Wisconsin : FIGHT BACK !

Originally posted by doom27
# this. Seriously you guys are all being bitches. If the american people should rebel, it shouldn't be over some workers union BS. What the hell guys, other people have to deal with way more #. I live in USA, in a state that doesn't even support unions, think about even your fellow countrymen, on top of that the millions not in the USA, who wouldn't even have thought something like workers unions existed.

Seriously these protesters need to grow up, what the hell people.

Deal with it.

Ah, so since you live in one part of the toilet bowl, everyone else should eat # too, is that your viewpoint?

How about we make the whole toilet better? How about we make the whole thing not a toilet anymore?

Originally posted by doom27


Yeah its a civil right revolution for abunch of pussies who don't know what to do with their life if something happens with their job.

Why are we wasting our time rebelling about something as little as this, this is what i don't get, don't encourage these people.

We the people demand the truth, not some get out easy cards.

Why aren't we protesting for answers for 9/11?
Why aren't we asking for answers for the Vietnam war?
Why are we not asking to rid the electoral college?
Why are we not questioning the Federal Reserve?
Why are we not figuring out what is backing up our currency?
Why are we not demanding to not send more troops to Libya?
Why are we not fund raising for the japaneese?
Why are we not out of Iraq?

The list goes on in on, seriously is this crap.

Because no one cares unless it specifically affects them and their dinner plate...i thought you knew this. Instead of calling people "pussies", you should be happy they are waking up at least a little, and maybe spread some information their way.

The longest journey begins with a single step.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Yes the car thing is a myth. (well sometimes, but its rare)

But seriously i understand his point, i advise you try to see it his way.

I am 20 years old, i decided to be successful. I didn't waste my money on college, i didn't become a crack addict. I did my public schooling, found what i am good at, started work at 16, and at 18 got an amazing job as a Network Administrator. It wasn't who i knew and who i blew, i worked my way here.

And guess what?

Since i've been 18 i've had to pay over 400 dollars in state income tax. No i don't been 400 total, i mean the 400 outweighed the 800 some i received from federal. And to what? Support a bunch of bums?

Sure there are disabled people i would gladly fund, but seeing all these junkies i know who just get off living off taxes makes me #ing sick.

Just wanted to put my 10 cents in your chat.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Yes the car thing is a myth. (well sometimes, but its rare)

But seriously i understand his point, i advise you try to see it his way.

I am 20 years old, i decided to be successful. I didn't waste my money on college, i didn't become a crack addict. I did my public schooling, found what i am good at, started work at 16, and at 18 got an amazing job as a Network Administrator. It wasn't who i knew and who i blew, i worked my way here. I worked hard. I worked very hard, i gave it my all.

And guess what?

Since i've been 18 i've had to pay over 400 dollars in state income tax. No i don't been 400 total, i mean the 400 outweighed the 800 some i received from federal. And to what? Support a bunch of bums?

Sure there are disabled people i would gladly fund, but seeing all these junkies i know who just get off living off taxes makes me #ing sick.

Just wanted to put my 10 cents in your chat.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by doom27


Yeah its a civil right revolution for abunch of pussies who don't know what to do with their life if something happens with their job.

Why are we wasting our time rebelling about something as little as this, this is what i don't get, don't encourage these people.

We the people demand the truth, not some get out easy cards.

Why aren't we protesting for answers for 9/11?
Why aren't we asking for answers for the Vietnam war?
Why are we not asking to rid the electoral college?
Why are we not questioning the Federal Reserve?
Why are we not figuring out what is backing up our currency?
Why are we not demanding to not send more troops to Libya?
Why are we not fund raising for the japaneese?
Why are we not out of Iraq?

The list goes on in on, seriously is this crap.

Because no one cares unless it specifically affects them and their dinner plate...i thought you knew this. Instead of calling people "pussies", you should be happy they are waking up at least a little, and maybe spread some information their way.

The longest journey begins with a single step.

edit on 25-3-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)

I understand you.

I guess its more of the people of ats, not so much them. As you said, if they don't know it affects them, they don't care. They don't understand much we at ats know. (or think we know that is)

Still, i stand firmly by my belief that this is an obscure reason to protest and get mad about.

I do agree with you in this, one step at a time. This, might lead them to more, i can only hope, before its too late.

Edit: Saw your first reply, i think you get where i was coming from now though, i don't want people to suffer because of me, i just think this is... i don't know... very selfish? Its like hitting the easy button, and complaining it didn't work. If they really don't like living without those benefits, they should leave, and go to a state that does have them. I still believe in my state government at times, i feel the states are still doing what they have to do, i work at government municipals constantly, i feel (granted i'm not from Wisconsin) that they are doing this for a reason, i seriously doubt the state gov would try to screw people for no reason.

I once had the displeasure to meet Michael Moore. He was trying to get in to film at a firm for which I was then working. As the person in charge cowered in a corner office, I was told to go and try to get the paper he kept saying gave him permission from our corportate headquarters. HQ had told us to get the paper because if he was just saying that he had one (when he didn't) that was lying but if he had a doctored sheet of paper he was forging and they would take legal action.
I never got the paper and I never gave him permission to enter. He was a HATE FILLED, hate filled, hate filled man. I recognize that perhaps he felt he was acting on the right side of an "oppressive" situation, but he lied, he was rude, and the general vibe I got from him was one of the worst in person vibes I have ever experienced.

I have since watched several of his films. They are interesting, but knowing that he will lie to get in, makes me wonder exactly how staged certain situations are and I do not consider him a high quality source no matter his noteriety.

Originally posted by doom27
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Yes the car thing is a myth. (well sometimes, but its rare)

But seriously i understand his point, i advise you try to see it his way.

I am 20 years old, i decided to be successful. I didn't waste my money on college, i didn't become a crack addict. I did my public schooling, found what i am good at, started work at 16, and at 18 got an amazing job as a Network Administrator. It wasn't who i knew and who i blew, i worked my way here.

And guess what?

Since i've been 18 i've had to pay over 400 dollars in state income tax. No i don't been 400 total, i mean the 400 outweighed the 800 some i received from federal. And to what? Support a bunch of bums?

Sure there are disabled people i would gladly fund, but seeing all these junkies i know who just get off living off taxes makes me #ing sick.

Just wanted to put my 10 cents in your chat.

I see that point. Now see my point:
That tax money you are paying is because billionaires and a ultra-rich multinational corps DONT WANT TO PAY THEIR TAXES.
So it falls to the middle class to pay...the poor are too poor to pay, and they rich can afford lawyers to get tax breaks.

So who should you be more mad at, jimbo on the corner who eats mac and cheese 7 nights a weeka dn gets a crack rock every day from welfare, or Mr. Banker, who owns 3 sports cars, a yacht, a 500K house and pays about as much in taxes as Jimbo does?

THEY HAVE FOOLED YOU INTO BEING MAD AT OTHER POOR PEOPLE, INSTEAD OF THE ULTRARICH WHO ARE #ING EVERYBODY. If we had a fair system, there would be enough food for everybody, and the rich would still be rich, just not obscenely Im-wearing-golden-underwear-with-my-name-in-diamonds rich.

Seriously, I dont understand how people are not getting this.

Actually I could take pictures of their cars,probably will as I intend to turn them in or make hud explain how they qualify for subsidized housing yet can afford a $40k dollar car.

I would let them off for job interviews and 1 day a week to hunt for a job. First you'd have to make the jobs available for something like this to work. I'm fairly old I've seen generational welfare in practice,it becomes an addiction,we have to stop this.

As I said I dont have the answers but our social programs are greatly abused by many. Take my neighbor he gets disabled from his job at the prison because he has anger issues and may kill a prisoner (his words not mine) anyways he's on disability for his mental illness. He still has guns,he can even substitute teach and coach our kids in football???? Well, now there is really nothing wrong with him except he is lazy and he does what he wants but he is gaming the system because he can. This is whats killing our budget abuse of social programs plays a huge part in it.

The fact remains our social programs right now make up about 50% of our budget but I guess you can justify more so I can pay more taxes for something I may never receive.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

You are trying to defend such a system now! We give the fruits of our labor to the banks and oil monopolies, and we are only allowed to have what they want us to have, in terms of wealth and technology....and people like you are HELPING MAKE IT HAPPEN. WHY?

I certainly would defend the current system over socialism/ collectivism, yes. I don't like our current situation, but it's not a diffcult choice. Here's the difference: we have a CHOICE whether or not we turn our money over to the corporates or not (well,except in the case of taxes- which the liberals constantly want more of). Higher confiscation (taxes) in support of these "economic rights" you are talking about ISN'T a choice. See the difference? The banks and the oil companies don't take money arbitrarily out of my paycheck before I even get to see it- and then (insult to injury) distribute it to "causes" that I would never support- against my will.
People come to this country- and love this country, because of that choice and that potential to be compensated for their hard work. There is zero potential in collectivism- zero initiative, zero motivation, zero fulfillment,, and zero reward. Now, there may be some satisfaction in the feeling of entitlement (which could well be an inflated sense of self worth- much like the corporate CEO...or union boss) and "getting something for nothing", but that is a psychological issue and doesn't (Thank God) apply to people in general.
Most people like a little satisfaction along with their financial gain and are more concerned with how we're doing than wasting time envying the accomplishments of others.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


I edited last post to you, but i think you have me wrong.

I am not blaming them, i'm not bad at them. I'm mad at something far beyond that. I understand the rooting of the middle class. make two, one of rich, and one of poor.

But that wasn't my point, my bad for the miscommunication, i just feel, why are these people complaing over something so mundane, i feel it gives off the American sterotype of us being fat and lazy, and i can't stand that, not because it makes me look fat and lazy, but it makes all of us look like that. If i were from another country i would be sickened by the selfishness of the American people.

Originally posted by hapablab
And Hell No to Socialism.

You probably live in a country with socialized education & socialized police force...

reply to post by DogsDogsDogs


damn i raged before i read your post, thank you, someone beat me to it.

Wasn't the governor of Wisconsin just elected? Wasn't he elected by telling the residents of Wisconsin exactly what he was going to do? So in a way didn't Wisconsin already fight back? Against Union thuggery?

Originally posted by PinkAndBlack

Originally posted by hapablab
And Hell No to Socialism.

You probably live in a country with socialized education & socialized police force...

UI

Nope
I live in Chicago Ilinois, yes the birthplace of Obama's comunity service, where you can't walk a block in downtown chicago without a kid from the colleges shoving socialist pamphlets in your face or try to make a point on global warming only to be shut down when confronted with facts.
Or like Clint Eastwood up there stated, Where welfare recipients can drive escalades and wear Nike shoes while collecting welfare and living in a 4000 squarefoot home in a neighborhood that use to be nice, in a home that now costs 20,000 dollars because the nieghborhood is sh** yet its actually worth a million.

Im sick of the abuse, lets get rid of the rats first.

Oh and for the record, Rachel Maddow's boss, is owned by GE, who paid zero Taxes last year, so the libs complain the rich get tax breaks yet their own boss paid absolutely no taxes last year lmao hows that work?

I am mystified as to why people think that loss of union rights is a small thing. Whether you are for them or against them, on neither side are they considered small.
There are certainly abuses in the public sector. Unions don't make those abuses go away and do indeed m ake it more difficult to get rid of them. That's too bad because we should be able to fix obvious abuses as they are found.
However, I think that the U.S. should be very wary of the current attack on unions. There is a very clear element in this country that would very much like to see the rich have and the rest not. Sound too socialist for you? Sorry, I am a Republican and can't deny the simple truth that is being laid out everyday now.
If the people are ever to going to push back it has to start someplace. Personally, I would have preferred that it started when corporations first started taking away pensions and any semblance of job security. When they started outsourcing jobs but retaining American "branding". But, it didn't. This is a major line in the sand. If it is crossed, where exactly is the next one?
Suze Orman is now saying that the new normal is for sixty percent of Americans to be lifetime renters.
So much for the American dream. Now, in addition to not owning substantial property, the majority of Americans won't even own (minus the regular fees to the government in the form of property tax of course) the place where they sleep? It's sad.
As far as being embarrassed by the ruckus and protesting over something so small: there have been large protests in European countries because of austerity programs which call to roll back the standard of living and raise the retirement age. The entitlement programs they are looking to reduce (not eliminate) are programs we don't have here in the states. Their retirement age AFTER the changes will still be lower than ours.
I do not agree with posters in various threads who call for revolution or claim that all is lost. But I do think we need to stand up for ourselves and stop hiding away hoping that our silence will keep them from coming for what we have left. It won't.
I study politics and economics and still really don't get the social aspect of how this managed to happen to this country. I believe we can fix these problems. I believe in accountability. But everything is so erratic anymore. The pendulum swings too quickly from one extreme to the other and the so called "American way of life" is getting lost in the shuffle. I suspect that people feel that even if they aren't able to fully articulate it. I suspect that regular Joes on both side of the union fights actually want the same thing. A return to the life they anticipated. They just aren't sure who to blame for its loss or how to get it back.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
The banks and the oil companies don't take money arbitrarily out of my paycheck before I even get to see it- and then (insult to injury) distribute it to "causes" that I would never support- against my will.

Actually, they do. They do this every single minute of every single day. You obviously just do not understand how fractional reserve banking and corporate subsidies work.

I dont know how I can make this simpler for you to understand. I wish I could help you. Here, I will try.

The banks and large companies are stealing your tax money. Not republicans, not Democrats, not liberals or conservatives, because they are all the same thing. Beautiful things you should have, like large parks, clean cities, a retirement, free health and dental care, things that could have been paid for 20 times over, have been stolen from you. The money has been used to fund illegal wars and occupations, death and misery, illegal counterfeiting, and served to enrich a very select few. They have stolen your money, used it for their own gain, and have brainwashed you into helping them do it. I dont know how much simpler I can make it.

Originally posted by hapablab

Originally posted by PinkAndBlack

Originally posted by hapablab
And Hell No to Socialism.

You probably live in a country with socialized education & socialized police force...

UI

Nope
I live in Chicago Ilinois, yes the birthplace of Obama's comunity service, where you can't walk a block in downtown chicago without a kid from the colleges shoving socialist pamphlets in your face or try to make a point on global warming only to be shut down when confronted with facts.
Or like Clint Eastwood up there stated, Where welfare recipients can drive escalades and wear Nike shoes while collecting welfare and living in a 4000 squarefoot home in a neighborhood that use to be nice, in a home that now costs 20,000 dollars because the nieghborhood is sh** yet its actually worth a million.

Im sick of the abuse, lets get rid of the rats first.

You actually just sidestepped the question, or you cant comprehend it. In Chicago Illinois, your polics force and education systems are socialist. The alternative would be like a private mercenary force like Blackwater patrolling your town, and only private schools to send kids to. I have not been to Chicago recently, but Im pretty sure thats not how I remember it.

There is a reason police and firefighters are socialized, its in everyones bests interests for it to happen that way (except for the guy who owns the security company).

Originally posted by hapablab
Oh and for the record, Rachel Maddow's boss, is owned by GE, who paid zero Taxes last year, so the libs complain the rich get tax breaks yet their own boss paid absolutely no taxes last year lmao hows that work?

edit on 25-3-2011 by hapablab because: (no reason given)

First off, if her employers paid no taxes last year, and she is saying this on the air, how does that benefit GE? So what is your point? Its not like they are saying all billionaire corporations except GE should pay...maybe if they did you would have a point.

If I had to pay taxes and my bosses didnt, its like I say "Oh, well my boss got away with it, and I actually in secret love the fact that I got screwed while my boss got off scot free! Its great to be a liberal!"

We should be thankful the corporate masters even allow this viewpoint on the tee vee....but Im sure this fact is mentioned all the time on Fair and Balanced FOX, right?

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

Originally posted by hapablab
Oh and for the record, Rachel Maddow's boss, is owned by GE, who paid zero Taxes last year, so the libs complain the rich get tax breaks yet their own boss paid absolutely no taxes last year lmao hows that work?

edit on 25-3-2011 by hapablab because: (no reason given)

First off, if her employers paid no taxes last year, and she is saying this on the air, how does that benefit GE? So what is your point? Its not like they are saying all billionaire corporations except GE should pay...maybe if they did you would have a point.

If I had to pay taxes and my bosses didnt, its like I say "Oh, well my boss got away with it, and I actually in secret love the fact that I got screwed while my boss got off scot free! Its great to be a liberal!"

We should be thankful the corporate masters even allow this viewpoint on the tee vee....but Im sure this fact is mentioned all the time on Fair and Balanced FOX, right?

OMG GE and Obama are basically lovers, NBC is the biggest hypocrit around, im not a fox fan either, but I would watch that before watching msnbc anyday because the last time I watched that channel they did nothing but insult anyone and anything that disagreed with their beliefs, they couldn't have a civilized argument if they tried, the only reason its actually on the air is because they benefit this obscure attempt by the tptb to encite "revolution" which means IMO civil war between the right and left, Take Ed Shultz for example can he go a day without putting someone down? Thats why ratings for that channel blow.

Obama is the biggest puppet of them all, he got the votes because he LIED, and now all the pieces are falling into place, he is for the banks, he is not for the middle class, nor for anyone else other then the uber elite and I truly believe he is the downfall of this country, Do you really believe that this "socialist" ideal will ever happen?, no it won't, the damn constitution will have to be redone, now that obviously will not happen ever.

You call me a slave, yet I look at you and you dream of a world where everyone shares or they die, I think your a slave when you actually think that anything like that will ever happen.
You are living in a small fishbowl of unrealistic hopes. How about Michelle Obama get off her ass and stop worrying about what our children are eating in our school and start paying attention to how bad our schools actually are! Test scores are the lowest around, we are at the bottom of the food chain so to say when it comes to our academics, and yet shes running around when not on some vacation telling kids to move, and how to eat.
Its all a disguise sweetheart, "lets keep the country dumb enough to where they will never figure out that we really don't care" thats what they think, they want us dumb, they dont want us to notice what is actually happening, Lets take the word "revolution" how many times this week have you seen this word or heard it on television, radio, internet?
Do me a favor and watch a Bing ad, they are all over the net, notice the key words, "revolution, Bing says it almost all of them, and the words Vitriol, union thugs, civil war, meanwhile we are all getting mad at each other and not noticing the higher ups are taking us for a ride, Libya, healthcare, for crying out loud Israel and Palastine are minutes away from literally destroying each other. So you just sit back, worry about unions, and taxes and while your occupied with this, our freedoms are slowly getting ripped away.

As for Chicago, this damn town is so corrupt with snakes and fool politicians its a crying shame, This place is the hub for this wretched mess we're in.