The Higher Up masons, page

reply to post by SIKKAthanMOST

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there are several side orders that are dedicated to the knights templar but the historical connection has not been made. Scholars have been trying to make the connection for decades. Most masons think it would be great to have that lineage added to our story, but as of now, the proof does not exist. There are groups that claim to be knights templar operating now. www.knightstemplar.org... are they connected to the Knights of legend? depends on who is telling the story.

reply to post by network dude

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I've been thinking about this a lot. It's been alleged from within the fraternity (though I'm not sure how to check it) that Grand Masters in the SMJ's jurisdiction can usually expect a white hat to endear themselves to the agenda of the Scottish Rite, and intra-fraternal conspiracy theorists went wild when Rex Hutchens tried to shut down the Shrine in Arizona. I have to accept it as theoretically possible, however improbable, that the "higher ups" in the 33rd degree manipulate the blue lodges toward their "agenda" (whatever that may be) by bringing Grand Masters into their ranks.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

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I was thinking more along the lines of the invite only groups that you don't know about unless you ask, or unless you are invited. While I am sure the 33rds have their secrets, I wouldn't think they would be the keepers of some big secret. There are too many of them to have to keep something big completely secret. (IMHO) When you start to hear about all the side groups that Masonic light and Ksig are part of, it kind of opens up that thinking, since most of us have never heard of these groups.

I have been fascinated with the Rosicrucians for a while and I think there may even be something there, but I don't know the tie in with masonic Rosicrucians. There is a while lot of mystery within our circles. It's amazing what you can find once you start digging. The questions and answers have always been there, but you have to ask the questions in order to even come close to finding the answers. I am not even sure I believe in the hidden group theory. I was just theorizing.

Originally posted by network dude
When you start to hear about all the side groups that Masonic light and Ksig are part of, it kind of opens up that thinking, since most of us have never heard of these groups.

Surprisingly, most Masons haven't although they have never been secret. Practically all of the grand bodies of the invitational and honorary bodies have websites:

Grand Council of Allied Masonic Degrees of the United States

Masonic Order of the Bath

Grand Council of Knight Masons of the United States

York Rite Sovereign College of North America

Convent General of Knights of the York Cross of Honor

High Council of the Masonic Rosicrucian Society of the United States

Provincial Grand Lodge of the United States, Royal Order of Scotland

United Grand Imperial Council, Masonic and Military Order of the Red Cross of Constantine and Orders of the Holy Sepulchre and St. John the Evangelist

Grand College of America, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests

reply to post by Masonic Light

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That sounds perfectly reasonable. I think which side of the issue I fall on is pretty clear. That said, I understand the logic behind some in the Burning Taper crowd taking such a position, especially re: the aforementioned incident.

reply to post by network dude

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I just hate the ones who won't define the "high vs low", but still insist that all of us here on ATS are low level Masons.

Freemasonry is really decentralized group; one could say, a confederacy.

I am very fond of the York Rite College, being a ritualist organization dedicated to assisting the Blue Lodge and York Rite bodies with the ceremonies around the area.

reply to post by SIKKAthanMOST

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It's only a theory, heavily romanticized throughout history. Now there is a body referred to as the Knights Templar in the Masons, but we take the name out of commemoration of the Templar ideals and values. We don't claim to be descended from them in any way.

reply to post by OnTheLevel213

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I never knew Rex tried that. I met him during his year as Grand Master at a cornerstone dedication.

reply to post by network dude

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If you go to the York Rite website they list the honorary bodies that belong to the York Rite. Many of these groups, at least in my area, only meet once in a great while (2-3 times a year). I find them all truly fascinating and it was an honor to be invited into both the OHP and York Rite College. It will likely be some years before I do much more in Freemasonry as I want to devote much time to each of the groups I now belong to.

reply to post by network dude

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The first thing that you have to know about Freemasons is that they are the absolute masters of deception particularly amongst its own members at all levels right up to the top of the pyramid, which is the location of that illuminated all-seeing eye. The second thing you need to understand is that by the very nature of the beast, a secret society, they are engaging in activities that need to be hidden because of their wide unnacceptability.in general society. The oaths taken on joining to never question higher authority, or reveal the business of the fraternity to the outside world, make the Freemason the most dangerously untrustworthy predatory animal on the planet. I do not doubt that many members genuinely believe in the brotherhood, morality and charitable expressions of purpose, and of course it is imperative to the maintenance of public tolerance that such people exist as P.R. s to sincerely declare the good intentions and abscence of sinister plans for world domination. And they have performed brilliantly by being genuinely nice, so nice in fact that they are oblivious to the reality of their manipulation.

Originally posted by rewind10000
reply to post by network dude

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The first thing that you have to know about Freemasons is that they are the absolute masters of deception particularly amongst its own members at all levels right up to the top of the pyramid, which is the location of that illuminated all-seeing eye. The second thing you need to understand is that by the very nature of the beast, a secret society, they are engaging in activities that need to be hidden because of their wide unnacceptability.in general society. The oaths taken on joining to never question higher authority, or reveal the business of the fraternity to the outside world, make the Freemason the most dangerously untrustworthy predatory animal on the planet. I do not doubt that many members genuinely believe in the brotherhood, morality and charitable expressions of purpose, and of course it is imperative to the maintenance of public tolerance that such people exist as P.R. s to sincerely declare the good intentions and abscence of sinister plans for world domination. And they have performed brilliantly by being genuinely nice, so nice in fact that they are oblivious to the reality of their manipulation.

Oh God, here we go again. Some of the Masons on here, know my qualifications. I know the upper-ups, I have been an upper-up. What is so wrong with the Illuminati? your beliefs on who they were are fairy tales made up by churches and governments in Europe. And where, in what ritual, do we swear to never question higher authority? I have done it all, save for the 33rd Degree, and who can get higher up than that? no one. I'm growing absolutley tired of people that have never stepped inside a Lodge, have never taken the Steps, but yet claim to know absolutely everything, get out of here and just go away

reply to post by Masonic Light

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I was in Arizona for the 2nd half of Rex's year, but I was out in the field training most of the time. He invited me to the Grand Lodge, but I couldn't take him up on his offer. Great chess player though.

reply to post by rewind10000

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We do not deceive our members. That is absurd and rude to say, especially as a non-member who knows not how the internal operations are ran. Unless they've really looked into it, many don't research the York Rite or its invitational bodies.

Freemasonry and its structure is not one of pyramidal design, but one of a tree, branching out. Freemasonry is composed of different branches that have its own leadership structure. Each of these branches, bodies, and orders still fall under the policy that they must have approval of the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge in order to operate in any given jurisdiction. Many assume with the number of Scottish Rite degree equals one's rank in all Freemasonry. This is not so. One's position and title may vary from body to body, but holds significance in that body (except on special occasions where Grand officers of various bodies are introduced, but are not given special favor).

Our use of the all-seeing is for representing God, not a council of men.

General, free society has no issue with us. Only in oppressive societies has Freemasonry ever been held is bad regard. The enemies of Freemasonry, it has been said, are tyranny, fanaticism, and ignorance. No activity of Freemasonry is sinister.

Our charity work is laudable. Only fools attack the work we do. Why would any member doubt the brotherhood. I've traveled the world and seen the brotherhood in action. There is no call for world domination at any level of the Order.

I do ask however that you please describe to us this pyramid design (ie what bodies go where leading up to the top).

reply to post by TheForgottenOnes

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I don't ever remember taking an oath to never question either. I can't speak on the Scottish Rite, but I assume they are similar to the York Rite, save for the minor differences that vary from body to body.

So much power resides in the Blue Lodge and with the Grand Master, but so many make bad assumptions based on either ignorance, lies of the past, or from hate and intolerance in all its forms.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by TheForgottenOnes

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I don't ever remember taking an oath to never question either. I can't speak on the Scottish Rite, but I assume they are similar to the York Rite, save for the minor differences that vary from body to body.

So much power resides in the Blue Lodge and with the Grand Master, but so many make bad assumptions based on either ignorance, lies of the past, or from hate and intolerance in all its forms.

its funny, I belong to 2 Grand Lodges, and I know both Grand Masters personally, I am assistant Grand Lodge Educational Officer, I have studied Masonry in every part of this Earth, I have never heard of this oath, nor would I suspect my Grand Masters to be in some nefarious plot to overthrow the Governments of Earth

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