Renowned economist's outlook darkens on global food prospects

very good graphage Masqua
worth a thousand words

My grandfather worked for the bigs
investing.
he said
"How do we know capitalism doesn't work ..Its never been tried"
IMHO
we are headed into fuedalism, fascism and communism...the devine right of kings

speculation is gambling
rigging the market is not

there is the problem
Gambling is a sickness
rigging is murder


BTW
i think this is critical that people see what you are getting at here
hopefull ahead of the curve
f/s

reply to post by masqua

Is our dear capitalist system actually making things worse?

Well, all the "developed" nations including the US and Canada used to warehouse food stocks for the predictable lean years. Then NAFTA and other "free trade" agreements stipulated that the corporations aka "market forces" (not nations) should control food supplies.

And here we are. Predictable and in fact, predicted. Nobody listened.

S&F& btw.

Originally posted by wildtimes

And the plight of those of us who are forced to behave in a way we find unethical because some rich bast....bastion says so? I walked away from my last job as a low-level supervisor in a major Chicago-based, world-wide corporation because management was expecting me to behave unethically, and shut up about it. I refused to do it, and was taken behind closed doors and told:

"You don't have to agree with managements' orders, you just have to follow them, and appear supportive to management."

I said, "Well, no, I don't. I don't know how you sleep at night, but if this staffer suffers a health disaster because of your stupid policies and a 10th of a percent on your stupid 'budget' report, it's on YOU. I refuse to do it."

And this is the truth. We need to stop telling ourselves "well I have to do what I know is wrong to survive."

You need to do what is right, because it is right, no matter what. I have walked away from a LOT of money in my life because the cost of earning that money was violating my own principles. And I will tell you right now, all you "poor people" who are "forced to do what you know is wrong to make your living" you are as guilty as the ones "making" you do it.

If we are going to save ourselves from what is happening in our world, we need to take full responsibility for our own actions and do what we know to be right. The only way the elite can do what they do is because YOU ENABLE AND ENFORCE for them. YOU are doing it to us.

Just stop it. If you cant do it over night, then slowly make a plan and work towards it. Its better to barely make ends meet and be a good person than it is to drive a BMW at the expense of your soul. If you are Christian, this should be self evident as Jesus said this perfectly clearly.

reply to post by masqua


Right on. Commodities traders + Gov subsidies + Agressive foreign energy devolopment = 'agflation'. Never heard that term, rather convenient. It begs the people to question the policy. Except we are always bombarded by what we could term, 'the new normal'.

Research and discussion like this needs a broader base.

reply to post by gloomyblue707


Well dont forget its not all about population growth. Its also about demand.

We did not see a banner year in terms of more people, but with India and China taking on the role of major consumers, they have more money, and they can demand a bigger share of the worlds resources. Like oil, like food, like other consumer goods.

So they are demanding more oil, more food, which means higher prices for both, and there is a knock on effect with fuel price. Higher fuel prices automatically raise food prices because fertilizers are made from petroleum, and packaging, and shipping, and production, all of those things use oil. So you get a little spiral started.

This was totally predictable. But no one wanted to listen. Just like no one wants to hear that if we do not get our population under control this is going to end very, very badly for us.

reply to post by soficrow


Ah... the 'Olde Market Is God and Knows Best' Milton Friedman Chicago School Screed.

So many still gravitate to that neo-conservatism, don't they?

Thanks for that link about the food banks. Notice how the frantic call is out to citizens to please donate more items? Less people can afford to be charitable while more people are beginning to count on the charities.

It's a dance.

Great post. I have a feeling things will start to get dire in this country very soon.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
We did not see a banner year in terms of more people, but with India and China taking on the role of major consumers, they have more money, and they can demand a bigger share of the worlds resources. Like oil, like food, like other consumer goods.

[snip]

This was totally predictable. But no one wanted to listen. Just like no one wants to hear that if we do not get our population under control this is going to end very, very badly for us.

Great post and bang on true.

More cars. More gadgets. More electricity. More more more and who can blame them? Us? Not a chance, because we're up to our necks in a sea of 'stuff'. Crank up the juice, we need more E-lectricity. We need new stuff because last year's laptops are so pooched.

Don't forget, it's all been manufactured with a 'best before' date, resulting in a sea of a new kind.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e6724f89bfc3.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e3a1dea150e5.jpg[/atsimg]

Credit for images goes to the great Edward Burtynsky

Originally posted by masqua

Somehow, I doubt that is going to work with the majority. For one thing, the various established religious structures of the world will strenuously resist allowing their congragations to switch to such Eastern mysticism.

There is a Western equivalent. Its a charism called inedia.

There are cross-cultural equivalents to all categories of mystical experience because they are universal occurrences that transcend culture, language, era, etc.

Secondly, a father watching his wife and children starve is not going to be calmly sitting under a tree (like Buddha) and promoting inner tranquility. IMHO, of course.

Yes the majority will have problems. But the Noosphere will be brought to global consciousness through a minority, and through the Noosphere humanity will survive. No matter what.

The first step is having the intention to bring the ego-self into accord with it.

well, it's got to be intentional, take a look at

www.guardian.co.uk...

Biofuels have forced global food prices up by 75% - far more than previously estimated - according to a confidential World Bank report obtained by the Guardian.

The damning unpublished assessment is based on the most detailed analysis of the crisis so far, carried out by an internationally-respected economist at global financial body.

The figure emphatically contradicts the US government's claims that plant-derived fuels contribute less than 3% to food-price rises. It will add to pressure on governments in Washington and across Europe, which have turned to plant-derived fuels to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and reduce their dependence on imported oil.

one of Iraq's 100 dictatorial orders imposed by the occupying powers includes the following provisions

rder 81 deals specifically with Plant Variety Protection (PVP) because it is designed to protect the commercial interests of corporate seed companies. Its aim is to force Iraqi farmers to plant so-called "protected" crop varieties 'defined as new, distinct uniform and stable’, and most likely genetically modified. This means Iraqi farmers will have one choice; to buy PVP registered seeds. Order 81 opens the way for patenting (ownership) of plant forms, and facilitates the introduction of genetically modified crops or organisms (GMOs) to Iraq. U.S. agricultural biotechnology corporations, such as Monsanto and Syngenta will be the beneficiaries. Iraqi farmers will be forced to buy their seeds from these corporations. GMOs will replace the old tradition of breeding closely related plants, and replace them with organisms composed of DNA from an altogether different species, e.g., bacterium genes into corn. In the long run, there won’t be a big enough gene pool for genetic viability.

source: www.uruknet.info...



this will end very badly, it's genocide and everybody knows it. if these Malthusians aren't eliminated from their current positions, the next couple of steps are very clear: first, centrifugal forces will try to end what is currently advertised as free trade at least in their location - which will have been planned for and expected by those who devised the plans in the first place, as in aggression, some excuse can always be found, even if some remote-controlled 'revolution' may be required. people will need to find ways to protect themselves against this type of 'regime change'.

at one point, a cornered country or people will use the ultimate weapon - nuclear war, even on a small scale at first would proceed on a logic of its own until the world is no more, or do you believe major powers will be able to afford to watch smaller ones being eliminated, shifting the balance in their disfavor. once people understand that they are being targetted for elimination, they will only ask one question:

how long before i lose my remaining options?

they will simply shoot before they one day find themselves at the mercy of this cartel or whatever it is. one night we'll be incinerated without warning, that's what we should really fear.

reply to post by masqua


Well the US can ship corn all over the world, since corn is being grown in massive quantities to support the greatest corporate scam in history - ethanol.

Oh, but then, big agra would not get their subsidized profits and big oil would lose all the bogus tax incentives they get for contributing to "green energy".

The amount of food that the world can produce is way in excess of what is needed. Oil takes the same amount of energy to extract and process as it did 90 years ago. Food also takes the same amount of energy to produce as a 1000 years ago. Just because it has been streamlined ie. machines to plant or reap. fertilizer cost to be added on are only incidentals. ALL of it has to do with profit, how much they can screw out of the end user. Most western governments have cut local area food production by putting huge amounts of legislation on any sort of food growing(arable or livestock) that makes it virtually impossible to produce year after year sustainable food production. GB where I live used to be self sufficient in food supply, and could still be, if there wasn't so much legislation on farming. One of the biggest reasons in England for poor food production is that farmers are paid heavy subsidies for NOT producing. This is called "set aside". It's all to do with money nothing else. If you want to bring in social engineering into the equation so be it. As for water shortage it doesn't even come anywhere into any equations when the earth is 3 fifths water. Don't say desalination is too expensive. They said that about getting the oil out of shale deposites, but its viable now isn't it. Where there's a will there's a way. If someone will pay for it. Just for an aside how much did it cost to put a man on the moon? 5 mill, 10 mill, 10 billion. What if the impossible happened and the man that produced the metal for the rocket gave it for free and all the other people involved gave their time, material and energy for free? The bottom line is it would cost nothing to put a man on the moon, Whether it's man on the moon or food on the table(no matter where in the world you live) it's mans greed against man that dictates the price.

reply to post by crayzeed


I don't disagree with a single point you make. We ARE capable of feeding every person on the planet and make sea water into potable water through desalination. What it's going to take, though, is a huge investment into infrastructure.

We should not keep damming rivers for electricity, silting them up and stopping fish migrations. We also can't siphon off everything in that river for irrigation purposes so that what eventually enters the ocean is barely a trickle.

Things need to change dramatically in almost every way because what used to work in the 20th century won't in the 21st.

reply to post by wlmgsmn


i wanna move in with you when the shtf

Originally posted by masqua


Yes, we do... but as a community, not individually. Cities need to be surrounded by their own food source much like the notion of a 100 mile diet. Imports from distant countries, while loading the grocery stores of the west, are diverted away from those 2nd and 3rd world countries which can't afford the shipping costs. This goes on at our ultimate peril for obvious reasons.

Amen. The main reason I chose Tennessee was its plentiful sun, rain, fertile soil, etc. We need to as communities move towards local food production, including home gardens. Humanity is headed for a big crash. Its inevitable at this point. As groups, we need to begin to move ourselves into places where we can provide the basic necessities of life totally independently of the bigger system.

Not all by yourself. The hermit thing wont work, but as communities groups of people will pull through.


As for how do we get rid of corporations, we need to make it very unfriendly for them in our communities. Push them out. I would love to see the form outlawed. It was a horrible idea in the first place, born totally of greed and the desire to have no consequences for the harm you cause others, and humanity will pay for embracing it. Its already grown out of our control, and man now serves corporate ends, not the other way around.

But if we cant outlaw then next week choose against them. Buy nothing from them. Do your best to not work for them, just every single time you can choose against them, do. We need to move towards not only producing food locally, but producing jobs locally too. Small businesses that are part of a community behave like members of a community because they have to.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

I think you said that quite well

those that don't learn to live together will die together
I choose Ontario on the edge of the Canadian schield for the same reasons you chose Ten.
it is possible to live without "them" here
is one applies him/ourselves wisely
even as thing are.
Food shelter medicine entertainment clothes
Its all right there

*bump*