reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
I'd first like to mention that I believe in God and am what you would call a 'Christian', but want to make a few points based off the posts you
made in this thread. I'm not going to be hostile or attack you, so if you choose to respond, please keep that in mind.
I watched a show last night about end time prophecies and they pointed out (in addition to what many have said about the vagueness of many of
the "signs") that there is a self fulfilling element to the prophecies.
In other words, there are people who believe in these prophecies going out of their way to ensure we actually do have war in the Middle east. LOTS of
people trying with all they have and are to make a war in that area.
First, there is no way to know for sure whether these events are being self-fulfilled or not, but the main point that is being looked over here is
this: The Bible is written in a way (as mentioned by another poster in this thread) to be observational. It's designed to tell you what's going to
happen. Assume these are self-fulfilled or not, the Bible still states it will happen in the end of times.
To look at this in another perspective - look at the 12th Imam. Currently, the Radical Muslims (Not the Cultural Muslims, but TPTB in the Arab
countries), believe that they can hasten the return of the 12th Imam by shedding the world in blood by causing, basically, a World War III. The 12th
Imam is nearly an exact replica of the Christians' Anti-Christ in the Bible, and so, though these radical Muslims believe they can "hasten" the
return of the Prophet, they're really just playing the part that our Bible said they would, and that is, cause these events to happen.
So yes, they may be "self-fulfilling" in one sense of the word, but they still happen, just like the Bible says it would.
People who believed in the Bible MADE that happen. Its not like it randomly and spontaneously happened all on its own.
Using that as proof of the truth of Biblical prophecy is like my opening a door and then saying "whoa! did you see that door open?" and pretending a
ghost did it.
There's flaw in this claim you're making here, and I already addressed that issue above when I spoke of the Radical Muslims in control over the arab
countries - They certainly do not believe in -our- Christian Bible, yet they are fulfilling events that the Bible foretold would happen. That also is
a fairly poor example you gave - better yet, let's pretend you were to say, instead, "That door's going to open right now", and you followed
through by opening the door. Were you wrong? Certainly not.
You would be considered cheap though, I think many would agree on that - luckily the Bible isn't so one sided. It has the advantage of foretelling
these events nearly 2000 years ago and assumed how advanced our technology would be to be able to see these events happening for our own eyes in the
comfort of our homes.
You would be surprised how many of these debunkers are more familiar with the teachings of Jesus and The Book than some "true Believers"
I wouldn't. Like I pointed out earlier, there's many who claim to be Christians who don't actually practice it - and there's roughly an equal
number of "debunkers" as there are "true Believers", it just so happens that the "debunkers" speak out more than us.
In fact the reason some of us dont hang out on Sunday with some of you is because we ARE familiar with the teachings of Jesus, and know that
what you are doing aint it.
Again, I have to agree with you assuming you are speaking again to Christians who don't practice their faith, however, you can't judge some one who
you do not know nothing of their personal lives. Which leads me to...
You forgot to add the part where you are judging people you dont know, and calling them names and hating them in long public rants.
Jesus LOVES when you do that.
Jesus says to "judge by the fruit of their labor", and, if I may say so, I don't see how "judging" anyone is a sin. The only people who have a
problem with being judged, are those guilty of their crimes. Should a man commit a murder and be sent to court, the Judge would obviously lay down the
law on him, and he would be sent to jail (hypothetically speaking, we'll discuss corruption in our courts later), should he be found guilty of his
crimes - however, should a man who has not done a single crime to merit a guilty verdict, he has nothing to fear - the same way a man of good fruit
has nothing to fear against being judged.
Sorry if that sounded like I was getting off-track, but the point I was trying to make is this:
Read your posts, and read mine or really, anyone elses in the thread, and you tell me which ones seem bitter and hate filled.
this was directed at the person you quoted, but to be honest, you did insult his beliefs, and in a sense, you both were in the wrong. As I mentioned
above, he was judging you based off your fruit, and what he saw was you attacking his beliefs, it shouldn't be a surprise to see him get
Also, I apologize if I made an errors or got off track too much, since I am fairly tired but wanted to put my input in before I forget this thread
exists. I wanted to respond to a few posts in this thread, but yours seemed to stick out for some reason (I blame your shiny avatar). If you wish to
respond, I'd be glad to have a conversation with you when I can, because, at the very least, it would be a bit more direct and effective than me just
stepping in from the sidelines out of nowhere.
Finally, to stay on-track with the thread; OP, I appreciate the work you put into all of this and I plan on going through all of it as soon as I can.
I don't need convincing myself, since a lot of these signs are becoming more apparent by the day, but it is certainly handy for me to have as a
source of reference.
S&F for you efforts, and may God bless you.