Deny Ignorance...What happened to that?

If I'm posting this in the wrong forum, then I apologize and the Mods can move.

I lurked on ATS for a long time before I finally decided to join last November. I found the information presented on here to be thought provoking, detailed, and presented in an intelligent manner. But lately, I believe the posts in all the forums have degenerated into a squabbling mass of oneupmanship. I find more and more posts being written that provide no proof of the point they're presenting. Posts simply stating "That's a stupid point of view". What value does that add to the discussion. Don't get me wrong, I believe the Mods do a fantastic job of keeping up the decorum in the forums, but sometimes they miss posts lik this. Why would womeone even post this?

So, back to Deny Ignorance. I'll give you a current example of one of the recently posted topics. It has to do with 2 Japanese tourists going to China and China stating that these people had radiation levels "seriously exceeding limits". What does that actually mean? What are the Chinese limits? What was the contamination level on the tourists? What type of radiation was it? The thread posts didn'[t focus on any of these questions. It focused on ...omg I knew the Japanese government was lying to us. They very well could be but nobody provided any facts to state that belief.. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. I thought we were supposed to research and provide that knowledge so others wouldn't remain ignorant. I don't see that happening and it's very disappointing and a disservice to all of us here on ATS.

Let's get back to what we do best, providing theories and beliefs that we have developed based on the facts we have found and respecting the people presenting facts that are in opposition to what we believe based on our research.

Healthy debates, providing valid research is what this place is all about. Let's get back to it

Lately it's become more of a punch-line than a motto.

I agree. It seemed to start going down hill the same time the Japanese disasters occured. It could be because we got very little information out of Japan about what was really going on at their reactors, so conjecture was rampant even at the MSM's.

This is a brief summery of what ATS now stands for:

Apathy
Hatred
Inequality
Racial Discrimination
New aging
Atheism
Gay rights

reply to post by fltcui

The only way to curb this menacing behavior of the members, is to remove quote and reply-to buttons from the posting area. These buttons should only be on the main OP/thread. That way only the topic of the thread would be addressed by the members. And you will see no dog fights among members.

For replying to post by other members, off topic discussions, abuses, insults etc., members can use the PM feature. In a thread only the thread topic should be discussed.

I have mailed this suggestion to the ATS staff, what do you think of it.

reply to post by Serizawa


No.

Thats a brief summary of how some people who come to ATS think, in a manner that resflects some members of society.

As the content on ATS is user generated - and by that we mean that the posters themselves drive the subject matter and responses - what you are actually complaining about is the quality of posts you see by users.

The best way to counter that is not to jump on threads that complain about how "bad" ATS is supposedly becoming, and instead get out onto the board and post quality threads and information yourself.

Be the change you wish to see.

"The only way to curb this menacing behavior of the members, is to remove quote and reply-to buttons from the posting area."

Then people would only do stuff like this to get around it. Besides, it's a totally controlling and stifling thing to do. ATS is supposed to be about discussion. I see a thread as a room full of people talking about something. There are going to be things that other people say that I want to respond to. Like your post here in this thread. But I'm not attacking you. That's where the problem comes in... when people start attacking others for their opinions.

And you will see no dog fights among members.

You're fooling yourself if you think this would stop the fighting on ATS.

As to the original post... I don't think people know what deny ignorance means. They spout it out as if it's a tool to wield against other members. Denying ignorance is something each of us should do for ourselves. It's not a weapon to attack other members with...

What happened to it? I don't know. There are a few members who still know what it's about, IMO. And they're fun to have discussions with. Protoplasmic Traveler comes to mind. Or Spartan King Leonidas, Slayer69, David 9176. These are all members who can show us what the denial of Ignorance looks like. But sadly, there are FAR more who don't have a clue, IMO.

Thank all of you for your thoughts. I am in no way bashing ATS. All I'm trying to do is get people to refocus on educating themselves and then sharing this information with others in the threads.

We can learn a lot from each other especially if you're willing to research the thoughts of others whose opinion is diffeerent than yours

Ignorance is.

Can't say it more clearly than that, but with all attempts to bend away from human nature it is a lofty goal. To seek truth is not something that can be reached but more of a lifelong struggle.

It's natural that the effort will fail, but the attempt should be made and is a respectable position to have. It is not management's fault that a good percentage of members have no intention of really seeking truth, because like most religious folks, they feel they have already found it.

When you feel like you have reached the truth, you lose and the journey tends to end.

Peace
KJ

Thats nothing new i think if you read old threads you will find that ATS has always been like that.

Originally posted by CanadianDream420
Lately it's become more of a punch-line than a motto.

lol im reminded of your "if you dug a hole through the earth from japan you would come out of ontario canada" thread

reply to post by Serizawa


Rather;
Hysteria
Hatred
Inequality
Racial Discrimination Towards everything American Caucasian
New Fluff
Atheism Aswell as Religious Extremism
Gay Hatred

I guess its just turned into opinions everybody has one.
Facts you don't need them Fox said so.
Just insult people with facts and post your opinion even more. Persona software works for that.

What you are looking for is INTELLIGENCE. A rare commodity nowadays in most online environments.
I think that the best we can do is SELECT the topics we participate in, the ones we choose to get involved in, etc. When everything is allowed as a topic of conversation, then the environment becomes a sort of Bazaar... It is inevitable, given that membership is open to everyone, as it should be.

So, start threads that you consider of value, stay involved in them, make your point. What the rest of us will choose to do cannot be in anyone's control, regardless of how good our intentions are.

Also, remember that a forum/site that runs advertising, WILL BENEFIT from as much traffic as possible.
Think about it...

reply to post by fltcui

"Deny ignorance" became disoriented in a fog of chemtrails and fell to it's death into a suddenly opening chasm during a HAARP created earthquake.

It's spirit, however, is still occasionally channeled by a small percentage of members...

"Deny ignorance". It's a challenge, not a goal. You either accept it, or you don't. We have to start with our own. After all, every single one of us is ignorant about any number of things. It's a process, hopefully a collaborative one. At least, that's how I see it at the highest level of aspiration, when it's working the way we know it can.

What none of us can do, if I may quote from that sage philosopher Ron White, is fix stupid.

More people thats what happened. Be the change you want to see, personally deny ignorance and if you see someone trolling just ignore them. They will eventually go away.

Originally posted by subject x
"Deny ignorance" became disoriented in a fog of chemtrails and fell to it's death into a suddenly opening chasm during a HAARP created earthquake.

It's spirit, however, is still occasionally channeled by a small percentage of members...

You have no idea do you? Through my personal research ATS was for the disccussion of those very things. Straight from Simon Gray
members.fortunecity.com...
HAARP,aliens,UFOs, Majestic 12 and a while bunch of other stuff. It wasn't until the KGB took over that everything did a 180. And ill just highlight the double think here at ATS if you go to the home page right there there is a link to the streetview which has a preview picture that says "mainstream media sucks" but if you go to the "alternative" news section you will find that most of the "alternative" news comes from mainstream media. Also, the alternative new section is marked your favorite automatically when you sign up.
It is not about denying ignorance it is all about getting the most people on the net to come to ATS as a news site to get $$$ off clicks and adds.
Here are the top alternative news threads and their sources right now.
Libya Reportedly Ready for Talks, Reforms and Possibly Election- from Fox News
Israel ready to react with 'great force': Netanyahu, - From AFP (a mainstream global news agency)
Canadian Commander to take charge in Libya.- Van Couver Sun
15 protestors shot by Syrian Troops- Fox News
The brewing civil war no one is talking about- MSNBC

reply to post by fltcui


I don't think one should rely on an OP to provide all information as you insinuated.

From what I have seen many of the best threads involve an Original Post with a really interesting subject and only some of the proof or information when those here who enjoy the topic provide information on both sides of the topic allowing a third party to make a decision based on facts and possibly join in the debate.

This still exists though on some topics it is difficult. I am really annoyed on threads that have anything to do with sexuality. While the subject is VERY important to anyone concerned with government and religious control of the people and conspiracy it can almost never be discussed because people immediately jump on their preconceived notions and ignore fact, reason, and logic. This is demonstrated by both of the Anti-ATS posts above that both mention sexuality in one form or another (both opposite by the way).There are several other subjects where it is the same and the sad thing is it is universally these subjects which need to be handled and reviewed on a site such as this if we ever want to achieve any real insight into the human condition...

Originally posted by Serizawa
This is a brief summery of what ATS now stands for:

Apathy
Hatred
Inequality
Racial Discrimination
New aging
Atheism
Gay rights

This is what YOUR ATS now stands for actually. It's what you make it based on where you go, what you see and what you type. Nothing like "MY" ATS.

So....What happened to "Deny Ignorance"?

....Where did you put it?

Bring truth, light, research, discussion, opinions, civility, acceptance, restraint and respect coupled with the willingness to persevere, and you may once again be Denying Ignorance.

Part of the problem, or part of the solution...or is your reality someone else's responsibility?

Just sayin'

If YOU had done the research and taken the time to post as much information about the things you reffered to in your OP (Japan) instead of complain someone else didn't, then you would have been denying ignorance big time and others would bathe in the light of that information.

So....where did you put it?

reply to post by nerbot


That's when the bashing begins, They try and try to make you look stupid for not thinking along their lines.