I have to say, I think everyone in Tokyo is in deep denial.

From what I hear there are millions of people still living there. Why don't they L E A V E ? Even if they can't leave Japan, surely they can go to another city or something.

These people must be traumatized somehow. That's the only thing I can think. It can be like a hypnogogic state, trauma. It can make you soft and open to the world, like a little child. It's very dangerous like that.

I think that might be what's going on over there.

Can an entire city or society be traumatized like that, to the point the basic perception of reality is warped?

Can an entire society be in a trance state?

Not only Tokyo, my friend. We all are.

They are a culture who have the "saving face" attitude.Basically to never let outsiders see how upset they are.To hold the cards close to the chest.

It will be the undoing of them though,sugar coating everything does not wash with people anymore.

reply to post by Tarnished Templar


You hit the nail on the head, Templar... Trauma.

I've recently been studying MK Ultra and trauma based mind control. Not only celebrities, but we as a society are conditioned with trauma on a daily basis. Looks like Japan got a little too much and severe child like vulnerability set in...

This is a nasty accident and more accurately: next gen warfare.

Originally posted by Tarnished Templar
Why don't they L E A V E ?

Where exactly do millions of people on an overpopulated island?

The media asked the same thing after Katrina in New Orleans.

It is not like the masses are free to move around, at will, is this fancy new world.

Peace

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by Tarnished Templar
Why don't they L E A V E ?

Where exactly do millions of people on an overpopulated island?

The media asked the same thing after Katrina in New Orleans.

It is not like the masses are free to move around, at will, is this fancy new world.

Peace

OK, fair enough.

But if I were there I would at least be trying to get out.

The roads are open. There are no sentries posted. The city is not in curfew or under lockdown (that we know of).

Why don't more people leave?

Originally posted by Tarnished Templar

These people must be traumatized somehow.

Well, let's see.... A major earthquake that registered an 8.9, moving the entire coast of Japan about 13 feet and causing extremely devastating damage. A major Tsunami that wreaked even more havoc on the country killing even more and doing even more damage.... major risk of severe nuclear fallout.... Whole industries destroyed. Their economy down the toilet.... The fact that it could take decades and decades to fully recover ( if they can ever do so).......

Yeah.... I would say it is a safe bet that they are traumatized.... And yeah, leaving? You think that would really solve their problems? I wouldn't leave either.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth

Originally posted by Tarnished Templar

These people must be traumatized somehow.

Well, let's see.... A major earthquake that registered an 8.9, moving the entire coast of Japan about 13 feet and causing extremely devastating damage. A major Tsunami that wreaked even more havoc on the country killing even more and doing even more damage.... major risk of severe nuclear fallout.... Whole industries destroyed. Their economy down the toilet.... The fact that it could take decades and decades to fully recover ( if they can ever do so).......

Yeah.... I would say it is a safe bet that they are traumatized.... And yeah, leaving? You think that would really solve their problems? I wouldn't leave either.

edit on 24-3-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

Your reply was a really great contribution to this thread. Really...

reply to post by gimme_some_truth



People who are directly assaulted by the quake (lost their house, physically injured, family killed, etc.) is not what I'm talking about here. There, the trauma is obvious. The thread title specifically mentions Tokyo.

Most of the people in Tokyo have not lost their houses. Most people in Tokyo did not lose relatives (30 million in Tokyo vs. 30,000 killed nationwide -- do the math). I don't know about the economics of it, but I'm doubting that alone could account for 30 million people just going on with their lives after something like this, with the plant still belching radiation and all this bad news about water and food supplies running out in the city.

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by Tarnished Templar
Why don't they L E A V E ?

Where exactly do millions of people on an overpopulated island?
The media asked the same thing after Katrina in New Orleans.
It is not like the masses are free to move around, at will, is this fancy new world.
Peace

Also -
To the Japanese mindset it is better to do one's duty and die than to evade one's duty and run.
To the Japanese mind it's better to die trying to support yourself than to live on charity.

Their duty to the company and to the country is quite unlike what Westerners understand.
Their horror of living with the shame of being a burden is enough to drive many to suicide if they see no other option.

So if their jobs are in Tokyo they stay.
Peer group pressure is also working, with people who do leave being taunted as cowards.

Many of those who have the means have sent their wives and children elsewhere.

reply to post by Kailassa


I am particularly curious about the "taunting" part. is this really happening? How do you know, if so?

reply to post by Tarnished Templar


I'll help you out with that. This was posted in another thread:

Expats in Japan Tiptoe back to the Office

One foreigner, a fluent Japanese speaker at a large Japanese company, said that his Japanese manager and colleagues were "furious" with him for moving to Osaka for three days last week and that he felt he was going to have to be very careful to avoid being ostracized upon returning to work in Tokyo.

"There is a split between [the Japanese and foreigners] on where their allegiances lie. In Japan, the company and family are almost one and the same, whereas foreigners place family first and company second," said Mark Pink, the founder of financial recruitment firm TopMoneyJobs.com, based in Tokyo.

As a previous poster said, this kind of mentality will be their undoing.

Most people are tied to a location due to being employed there, and it's a tough job market with over 10 years of Japanese recession. Few people can afford to quit their job and move in that environment. Can add in the deep desire to not move away from family and friends too.

It's a risk vs. reward situation, and right now the risk doesn't exceed the reward for most Tokyo residents.

And the years rolled slowly past,
And I found myself alone,
Surrounded bv strangers I thought were my friends,
I found myself further and further from my home...

Tiny 'overpopulated' country
High national pride for their beautiful country

The two only points that need to be stated. Are you going to run from your country if/when it has a disaster like Japan did just to be comfortable instead of helping it out? Get off Japan's back. Just because they don't fear, your ego is subconsciously wanting them to fear.

They are also limited with regards to food and water.

Tokyo is being supplied. Where they may run to will not be set up to feed, water and house the influx.

The stereo types of the Japanese people may or may not be correct. The one thing we can all understand is the fear of being cold, wet and hungry and the need to provide for our kids.

They have no real options to make running a choice.

Run from what?
Nuclear threat - well, officials there spare no effort to convince them that everything is under control. "No more radioactive tap water" sort of thing.
Quakes and tsunami did not hit Tokyo very hard. Work places are open, it is living city - not a ghost.
Leaving work might be equal to quitting and i doubt there are lots of jobs opportunities at the moment plus finding another place for a family to live in Japan will cost a lot of money.
Finally add Japanese tradition and culture and you will see why there is no mass exodus.
Certainly there are some who do leave Japan for a while since there is sharp rise in Japanese tourists here but i have no doubt that Japanese will rebuilt whatever property that was lost very soon. Life loss is different story but Japan went through worse things several decades ago.

If I may add a few comments about Japanese culture and thinking regarding this disaster -

- many (if not most) Japanese people place an enormous amount of blind faith and trust in their government to take care of them

- many (if not most) Japanese people have been overly-pacified to not (openly) question things

- many (if not most) Japanese people simply cannot think for themselves

- critical thinking is almost non-existent in Japan, especially anywhere outside of the larger cities

- 'the nail that sticks up gets hammered down' syndrome is alive and well in Japan. Many Japanese people are afraid to speak out with their opinions or ask serious questions for fear of being ostracized, isolated and ignored by their coworkers, neighbors, family, and 'friends'- especially if their opinions and questions are unpopular and go against group thinking. It is amazing how quickly people can turn against you. The society pressure to conform is enormous. Why do you think the suicide rate is so high in Japan?

- group thinking still rules Japan, although the younger generations are slowing becoming more individualized

Despite these things, Japan and her people is still a wonderful country with many, many positive things. Some of the kindest, most unselfish people you will ever meet. And I'm certainly not trying to stereotype the Japanese people. Some do think outside of the box. I cannot speak for all of Japan. These are just my personal, first-hand experiences, plus anecdotal stories I have heard and conversations I have had over the years with Japanese people. Take it for what it's worth.

And regarding suddenly evacuating all 43 million people from the Tokyo Kanto area... not going to happen. There is simply not enough housing across Japan to handle that many displaced people on short notice. No way- unless they all lived in tents. Even if they could be evacuated from the Tokyo area and relocated to other parts of Japan, the distribution infrastructure across Japan for food, water, etc to care for 43 million displaced people could not handle it. Also, many people in the Tokyo area do not have enough savings to voluntarily evacuate. Moreover, many would refuse to voluntarily leave. I hate to say this, but lots of people in Tokyo will eventually die if things get really bad with the radiation. I cannot see any other outcome, unless there was a massive forced evacuation by ships and planes to other countries such as Australia, US, Canada, etc. If attempted, it would be the largest humanitarian effort ever witnessed.

Maybe because they have a life to live?
Try telling you boss "Hey, I'm going to leave for awhile peace"
You will be getting fired. Sorry to say, but this is a dumb thread.
The answer is so obvious, because they have jobs!!

reply to post by Tarnished Templar


30 Million people live in Tokyo.

Do you expect them to just get up and leave? It's not even feasible.

reply to post by colin42


It's not really about stereotypes..

It's just a different culture. And while what the OP pointed out it is stated in a very blunt manner... It's also true.