Christianity: A Few Points and Questions

reply to post by Vicky32


Give specific examples of Hitchens lies. Is being in the thick of war zones brought on by religious nuts one of them?

reply to post by Akragon


Torah, Quran, Mormon etc.

What of the other religions of the world too. Do you believe them all to have some connection with one God? And since these belief's and morality are not perfect, do you think God is not perfect, but maybe merely another form of life evolving and learning?

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
reply to post by Akragon

 

Torah, Quran, Mormon etc.

What of the other religions of the world too. Do you believe them all to have some connection with one God? And since these belief's and morality are not perfect, do you think God is not perfect, but maybe merely another form of life evolving and learning?

the Torah and the Quran have the same message, i've never read the book of mormon but i'd only assume the same. LDS are the nicest people you'd ever want to meet regardless of their belief.

It doesn't matter what peoples beliefs are my friend, we all come from and go to the same place.

I suppose it comes down to your own definition of what God is...

reply to post by Akragon


My definition of God is fictional.

The book of Mormon is racist (having a new "revelation" to ease their way further into society only shows to me how fraudulent this religion is, and there are many things to be picked at in their book) and Joseph Smith was a loon.

Your belief's still appear enigmatic to me, but since I don't feel anything other than curiosity during our back and forth, i mean it in a good way.

Do you think God would allow me entrance into Heaven? (The God you believe in)

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
reply to post by adjensen

 

This is just like the "argument" that morality is nothing without God, which is, honestly, hilarious. You see, you still cannot find a single case of an atheist committing horrible acts BECAUSE they were atheists, where as anyone who knows even the basic of history (I know much more than basic) can see religious people have killed BECAUSE they are religious.

Actually, I provided you with a fairly good argument for the case that most "horrible acts", whether by atheists or not, are done because of a disbelief in God. Guess you didn't see that. However, your perspective, which seems to be "if an atheist does something bad, it cannot be due to atheism, while if a theist does something bad, it must be due to their belief", is unreasonable and indefensible. If a moral law says "do not kill", and someone kills, it doesn't matter what their claimed belief is, they demonstrate disbelief.

A man demands sinners (homosexuals, adulterers, brats, incest, PERIOD SEX!? WTF!?) be murdered and openly commands the murder of children (I could go on, but like i said in an earlier post, your mind is shut to what your bible contains anyway) and another man says homosexuality is fine, adultery and incest (Only on the basis of pregnancy - Incest) is wrong, but not bad enough to warrant death, brats are just kids, and period sex, who cares?

Which is the better man?

Again, since you don't believe in God, you just seem to be wrapping anti-semitism in some sort of anti-God agenda. If you think that God, in the Bible, is evil, but you think it all a fabrication, then you're saying that the people who wrote and believe in the Bible are evil. As history has demonstrated the opposite (yes, let's just ignore history because you don't like the BBC ) you're not scoring any points on the "tolerance" scale.

And I assume that, by your continued ignoring of the question, you have no basis for claiming that McGrath is a "clear fraud", so I guess that we can end things there, as that was the only opinion of yours that was unique and of interest.

reply to post by adjensen


One law of the plagiarised commandments says not to kill, but the specific laws of God in Leviticus call for death to sinners. Just because you interpret the "good" laws of the bible to be canon and shove away the rest does not mean that murderers who kill sinners are disbelievers. They're murdering sinners. God commands!

Your argument for this is invalid. Have you even read the bible? And to suggest I'm racist for thinking the bibles morality is evil is disgusting. I didn't sign no concordant with Hitler, and i sure as hell won't be teaching my children to hate Jews by raising them as catholics. How dare you suggest I'm prejudice against jews for having an opinion? I would've happily taken the place of all those poor jewish children gassed to death if it meant saving them. To suggest this is a #ing outrage. But apparently it's not an outrage to believe in a book that promotes laws for slavery.

I have given evidence why the BBC is disinformation, and could give much more, but what would be the point? I'm appealing you to not trust the BBC, as Murdoch should not be trusted, but so deep is your reliance on it that i could show you it's executives eating and sexually abusing children (Don't take this literally) and you wouldn't waiver. Just like you don't concerning the bible.

The argument against your faith isn't winnable for me. I deal in fact, not faith.

I have said my evidence concerning McGrath lies with Dawkins, as you say your evidence for your belief system lies with what? Why must i detail every belief, back it up and shove it down your throat so you get the full knowledge, but you don't do the same?

You can keep your faith. I can feel relaxed knowing I'm a pretty damn good person without religions twisted and sickening moralities, with it's criminal organizations that commit rape and murder.

The talk is over too. You were correct.

Enjoy Heaven while I'm burning away in hell for... Well, for being a good person with exceptional morality.

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
reply to post by Akragon

 

My definition of God is fictional.

The book of Mormon is racist (having a new "revelation" to ease their way further into society only shows to me how fraudulent this religion is, and there are many things to be picked at in their book) and Joseph Smith was a loon.

Your belief's still appear enigmatic to me, but since I don't feel anything other than curiosity during our back and forth, i mean it in a good way.

Do you think God would allow me entrance into Heaven? (The God you believe in)

Well considering i've never read the book of mormon i couldn't possibly take one persons opinion on it... As i've said, these people are litterally the nicest people on the planet, they express love to everyone regardless of their opinions on religion. Though they're very opinionated, honestly who isn't when they talk about their beliefs I've never read their book, but whatever it is in that book that makes them act how they do towards others is amazing.

And yes, your beliefs don't matter, everyone lives their life, then returns home regardless of your sins... Heaven is just mans discription of home.

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot


Do you think God would allow me entrance into Heaven? (The God you believe in)

Don't know... Do you want entrance? As CS Lewis said, it's not so much that God excludes people as that they exclude themselves. God simply gives them what they want..

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
I would've happily taken the place of all those poor jewish children gassed to death if it meant saving them.

Luckily for you, you'll never be called upon to provide proof of that!

Originally posted by JesuitIscariotI have said my evidence concerning McGrath lies with Dawkins,

Sorry, I can't make any sense of that! Could you please re-phrase?

Originally posted by JesuitIscariotWell, for being a good person with exceptional morality.

edit on 24-4-2011 by JesuitIscariot because: (no reason given)

Again, could you please provide proof being a good person with exceptional morality? You may be right, but should I take your exceptional goodness on faith?
BTW - what I mention about Hitchens, was that he lies like a rug about his own background, and about Islam and especially about Christian theology - what it is and what it says. He's 'preaching to the choir' and knows very well (as does Dawkins) that he can make the most bizarre claims, and that his audience will be too scared to check, or that they won't even realise that they should...
(For example, Dawkins claims about Jesus view on in-groups and out-groups. Thoroughly refuted, but you'd never know).

reply to post by Vicky32


I planned to address all your post (Your comments on Hitchens are lies, research him, but since you deny the vatican's horrors anyway, anything that shows religion for what it is is a lie to you), but you actually asked if you should take me being a good person on faith.

Unless you give me a straight answer here, there is no point for us to take this debate further.

Do Abraham's Gods laws (all) contain exceptional morality?

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
reply to post by Vicky32

 

I planned to address all your post (Your comments on Hitchens are lies, research him, but since you deny the vatican's horrors anyway, anything that shows religion for what it is is a lie to you), but you actually asked if you should take me being a good person on faith.

Unless you give me a straight answer here, there is no point for us to take this debate further.

Do Abraham's Gods laws (all) contain exceptional morality?

I'm sorry, but you're being particularly incoherent this posting, so I can't really answer it, as I don't know what you have said...
Hitchens claims to be Jewish and to have always known about this, because of a grandmother or similar who was a Holocaust survivor. News to me, says his brother Peter!
Hitchens did however recently marry an American Jewish TV or news reporter, which kind of explains his hysteria about Islam, though I do admire that he was honest enough to admit that water-boarding is torture after volunteering to undergo it in order to prove it isn't...

reply to post by Vicky32


The post was about faith, but i wasn't willing to take it further until you answered my question, which you didn't.

Christopher didn't discover that his great-grandmother (It may of even been great-great-great, i can't remember) had converted to Judaism until his late 30's early 40's, as written in his memoirs. If you got this lie from Peter, who by the way writes for the most blatantly racist newspaper in Britain, then this should clear up whatever misconceptions you have about both.

Christopher > Peter.

The debate needn't continue since you dodged the question i alluded to at the start of this post,

Originally posted by JesuitIscariot
reply to post by Vicky32

 

The post was about faith, but i wasn't willing to take it further until you answered my question, which you didn't.

Christopher didn't discover that his great-grandmother (It may of even been great-great-great, i can't remember) had converted to Judaism until his late 30's early 40's, as written in his memoirs. If you got this lie from Peter, who by the way writes for the most blatantly racist newspaper in Britain, then this should clear up whatever misconceptions you have about both.

Christopher > Peter.

The debate needn't continue since you dodged the question i alluded to at the start of this post,

edit on 25-4-2011 by JesuitIscariot because: (no reason given)

I know nothing about Peter other than what I read in an article about Christopher and his pretensions...
Do you mind re-phrasing the question? As it is, if you stated it in your last post, it was unintelligible!

reply to post by Vicky32


On a scale of 1-10, what would you give Yahweh's morality?

I'm trying to understand the difference between your faith in me saying i was a good person and your faith in the bible's morality, or lack of difference.

Hey man, it looks like you know a thing or two about the bible.
Just a quick question (i wont ask you to go into depth), how was the bible created ?

reply to post by YouDeserveToKnow


You have many questions but I think they all boil down to the main umbrella query of "Why is the bible considered to be the word of God?"

It's a tough question to ask most mainstream Christians as they have this thing called "faith" which makes it tough to objectively stand back an analyze the church.

The questions that would answer the rest are -

1. Why are all of the books in the bible considered to be connected to one another?
   
2. Why are the books that are in the bible in the bible?
   
3. Why are there several other Christian books from the same era, many by the same people NOT in the bible?
   

When I was a mainstream(ish) Christian, I was uncomfortable questioning the bible, as well. What made me comfortable with it was the realization that the answer to all of those above questions is "the church". A group of men who decided on those things. Many people of faith say "well, God made sure that those books are accurate and that the right books got in there"... But where is that even said?! The bible itself doesn't even say that it is correct. The only scripture in the bible that said not to add or take away is in Revelations and that was in the context of there not even being a bible at all!

Bottom line:

1. There are no biblical reasons to not question the bible.
   
2. There are no biblical reasons to not question the interpretation of the bible.
   
3. There are DEFINITELY no biblical reasons to not question the church.
   
4. The man-made constructs to justify Christian polytheism like the "holy trinity" are completely abandonable within the laws of God.
   
5. Most Christians follow the word of man as if it were the word of God.
   
6. There is nothing to suggest that you are even reading the things God wants you to read.
   
7. God is love. If you read something in the bible that is not of love, it is not of God and shouldn't be in the bible.