it when it pleases them anyhow.

Saying that a childmolesting priest can get into heaven but a good buddist will burn and suffer in hell FOREVER takes any kind of serious reward/punishment thought out of it basically just turning it into a weapon for the priests to control your lives with.

For the record I have hade a near death experience so I still believe in the soul, but I didnt see God or Jesus or satan or Santa or anybody else but I do know the soul goes on, where it goes I dont know but I know it does.

As I grow older and the fact of my mortality grows clearer by the day my mind turns back to that question more and more

I hope this answered your questions



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 08:25 PM
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The reality of the situation is that no one in Washington, whether in the Pentagon (top military brass, joint chiefs, etc) or in Congress, wants this Israeli proxy war against Iraq. Only those connected to the Israeli lobby want this war.

It is very important to know the identity of these pro-Israeli officials
within the administration in order to understand who is behind this
war-mongering and realizing that is serving Israeli interests, not American interests.

It is unfortunate that Bush has picked these people to these top posts. The sad fact for him is that in the instant that he decides not to go to war against Iraq, the Israeli lobby will bring him down, like they did to his father, a decade earlier.


Note: The Washington Institute for Near East Policy is one of the Israeli lobby's "think tank." Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.

1). Richard Perle----One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the
chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam. Perle is one of the leading pro-Israeli fanatics leading this Iraq war mongering within the administration and now in the media.

2). Paul Wolfowitz----Deputy Defense Secretary, and member of Perle's Defense Policy Board, in the Pentagon. Wolfowitz is a close associate of Perle, and reportedly has close ties to the Israeli military. His sister lives in Israel. Wolfowitz is the number two leader within the administration behind this Iraq war mongering.

3). Douglas Feith----Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one
International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is
representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq.

4). Edward Luttwak----Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq.

5). Henry Kissinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger had a part in the Watergate crimes,
Southeast Asia mass murders, Chile dictatorship, and more recently served as Serbian Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S.

6). Dov Zakheim----Under Secretary of Defense, Comptroller, and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) for the Department of Defense. He is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby.

7). Kenneth Adelman-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Adelman also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle, and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supports going to war against Iraq. Adelman frequently is a guest on Fox News, and often expresses extremist and often ridiculus anti-Arab and anti-Muslim views. Through his hatred or stupidity, he actually called Arabs "anti-Semitic" on Fox News (11/28/2001), when he
could have looked it up in the dictionary to find out that Arabs by
definition are Semites.

8). I. Lewis Libby -----Vice President Dick Cheney's Chief of Staff. The chief pro-Israel Jewish advisor to Cheney, it helps explains why Cheney is so gun-ho to invade Iraq. Libby is longtime associate of Wolfowitz. Libby was also a lawyer for convicted felon and Israeli spy Mark Rich, whom Clinton pardoned, in his last days as president.

9). Robert Satloff----U.S. National Security Council Advisor, Satloff was the executive director of the Israeli lobby's "think tank," Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Many of the Israeli lobby's "experts" come from this front group, like Martin Indyk.

10). Elliott Abrams-----National Security Council Advisor. He previously worked at Washington-based "Think Tank" Ethics and Public Policy Center. During the Reagan Adminstration, Abrams was the Assistant Secretary of State,handling, for the most part, Latin American affairs. He played an important role in the Iran-Contra Scandal, which involved illegally selling U.S. weapons to Iran to fight Iraq, and illegally funding the contra rebels fighting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government. He also actively deceived three congressional committees about his involvement and thereby
faced felony charges based on his testimony. Abrams pled guilty in 1991 to two misdemeanors and was sentenced to a year's probation and 100 hours of community service. A year later, former President Bush (Senior) granted Abrams a full pardon. He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Reagan Administration's State Department.

11). Marc Grossman-----Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs. He was Director General of the Foreign Service and Director of Human Resources at the Department of State. Grossman is one of many of the pro-Israel Jewish officials from the Clinton Administration that Bush has promoted to higher posts.

12). Richard Haass-----Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Ambassador at large. He is also Director of National Security Programs and Senior Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). He was one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the first Bush (Sr) Administration who sat on the National Security Council, and who consistently advocates going
to war against Iraq. Haass is also a member of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

13). Robert Zoellick-----U.S. Trade Representative, a cabinet-level
position.He is also one of the more hawkish pro-Israel Jews in the Bush (Jr) Administration who advocated invading Iraq and occupying a portion of the country in order to set up setting up a Vichy-style puppet government. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq.

14). Ari Fleischer----Official White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration. Prominent in the Jewish community, some reports state that he holds Israeli citizenship. Fleischer is closely connected to the extremist Jewish group called the Chabad Lubavitch Hasidics, who follow the Qabala, and hold very extremist and insulting views of non-Jews. Fleischer was the co-president of Chabad's Capitol Jewish Forum. He received the Young
Leadership Award from the American Friends of Lubavitch in October, 2001.

15). James Schlesinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Schlesinger also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle and is another extremist pro-Israel advisor, who supports going to war against Iraq. Schlesinger is also a commissioner of the Defense Department's National Security Study Group, at the Pentagon.

16). Mel Sembler-----President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States. A Prominent Jewish Republican and Former National Finance Chairman of the Republican National Committee. The Export-Import Bank facilitates trade relationships between U.S. businesses and foreign countries, specifically those with financial problems.

17). Michael Chertoff ----Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division, at the Justice Department.

18). Joshua Bolten----Bush's Chief Policy Director, banker and former legislative aide. Prominent in the Jewish community.

19). Steve Goldsmith----Senior Advisor to the President, and Bush's Jewish domestic policy advisor. He also serves as liaison in the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives (White House OFBCI) within the Executive Office of the President. He was the former mayor of Indianapolis. He is also friends with Israeli Jerusalem Mayor Ehud Olmert and often visits Israel to coach mayors on privatization initiatives.

20). Adam Goldman-----White House's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community.

21). Joseph Gildenhorn-----Bush Campaign's Special Liaison to the Jewish Community. He was the DC finance chairman for the Bush campaign, as well as campaign coordinator, and former ambassador to Switzerland.

22). Christopher Gersten-----Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary,
Administration for Children and Families at HHS. Gersten was the former Executive Director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, Husband of Labor Secretary, Linda Chavez, and reportedly very pro-Israel. Their children are being raised Jewish.

23). Mark Weinberger-----Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Tax Policy.

24). Samuel Bodman-----Deputy Secretary of Commerce. He was the Chairman and CEO of Cabot Corporation in Boston, Massachusetts.

25). Bonnie Cohen-----Under Secretary of State for Management.

26). Ruth Davis-----Director of Foreign Service Institute, who reports to the Office of Under Secretary for Management. This Office is responsible for training all Department of State staff (including ambassadors).

27). Lincoln Bloomfield-----Assistant Secretary of State for Political
Military Affairs.

28). Jay Lefkowitz-----General Counsel of the Office of Budget and
Management.

29). David Frum-----White House speechwriter.

30). Ken Melman-----White House Political Director.

31). Brad Blakeman------White House Director of Scheduling.

32). Colin Powell-----Secretary of State, ex-chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, of Jamaican origin, he has one Jewish ancestor on his father's side. He grew up in a heavily Jewish-populated neighborhood in New York, and speaks Yiddish. The first day of being picked (12/16/2000) he said he wanted to toughen sanctions on Iraq, and will work to "re-energize the sanctions regime," even though he knows the embargo has killed 2 million Iraqi civilians.

Now that Bush has hired these pro-Israel Jewish lobbyists to the highest positions in the land, they have escalated the fanatical war-mongering against Iraq, all the while they support the Israeli war-criminal Sharon in his terrorism and mass-killings of Palestinian civilians. It seems that the price of the acheiving the White House involves selling out to the Israeli lobby, much like Clinton, before him.

There are some hopeful signs coming out of the adminstration, however. Despite this strong pro-Israeli presence within the administration, it seems that Bush has not yet jumped on their band-wagon, and instead is listening to the sensible leaders and advisors, like the Pentagon's military brass, the U.S. intelligence community, other groups within the federal government, as well as from America's friends and allies around the world. No one wants this
war except Israel, its agents, and its lobbies around the world.

The question that remains unanswered is, will the Israeli lobby use (or
create) some scandal to blackmail Bush into attacking Iraq, like they used Monica Lewinsky against Clinton to force him to launch "Operation Desert Fox," in December 1998? Watch how many of the media outlets and some politicians are blaming Bush for the all the corporate scandals and the huge recession the U.S. is going through.

What Bush needs to do is use some common sense, and have some courage to stand up to these pro-Israel bullies, and act in the best interests of America, and not Israel. The first act for Bush should be to replace these pro-Israeli fanatics with patriotic Americans.



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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when they started asking me to pay for something i could't see? i thought money was supposed to buy me objects not salvation.



posted on Nov, 19 2004 @ 11:30 PM
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Whether I call Her Goddess, or God, or Allah, or Yehweh, or Mary, or Christ or Zeus or whatever, I feel I am calling upon the Source Of Creation. The Name does not matter so much to me, as to what is felt, the greater Love, and Pure Energy, that is called forth, is what really matters.



well said.



posted on Nov, 20 2004 @ 12:47 AM
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I stopped when i was 6, My favorite uncle(really moms ex-boyfriend) was not a christian. I kept on hearing on and on how people Have to accept Jesus CHrist as their Lord and Savior to go into Heaven. My uncle AInt christian ,he's shown me more love and respect than my own father! or any man for that matter! He's a good ,kind hearted man. Even now that i'm 24, he's more pure than any other man i've ever known. When i really dont' know what choices to make as a man i look to his example. To be christian(sorry folks for this smack in the face of reality of your teachings) You have to believe in christ "As your Lord AND SAVIOR" as in No person, No matter How Pure they are, have to be in the Service of "jesus" ( jesus means god, the man born from mary,NO writing before, no ideals simillar, you have to say JEsus is GOd) To be in heaven. Believe it or not , Many NOn-christians helped my famiily with clothing, food and money growing upl. they never made a deal about it. they never said "hey poor person this Is from jesus" , Instead I heard " heres some cereal and milk, Your mom is a great woman "
SOme of you might want to say "hey , your just angry out of pride" trust me i'm not, i know the difference than most might think. I wANT to say there are alot of Gosh darn Good christians out there, you have good hearts and good minds to go along. I understand now that ignorance is bliss(and i don't mean that in a bad way either!), to truly believe in something and have faith AND IT WORKs TO HELP YOU , is truly a miracle everything from bread on the table through the power of god , to having patients with kids through the power of god. I dont' want to call it god out of respect, but there is definetly something that has helped me through life(god in any testament new or old is to ignorant a word for me)liife, made me turn right instead of left(wrong) whether you call it luck , god,destiny or chance i have felt love from something great in my life. Again "accept CHRIST As your lord and Savoir" is not waht i believe, and IF YOU think what i think is ,god is christ .........your wrong! I believe that any child hinduh, moslem , or etc.... should go To a heaven , and by child , i mean everyone 10yrs 30yrs or even 100yrs. again this faith is just the feeling of something that kept me from killing myslef many times(as in shot or getting myself outta situations that might of killed me), that faith is blind and without tangible reason. But it does not Include If you dont not belive in the man written in the new Testiment as your lord and savior. Sorry folks but my god does not equal what you think, as i said To be truly christian as is understoood in most christian faiths, YOu HAVE TO ACCEPT JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR!!!!, sO IF you believe that a jewish person should go to heaven because he's a god Damn good man , Your not christian , because you Have to believe in the WHole Jesus=god, accept he died for your sins and failures. THere is nothing you can pull out of the new Testiment to argue what i believe, if your point is , Jesus you have to accept him.
I will glady go to hell with the 2/3 of the world that goes (in your christian point of view) to hell, So simply it began at six with logic and love and faith. I believe that their is a "god" no matter how ridiculliousosuousousuosusous that might seem, and i respect and am in awe of all the love you show your fellow man. As for my problems for Christianity as a religion is a different thread! that is my resonse to this thread. thank you for listenining,and have a good night!!! again You have to accept Jesus as your only way into heaven to be christian, to be more open is not be truly christian. to argue Christianity is to argue Jesus=god=going into heaven, to believe anything else and call yourself a christian is to be a hippocrite(i dnt know how to spell it) goodnite folks again, have a good night and thanks for reading this





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