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We need a geoengineering forum..."Chemtrail" properly geoengineering, threads do not belong instan

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posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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I'm posting this here in skunkworks as I have no clue where else to post it, it seems like all posts on geoengineering are moved here anyways.

I thought "chemtrails" were a hoax. I've been in a few threads now where geoengineering has been discussed and changed my mind. I use geoengineering as those who want to seriously study it will find all the real scientific papers and political papers under geoengineering not "chemtrails." I think the vernacular should be changed by all who want to forward the debate as using "chemtrail" shoots the argument in the foot as searches on "chemtrails" do not come up with the scientific papers.

I find the evidence compelling even if it does not provide conclusive proof. There are several theories that provide circumstantial evidence. This is a site which caters to the conspiracy theories according as is written in several places. Well.. this is a conspiracy theory with much more evidence than many on this site. Just because many view the evidence differently does make it any less valid.

I find several forums on ATS that have a lot less debate than geoengineering much more speculative with much less data. I know a lot of the mods and people who pay for and run ATS view geoengineering as nothing but a hoax, but there are a lot of us (and I just switched to this view) who think there is something to this and it deserves to be discussed.

I don't know 100 percent geoengineering has begun. But I do know they are planning it, and it's a mater of "when, not if" according to their own words. So this needs to be addressed in a much broader way.

There are no end of threads on this topic. There are a lot more threads on this than there are on "conspiracy theorists" for example. I humbly submit it deserves it's own forum. If I can shoot for the moon (not sure this is even possible) it deserves two mods also - one from each side to moderate the other. ATS has wonderful mods, not suggesting it doesn't. But I think this would deescalate an oft expressed feeling of one-sidedness many have expressed in the way some situations have been handled.

I've not seen another subject as hotly debated. Which is even more of a reason it needs it's own forum. You want to draw outside people into ATS... well... this is a big draw. It is a conspiracy many of the non conspiracy minded are drawn to also. So maybe it can enhance the bottom line as well by having a easy to access forum which does not scare away people with being branded as skunkworks.

Thanks as always for providing a wonderful site and all you do!




posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 04:52 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Good post OP S&F. I agree with you. I saw a documentary with a woman named Rosalyn Peterson. She expresses some of the same concerns. She is the founder of Skywatch California. It was based on the geoengineering aerosol spray activities in my area. It's about an hour long but lots of good info.

EDIT:
In the first 10 minutes she describes how she was asked to be a key note speaker at the UN and she also talks about the SCOOL program by NASA.



Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch was a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. She now spearheads a watchdog group that monitors uncontrolled experimental weather modification programs, atmospheric heating and testing programs, and ocean and atmospheric experimental geoengineering programs Peterson is at the forefront of the chemtrail research field and how the unexplained patterns that scar our skies are "causing detrimental human health effects and environmental degradation."
edit on 25-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add text



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:06 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


I was watching the video. Starting around 8:00 she starts to say how she refuses to use the term chemtrail and only uses geoengineering. And how she is getting invited to nasa etc now and taken seriously.

I think this is vital to this debate. We must switch the discussion away from chemtrail to geoengineering. Language is everything. As in the written words perception is based upon vernacular. Word choice shows educational level.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


I agree, using the term chemtrail seems to immediately place a tinfoil hat on yourself. Although I still think that I'd rather where a tinfoil hat than breathe chemtrails.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:24 AM
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Slightly off topic but ........

The Tinfoil hat lady seems pretty smart to me



A little knowledge and comedy from the Tinfoil hat lady




posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 


This video you presented is absolutely the way we need to go.

"they tried to keep geoengineering out of the public. they admitted they kept it out of the textbooks" wow! This woman is amazing. One of the best videos on geoengineering I've seen! She goes into how to change the discussion to geoengineering very well.

We have got to shift the whole discussion to geoengineering to expose this and stop using "chemtrail".

Ats really needs a forum on geoengineering because, as the video points out. There are a lot of geoengineering experiments going, not just aerosol spraying.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


I agree with you that there should be a forum all itself for this topic. I have noticed a few threads on Geoengineering in the fragile Earth forum. If chemtrails is not the main topic of th OP they seem to do ok and not get moved.

Did you see the reason I think chemtrails is in the skunk works section?

SKUNK WORKS



en.wikipedia.org...


Skunk Works is an official alias for Lockheed Martin’s Advanced Development Programs (ADP), formerly called Lockheed Advanced Development Projects. Skunk Works is responsible for a number of famous aircraft designs, including the U-2, the SR-71 Blackbird, the F-117 Nighthawk, and the F-22 Raptor. Its largest current project is the F-35 Lightning II, which will be used in the air forces of several countries around the world. Production is expected to last for up to four decades. The designation "skunk works", or "skunkworks", is widely used in business, engineering, and technical fields to describe a group within an organization given a high degree of autonomy and unhampered by bureaucracy, tasked with working on advanced or secret projects.


other geoengineering techniques
edit on 25-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add pic



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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Another one of the very dangerous Geoengineering techniques is the algae blooms. It tampers with the natural balance of the Oceans ecosystem. The "concept" (I call it a concept even though we have seen some strange appearences of algae blooms in some areas over the years recently) is to genetically modify algae so it absorbs extra carbon particles from the air. But the effects have been shown to be dangerous. The modified algae is eaten by plankton which is then eaten by fish. Some of those fish end up dying because they have a large build up of methane gas in their stomaches due to the extra carbon in the plankton that ate the algae. Some of the large fish die offs can be blamed on this. Although there is no actual "proof"


www.krqe.com...
edit on 25-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: add video

An estimated 1 million fish turned up dead on Tuesday in a Southern California marina, creating a floating feast for pelicans, gulls and other sea life and a stinky mess for harbour authorities. Boaters awakened to find a carpet of small silvery fish surrounding their vessels, said Staci Gabrielli, marine coordinator for King Harbor Marina on the Los Angeles County coast. Authorities said there was also a layer of up to 1.5 feet (0.46 metres) of dead fish on the bottom of the marina. All indications are that "this is unusual but a naturally occurring event," said Andrew Hughan, a Fish and Game spokesman at the scene.
edit on 25-3-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Although I agree, ATS admin will argue that Skunkworks is a reputable forum though many would disagree..

Heck, if the Japan issue gets it's own forum then why not Geoengineering/Chemtrails ??



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


I'm sure there are as many threads on "chemtrails", which I again say we should stop using and insert geoengineering as it is the term scientists and politicos use, as japan.

@Mat I happen to like the term skunkworks. The problem is those who deny geoengineering make fun of the subject because it is put here by moderators. I could post quotes where key individuals practically parrot a school yard mantra "skunk works skunk works"...



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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I hope this discussion does bring about some positive results.


Many threads on Geoengineering are left to stand in the other forums, as they should be.

Anything less is a travesty, as geoengineering is real, has been carried out already to some degree.

Proof of that is here in this thread, even has an article from Reuters:

United Nations Urged To Freeze Climate Geo Engineering Projects

[Size=4]U.N. Urged To Freeze Climate Geo Engineering Projects
www.reuters.com

The United Nations should impose a moratorium on "geo-engineering" projects such as artificial volcanoes and vast cloud-seeding schemes to fight climate change, green groups say, fearing they could harm nature and mankind.

The risks were too great because the impacts of manipulating nature on a vast scale were not fully known, the groups said at a major U.N. meeting in Japan aimed at combating increasing losses of plant and animal species.



Originally posted by pianopraze
reply to post by MathiasAndrew
 

.
We have got to shift the whole discussion to geoengineering to expose this and stop using "chemtrail".


I agree, however...the professional debunkers will not stand for that, as once the terms are correct, their argument is all but lost. They will bring the word into the argument., the goal being to discredit.

Geoengineering is real, its billions a year of industry, and its not going away.

The Powerful Coalition That Wants To Engineer The World's Climate

A Future Tense Event: Geoengineering The Horrifying Idea Whose Time has Come?


And we can not ignore the fact that the idea of modified planes, part of the scheme to release stratoshperic aerosols has been proposed, and is the preferred method, according to the Elite Royal Society.


But the option that is taken most seriously is altogether grander in conception and scale. The scheme proposes nothing less than the transformation of the chemical composition of the Earth's atmosphere so that humans can regulate the temperature of the planet as desired. Like volcanic eruptions, it involves injecting sulphur dioxide gas into the stratosphere to blanket the Earth with tiny particles that reflect solar radiation.

Various schemes have been proposed, with the most promising being adaptation of high-flying aircraft fitted with extra tanks and nozzles to spray the chemicals. A fleet of 747s could do the job.

Above Top Secret

www.guardian.co.uk

royalsociety.org
www.pnas.org
www.guardian.co.uk
edit on 25-3-2011 by burntheships because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by burntheships
 


Post after post you amaze me with the shere quantity and quality of your information.


Between you and mat I've changed my mind on this whole issue.

Black is more tenacious than I am, I weary of posting so much and don't have the emotional energy to respond like he does.

We must switch the fight to geoengineering turf. Otherwise we are fighting on the geoengineering denyer's ground and they can more easily manipulate the argument towards tinfoilhatitus.

As you all have so eloquently demonstrated here is the hard science papers. Here are the political actions. Here is where the fight needs to take place. We need to, like the lady in Mat's video, refuse to use the term chemtrail and always shift to geoengineering.



posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by pianopraze
 


Its true, the facts are all in plain sight.

Scientifc papers, Elite societys, mad scientists, politicians...carbon tax....
its all right there in black and white.

Yet I am amazed, thread after thread of pages and pages of back and forth semantics.



Guess some like the game...

I however just like to collect all of the documents, the articles...and the proof.

So that someday, when its revealed that this was already underway...there will be vindication.

Lets just throw this into the mix, as last time I checked this info had not even been posted on ATS
anywhere.


At an international symposium held in Ghent, Belgium May 28-30, 2010, scientists asserted that “manipulation of climate through modification of Cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory.” It is “fully operational” with a solid sixty-year history. Though “hostile” environmental modification was banned by UN Convention in 1978, its “friendly” use today is being hailed as the new savior to climate change and to water and food shortages. The military-industrial complex stands poised to capitalize on controlling the world’s weather. “In recent years there has been a decline in the support for weather modification research, and a tendency to move directly into operational projects.” ~World Meteorological Organization, 2007 real-agenda.com...




The only conspiracy surrounding geoengineering is that most governments and industry refuse to publicly admit what anyone with eyes can see. Peer-reviewed research is available to anyone willing and able to maneuver the labyrinth of scientific journals. So, while there is some disclosure on the topic, full public explanation is lacking. A brief list of confirmed cloud seeding events is produced at bottom, starting in 1915.

Going under a variety of names – atmospheric geoengineering, weather modification, solar radiation management, chemical buffering, cloud seeding, weather force multiplication – toxic aerial spraying is popularly known as chemtrails. However, this is merely one technique employed to modify weather. The practice of environmental modification is vast and well funded.real-agenda.com...


Case Orange Report rejects the use of the word "Chemtrails" precisely becuase it is associated with ameteur conspiracy theories.

This is why the professional debunkers like the word, its a stumbling block.
They throw it out there, and people trip.

Hopefully, many here on ATS will read this, and correct the language that contributes to the semantics.




posted on Mar, 25 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by burntheships

its all right there in black and white.

Yet I am amazed, thread after thread of pages and pages of back and forth semantics.


At an international symposium held in Ghent, Belgium May 28-30, 2010, scientists asserted that “manipulation of climate through modification of Cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory.” It is “fully operational” with a solid sixty-year history. Though “hostile” environmental modification was banned by UN Convention in 1978, its “friendly” use today is being hailed as the new savior to climate change and to water and food shortages. The military-industrial complex stands poised to capitalize on controlling the world’s weather. “In recent years there has been a decline in the support for weather modification research, and a tendency to move directly into operational projects.” ~World Meteorological Organization, 2007 real-agenda.com...




The only conspiracy surrounding geoengineering is that most governments and industry refuse to publicly admit what anyone with eyes can see. Peer-reviewed research is available to anyone willing and able to maneuver the labyrinth of scientific journals. So, while there is some disclosure on the topic, full public explanation is lacking. A brief list of confirmed cloud seeding events is produced at bottom, starting in 1915.

Going under a variety of names – atmospheric geoengineering, weather modification, solar radiation management, chemical buffering, cloud seeding, weather force multiplication – toxic aerial spraying is popularly known as chemtrails. However, this is merely one technique employed to modify weather. The practice of environmental modification is vast and well funded.real-agenda.com...


Case Orange Report rejects the use of the word "Chemtrails" precisely becuase it is associated with ameteur conspiracy theories.

This is why the professional debunkers like the word, its a stumbling block.
They throw it out there, and people trip.

Hopefully, many here on ATS will read this, and correct the language that contributes to the semantics.



“In recent years there has been a decline in the support for weather modification research, and a tendency to move directly into operational projects.”
Ibed BTS source

Wow


So they don't even bother to do any safety checks when paper after paper shouts warnings that we will probably end up hurting ourselves!

Semantics becomes one of the key tools to disinformation agents. Watch them at work on ATS. I was pointing it out repeatedly when they would shift the semantics... but I grew tired of it. Post after post of slick disinfo techniques.

If there is nothing to geoengineering why use all these techniques instead of strait up counter? Why cherry pick and straw man, and deride? They began calling anyone who believed in geoengineering a paranoid delusional... I flagged a couple and there was no action taken. If I called someone paranoid delusional you think my post would be allowed to stay? How about schizophrenic?

This is why I say we need moderators who are on both sides of this subject. When you are agreeing with someone, or they are your friend, human nature makes you less likely to flag them even when they insult someones sanity. This to me is a huge T&C but not one of these posts is removed. I know ATS mods have a very hard job and agree with most of their calls even ones I don't like I see most of their logic. But everyone that calls, or insinuates someone has a mental disorder should be T&Ced.

Also being in skunkworks, people are allowed to troll more, it seems in my opinion. This thread seems to allow a little more gloves off. Geoengineering is a science with millions, if not BILLIONS of dollars a year ALREADY being thrown at it. I think this definitely deserves it's own forum.
edit on 25-3-2011 by pianopraze because: trying to fix formatting



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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Interesting this got like no play today.

The silence is deafening.

They do NOT want to fight the fight on this ground. We have got to switch the field of battle to geoengineering and away from chemtrails.



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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Geoengineerong videos from fora.tv .....These videos are experts talking about geoenginering. The techniques, risks and potential consequences involved

Video List
fora.tv...

Geoengineering: Global Salvation or Ruin?

Should humans address man-made rising temperatures and sea levels by tinkering further with mother nature? A lively debate about geoengineering has burst into the mainstream

fora.tv...


A really inconvenient truth

Dan Miller's presentation focuses on why the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change) reports are actually best case scenarios

fora.tv...



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 05:22 AM
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posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by pianopraze
 


Although I agree, ATS admin will argue that Skunkworks is a reputable forum though many would disagree..

Heck, if the Japan issue gets it's own forum then why not Geoengineering/Chemtrails ??


I personally dont think Geoengineering/Chemtrails need a separate forum and you can't compare it to Japan. Japan was a natural disaster and it needed its own forum, it was taking over the others. Yes people discuss chemtrails on here but nothing like the Japan incident.

I dont know anything really about chemtrails. I wouldnt be surprised if they are real nothing surprises me anymore with what "they" do to us. I personally have never seen anything like what people say or post. Some of the things I see posted are just from planes because it is exactly what I see and I am around about 4 airports and there are always a ton of planes in the sky. Some of the pics I have seen from the UK though are nuts, the black lines, those seem suspicous to me and I have never seen that happen here and I am always looking up at the sky. Interesting topic and I know many dismiss them, I just keep an open mind on it.

Can you put geoengineering and stuff like that in science and technology? Personally I think Skunk Works fits for it and I find many interesting threads in Skunk Works incl the reptilian ones



posted on Mar, 26 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by pianopraze
 



www.abovetopsecret.com...


Oh wow! Sweet! I was about to google this topic


Thanks Hugh, I mean Chad



posted on Mar, 27 2011 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


Thanks for your thoughts mb


I used to think much like you... not at all really about it. I'm actually getting quite tired of talking about it as few people are thinking. Mostly just bickering.

Thanks for posting





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