Death & The Afterlife

People say they have experienced NDE's, and I am sure they experienced something mindblowing, and they say, "now I know for sure there is life after"
Well, I say "No you don't"

If you came back to consciencesness, you never died!
Dead is dead! There is no turning back.

Originally posted by CCKP72
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx

 

Excellent read. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this!

The concept of an afterlife makes dealing with loved one's deaths and the contemplation of your own comforting to a degree. I personally have had several experiences which has convinced me that an afterlife in fact does exist. S&F!

Sorry pal, but you NEVER DIED!

Originally posted by VariableConstant

Out of my body? Completely. I can clearly recall seeing the sun-dappled leaves of the trees around the river where I drowned, could see and hear the people that had been with me, their concern and anguish as they realized that I was not coming up. But it meant nothing to me, just something that I noticed. What occurred after that I won't even attempt to describe, I'll just say that I saw again what "reality" is, and it is not our lives on this plane. I say I saw it again, because it was like going home, a place I knew of and remembered, but had forgotten about in this life. Everything made sense, everything that had happened and was happening in this world made total sense, and was as it was meant to be. This is the part that is hardest to describe, because nothing seems to make sense in this world. We are not supposed to be able to make sense of it; that is the whole purpose. To grind on without knowing why, and to let our actions speak for themselves in the absence of an over-arching plot line.

'___'?

Hate to be a spoilsport here but nobody can say that an afterlife exists, a lot of it may be wishful thinking. I have never met a person who described the afterlife from first person experience, because they are DEAD,
D-E-A-D

I certainly hope there is life after bucket booting, that would be great, we are taught that is is a reality, but who taught the teacher?

DEAD people?!

Sorry, the afterlife may, or may not be reality and that is all we'll really ever know.

So what are ghosts?
I've seen them, I have heard them, I don't know what they are, they are my only evidence that I have of LAD, which gives me a glint of hope, but I don't know what the spirit world is, is it other dimensions bleeding through to ours, like jeans to a boo boo on your knee?
Or is it visiting dead, or is it a manifestation of the brain, your brain or someone else brain waves interfering with yours?

I don't know, you don't know, only DEAD people know, and dead men (and women) don't talk, unless spirits are real.

That's all I have to say with this post.

Originally posted by Toadmund

People say they have experienced NDE's, and I am sure they experienced something mindblowing, and they say, "now I know for sure there is life after"
Well, I say "No you don't"
If you came back to consciencesness, you never died!
Dead is dead! There is no turning back.

Well, the people who say they "know for sure" that there is an afterlife who have had personal experiences DO know for sure... but only for themselves. They might be completely confident that life exists after death because of their own experience, but obviously only they can truly be convinced by it. Since you yourself were not there to experience this person's experience alongside them... how can you say whether or not they "know" something. It's more a matter of faith... because after all, no one can know whether there is an afterlife or not.

But as for these people reporting near death experiences never having died... that is up for interpretation. The definition of "death" can vary widely depending on who you talk to. Is someone who is a complete vegetable, with no brain activity, and who is only being kept alive by machines... truly alive? Is someone whose heart has stopped and brain has no electrical activity considered dead?
With the improvements in the medical field we have many machines that can literally bring people back from the dead... so it is hard to actually define when someone is dead or not.

You're arguing that if they come back to life... then they were never dead to begin with. But there are many instances where doctors have declared people dead and then they've been revived. But of course, one could always argue that it was doctor error for declaring them dead in the first place.

Originally posted by Toadmund
Sorry, the afterlife may, or may not be reality and that is all we'll really ever know.
I don't know, you don't know, only DEAD people know, and dead men (and women) don't talk, unless spirits are real.

That's all I have to say with this post.

No kidding that no one can know about the afterlife... I think I mentioned that fact a good five separate times throughout this thread. But just because you cannot know something for sure, you'd be pretty closed minded not to even try to learn. (And by "you"... I mean the collective all.)

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx


I thought that perhaps the most accurate picture could be had from childrens' NDEs.

S&F great thread, I had an ADC (After Death Communications) from my dead father it was so real, as real as I am typing this post.
My Father had been dead for two and half years yet, no one told me. At the time I had not seen my father in thirty years, so I wouldn’t known much about him or how he died. Several months after my ADC I had received a phone call from my sister who had known all along he was dead and yet she kept it a secret from me.
I told my sister of my ADC and how our father looked when he came to me. After I told my sister what he was wearing she just gasps and dropped the phone, she was crying she pick up the phone and said dad really came to you didn’t he, I know he did because you couldn’t have known what he was wearing when we buried him. I told my sister that our father was wearing a light powder blue sort sleeve shirt with four pockets on the front and there was floral designs running straight down the front where the buttons are, and he was wearing khaki dress pants. My sister told me that is what he was buried in, and the powder blue shirt that I described was his favorite shirt. Like I said I had not seen my father in thirty years and my sister and I never talk about my parents, and the reason why was I was severely abused by both of my parents and I left them when I was fourteen years old, and never once looked to get in touch with them.

I am fifty four now and had finish fifteen years of therapy dealing with their abuse and getting my life back. I was able to forgive my parents and move on. I believe my father was made to see me and to let me know he had crossed over. My father told me that: in his words crossed over and that he was alright and he said that I would be ok that everything is fine, then he told me that he had to go, I had many questions to ask him but he turn around and walk back into the light until the light disappeared and I was left in total darkness.

This was not a dream; this had an unbelievable awareness to it. I felt more alive with this experience than I do living. It is hard to put language to my experience this was the best I could do.

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx

I would say then that there is 'dead' and completely dead whereas there is no revival possibility.
What is it that determines weather revival is possible?

Is it completely brain dead, no activity at all, if not what at the cellular level happens to prevent further electrical activity?
I would say that when no electrical impulses are possible in the body that is complete death.

But if of course brain activity stops altogether, thats when the question of weather or not NDE's can happen at that point.

NDE's are 'Near Death Experiences' not complete death experiences.


What happens at the point in time in the cells that permanently stops electrical activity in the brain?

Originally posted by Toadmund
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx

 

I would say then that there is 'dead' and completely dead whereas there is no revival possibility.
What is it that determines weather revival is possible?

I think after 10 minutes or so if you don;t get revived your brain sustains damage beyond repair.

Good read. I've always had a fascination with NDE's and truly believe consciousness exists beyond death of the corporeal body. I keep myself open minded by what is to come, but a part of me knows that it is a type of consciousness that surpasses anything we are accustomed to presently. It's like seeing life through black and white tv and knowing nothing but that reality, and when you die your black and white tv awareness gradually tunes into a Super HD 3D with boise sound lol. A bit of faith on my part, and no I have no proof only my intuition. Star and flag.

reply to post by pepsi78


There have been a few confirmed cases of people that have flatlined and have had no EEG readings for longer than 20 minutes and sustained no long term brain damage (as in recovered their normal ability through rehabilitation). They are certainly not common, and in most cases you are right, but there are exceptions.

On "Self" and Death...

Although, it's been almost 40 years, I can remember clearly what may have been
a NDE, or perhaps just an Out of Body Experience.

When I was about 10 I caught a flu that nearly killed me.
Something around 104 degrees (or more) Farenheit.
The school nurse called my mother, and took me immediatly home.
When I got home, before my mother did, I went strait to bed,
and fell strait to sleep.
While asleep, it began like a dream, and I could see the roof of my
room as through a red watery haze.
I had the distinct feeling of my feet being drawn toward the ceiling,
until the only thing touching the bed was the top of my head, and I felt
as though I were hanging upside down.(at this time I could not see anything.)

Then, there was something like a soundless "pop" and I could see my room,
very clearly, my bed, and me in it, as I slowly floated down to the ground.
I could no longer feel my arms and legs, but could see clearly, as when awake.
I felt like a sphere..or bubble..sort of, and floated down to bounce on the floor
by my bed.
Something dark under my bed scared me to death, and I woke up in my bed.

Iv'e been told it was dillusions under fever...I disagee.
And I'll only say that I have seen enough of the supernatural since then,
that even if my childhood experience were from fever, my adult experiences
have confirmed, (at least for me), that there is definately an exsistance
beyond the physical.

As for the "Self"...

Many think that giving up of the "self" is the only way to ascension...
I would argue to say this is not so...

Self is the seperation from the One.
Without this seperation, who would God have to love and be loved by?

Self is not to be abandoned, any more than one should abandon God.
In fact, to abandon self would effectivly rob God of his loved one(s)?
And yet, too selfish, and you might find yourself alone...
and eternity is a long time to be alone...

We are taught Balance and moderation for good reasons.
The works of creation are not one sided...
Selflessness and selfishness are but one such balancing act we must strive
to perfect, and are indelible to the acts of creating.
For as offspring of a creator being, patterns would suggest that we are
destined to create things...
I mean...are we made with no other purpose than to sing the hymns already written?
(also:not knowing the whole picture helps some to learn the balancing better.)


Self starts knowing nothing and must learn everything.
Made by our Parents...
Children must Learn...
That they may Grow...
to become Adults...
This is an undeniable pattern...written in no book.
___

An aside on Time...

Consciousness requires time in which to "think".
Self is a form of consciousness.
Is not God also conscious?

Endless creation can only occure within time.
How can you put blocks A,B,X and Z together if you do not have time to do it?
Or make man from clay, for that matter?
Or test tubes...who knows?
___

Self is the source of Desire...
Desire is the source of "New Creation".
Concepts as simple as "Iv'e got this new idea, and I really want to try it."
Without the desire, or self will to do it, this new creation would not be done.

I think there are three stages of self/consciousness...

1. The Natural consciousness:Every form of being that perceives/reacts to the physical.
2. The Supernatural consciousness: Every form of being that exists above the physical,
yet interacts to varying degrees with it, but has not attained full understanding of
the interaction between the physical and the supernatural.
3. The Supernal consciousness: Every form of being that remembers and understands the
interactions between all physical and non-physical, and is engaged in the creation of
new worlds and new spiritual offspring, in an eternal cycle of eternal consciousness.
The Supernal Consciousness is also where resides the collective or subconsciousness.
and is essential in relieving or segmenting our experiences into bite size pieces,
catalogued in time.
In the physical world it is shown in sleep, and occlusion.
A shudder for your window. A shade for your eye.
Shelter from the deadly truths of the natural world outside...

A more simplistic list of this might be:
1. knowing nothing (or nearly.)
2. vehicle(s) for learning and memory retention of "self/experience foci".
3. knowing everything (or nearly.)

Speculative, yes. But the patterns that occur in our natural world are often repeated
in areas beyond our perception. If I were a creator being who wanted to convey something
that could not be disputed, and yet was not blatently stated. What better way than in the
very patterns of my "Natural" creations?


and...to end this before it gets too long...I would say, finally.
I think "self" is eternal, until self decides not to be...

reply to post by Toadmund


Not true. Dannion Brinkley was clinically dead. www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

But of course that is why they call it Near-death experience because the person is revived. But Dannion was left on the stretcher...

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx
Mary, Your logic is a little flawed about "Death" and "Near-death" in the sense of the word as it is known today. For example, we can use deductive reasoning to sort out this little dilemma for example:

1. All humans carry decision making processes

2. Since patient A cannot make decisions that affect the physical.

3. It must be concluded that patient A is dead.

The term "near-death" is a fuzzy word in-itself. It alludes to prove a negative which again, according to logic cannot be done. So to help better understand using simple reasoning, your either dead or not dead.

Originally posted by BullDogGrowler82
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx

 

Mary, Your logic is a little flawed about "Death" and "Near-death" in the sense of the word as it is known today. For example, we can use deductive reasoning to sort out this little dilemma for example:

1. All humans carry decision making processes

2. Since patient A cannot make decisions that affect the physical.

3. It must be concluded that patient A is dead.

The term "near-death" is a fuzzy word in-itself. It alludes to prove a negative which again, according to logic cannot be done. So to help better understand using simple reasoning, your either dead or not dead.

Wow buddy. Wow. Are you suggesting that I think death results when someone can't make decisions for themselves anymore? In that case... the majority of the world is walking around "dead" right now. Hah!

Good try bringing logic into it... but when your logical example has nothing to do with what I was discussing... it kind of loses it's effectiveness, huh?

And to be honest... I don't really know how to reply adequately to your comment. It's so far off the mark that I can't even begin to explain where you missed the point.

Thanks for all the info and thoughts about the subject.

My personal interest goes out to reincarnation. I have been given the possibillity much thought but bumb into many problems it would give to a person....if true.

Life is a lesson is what many people and religions say...Okay,then what? How does this work?

Short version is being born again and use the previous lessons learned for the up and coming life? Or are those lessons of any use to a person when being conciouss in the afterlife?
Why the procedure of reincarnation anyway?
Must everybody reincarnate to finally reach that goal of eternal bliss...?
Why not be happy with the way you are and able to accept everybody else as the way they are?

You can only learn from a lesson if you can remember that lesson.
Suppose I die, would I not remember all the previous lessons `lifes` and because of that have an other personality in the afterlife?

I can go on and on with such questions. And when I try to reduce it all into one single question I come to.....What is the purpose of being aware of your excistance?

Lady died, went through rigor.. and lived. Be sure and throw this into your " we know when the point of death is" rhetoric

She was brain dead for 17 hours, no hearbeat and no pulse. She started to go through rigor mortis and revived. Her name is Val Thomas and she lives in West Virginia. Hers is NOT the only story of prolonged brain death and rigor revivals.

www.foxnews.com...
welcometowestvirginia.blogspot.com...

YouTubes of her :
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Advantage
Lady died, went through rigor.. and lived. Be sure and throw this into your " we know when the point of death is" rhetoric

She was brain dead for 17 hours, no hearbeat and no pulse. She started to go through rigor mortis and revived. Her name is Val Thomas and she lives in West Virginia. Hers is NOT the only story of prolonged brain death and rigor revivals.

Now that is awesome. I'd love to hear if she had any memories of her time while she was thought to be "dead".


I just love how I started this thread to discuss things I've read about death, and people automatically turned it into a debate on when death sets in.
But yeah, thanks Advantage for posting an example of how we really don't know when death sets in. Maybe this example will help people get back on track. xP

Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx

Originally posted by Advantage
Lady died, went through rigor.. and lived. Be sure and throw this into your " we know when the point of death is" rhetoric

She was brain dead for 17 hours, no hearbeat and no pulse. She started to go through rigor mortis and revived. Her name is Val Thomas and she lives in West Virginia. Hers is NOT the only story of prolonged brain death and rigor revivals.

Now that is awesome. I'd love to hear if she had any memories of her time while she was thought to be "dead".


I just love how I started this thread to discuss things I've read about death, and people automatically turned it into a debate on when death sets in.
But yeah, thanks Advantage for posting an example of how we really don't know when death sets in. Maybe this example will help people get back on track. xP

Mary, You still didn't respond to my argument. All you did was mock and say "Well, I don't know how to respond"... I thought your majoring in Philosophy? Death is death, end of story. You can argue the fact that said person was revived, but even then at that moment for however long the person was not alive, their classified as diceased your just inserting a mystical equation to try an allude away that death happens but doesn't have to be stagnant once it happpens (Person dies, then is revived is still classified as dead before revival). Also, what the hell is a Near-death "Experience"? How does that experience differ from all other experiences? What makes this experience much more conclusive to a possible after-life than an experience involving being the smartest man alive and achieving recognition for it?

Originally posted by BullDogGrowler82
Mary, You still didn't respond to my argument. All you did was mock and say "Well, I don't know how to respond"... I thought your majoring in Philosophy? Death is death, end of story. You can argue the fact that said person was revived, but even then at that moment for however long the person was dead. Also, what the hell is a Near-death "Experience"? How does that experience differ from all other experiences? What makes this experience much more conclusive to a possible after-life than an experience involving being the smartest man alive and achieving recognition for it?

But I did respond to your argument. Just because I didn't respond the way you were hoping I would, doesn't mean I was mocking you.
I think you completely missed the point. That was my response... but obviously you're not paying attention to anything I'm typing... if you were, you'd realize that not only was your first response extremely far off topic... but you've compounded it double by replying again.

And nice try "mocking" me by questioning my degree. That is totally uncalled for. Not to mention the patronizing way you start your replies to me, but I'll let that slide.

Haven't you noticed... that we're both arguing something that neither of us can know? The difference between us is that I acknowledge the fact that I can't know. If you actually READ my thread, you'd understand how your replies are completely off the mark.

I'm not professing to believe in near death experiences, after all I haven't had one, nor do I know of anyone who has... I'm just posting the information that I've read about it. And yet again, had you actually read my thread, you'd be aware of that.

Also: how do you know what happens after death? You don't. You don't know any more than I do. And what on earth are you talking about with the differences between a regular experience and a near death experience? Obviously a "near death experience" is something that is experienced by someone who is thought to be dead. Simple. You're just arguing that they probably weren't dead, so it's not a near death experience... which is definitely valid. But that is not the topic of conversation... I'm not here to debate the scientific validity of the experiences of these people, I'm just recording what I've read.

Also, what the hell is a Near-death "Experience"? How does that experience differ from all other experiences? What makes this experience much more conclusive to a possible after-life than an experience involving being the smartest man alive and achieving recognition for it?

See above to answer the first two questions... As for your last question... what on earth are you even talking about?


Just for my sake... please re-read my thread. Because it is obvious that either, A. You skimmed the thread and have no idea what I'm talking about. or B. You read the thread, but ignored everything that I said.

I had one OBE in my life, 35 years ago when I was 16, and I do not understand the reason for it to this day. (I believe that when your spirit is -out-, you are more near death, so I hope am not off topic, I don't mean to be.) On a typical late night while I lay in bed, was feeling anxiety like something was wrong. I dozed off finally, but dreamt I saw these two figures all in black, standing in a white temple with pillars round about, with their arms and hands raised toward a direction. I heard what sounded like, if everyone in the world did a gregorian chant at the same time. This turned into an electric buzzing noise, and then I was no longer asleep, but was paralyzed. While fully awake, I experienced that I was floating up toward the ceiling. Was keenly dually aware (I cannot explain the 'mechanics' of that to you.) that my body was behind 'me' on the bed, and I was out from it. This whole thing felt FORCED. I was fighting with all my mental might, and began praying to and visualizing Jesus, then it immediately let me go. This never occurred again, thank God. But about 3-to-4 years later, I would have several high strangeness Ufo experiences.

reply to post by Toadmund


You seem to be suggesting that someone experiencing a NDE is still more alive than dead.

If you understand the science behind a NDE you will realize how flawed this logic is.

People have died...and come back to life...it has happened many times.

Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx

Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Death has ever been the Great Unknown, and the closer we get to it, the less we should presume.

SO, I guess think it's prudent to reserve judgement, and await further information.

This is my biggest problem with educating myself on death. After all... it really is the Great Unknown... so any information that I gather regarding the topic cannot be verified or proven, so it all comes down to a matter of faith.

But I've been obsessed with death for my whole life. I mean, I have two cemetery scenes tattooed on me... because, why not? Haha. And I think I'm obsessed with death specifically because of the unknown. I also think that... since I am going to die eventually... I should at least prepare myself for the inevitable.
It's like taking a test. If you know that you have an exam eventually... you might as well study for it so you're better prepared for what is thrown at you. Except in this sense... death is a test that you can't concretely study for... there is no death study guide.

Thought I should give the thread a little bump!

I wonder how many others are just as "obsessed" with death, but never manage to admit it to themselves?

We ALL are heading into this Great Unknown, like it or not, and our behavior regarding Death, obsessive or not, is probably an indication of deeper things going on inside us. The funny thing is that the culture tends to send very contradictory messages when it comes to this subject.

Isn't it actually "healthy" to recognize and account for the inevitable? But when it comes to this particular subject, people are often so desperate to "forget" about it, that they would prefer to dive into a million distractions, plenty of which are hardly healthy. Meantime, the rare person who might remind others of this certainty, or who might be considered "obsessed", will be labeled as "morbid", or even unbalanced, etc. Interesting.

A couple cemetery tattoos? Well, I have a confession to make, I actually live across from an old cemetery! Oh sure, many have said, "I could never live so near a graveyard!", but personally, I think it beats the heck out of some multi-story monstrosity. And besides, they're some of the nicest neighbors you could ever want, quiet, respectful...In truth, I live on 10 acres, and it's a rather small cemetery, so it's a relatively minor part of the vast landscape, but I sort of like it. No, I don't particularly feel "obsessed", but am I the only one who likes trying to decipher ancient monuments, making out old dates? Isn't it sort of interesting to think about what the world was like, say way back in 1814, when this one was born, or when that one lost their baby? I don't think I'm at all "morbid".

SO, from what I see, it's people who continually try to put the thought of death out of their minds that actually may have "issues". And where might such an attitude lead? Ironically, perhaps to an earlier death than they might have imagined! I guess I'm talking about alcohol and drugs, or the various ways of "living dangerously", but being that these things are classic ways of being distracted, I think the irony says something, and is certainly germaine to the topic.

I’d love to hear what other people think about the afterlife – heaven, hell, purgatory, rotting in the ground… whichever.

This was a nice line in the OP, and it seems to have been ignored mostly. Everyone focused on NDEs, "when" exactly someone is dead, "if" that qualified as "death", etc. Sort of missing all the greater points really. I wonder if some of that could be considered "distraction"? And if not distraction from "death" or the unknown, per se, then could it be perhaps that which is beyond, that is the thing causing more of the discomfort?

If this is so, then any unconscious angst could surely not result from rosy visions of "heaven", now popularly accepted by many, as being the destiny of all. Perhaps there is a small part of us that still doth protest? Why so?

Is the unpopular notion of "hell" still too fresh for the Western mind, having inherited the tradition from Christianity? Is our collective consciousness (or conscience?) still burdened with such an unpleasant potentiality? In spite of the popular rejection of "hell", does it still possess more power over most of us than we are comfortable admitting to?

This could lead to many questions, and probably not many answers.

JR

Thanks for the bump! I’m surprised my topic wasn’t as well received… especially considering how many threads regarding the afterlife have been popping up lately (not to mention the awful quality of these threads… like the “there is no life after death” thread. I mean come on, he didn’t even capitalize his title! Nevermind the fact that the OP in that thread has the same amount of intellectual substance as a wet paper towel. But I digress...

I wonder how many others are just as "obsessed" with death, but never manage to admit it to themselves?
Isn't it actually "healthy" to recognize and account for the inevitable? But when it comes to this particular subject, people are often so desperate to "forget" about it, that they would prefer to dive into a million distractions, plenty of which are hardly healthy. Meantime, the rare person who might remind others of this certainty, or who might be considered "obsessed", will be labeled as "morbid", or even unbalanced, etc. Interesting.

I believe it is healthy to contemplate our inevitable demise…. Especially since this inevitability might not even involve a demise, after all… we could end up continuing to exist after death – but no one can claim that as fact.
This “forgetting” of death is a defense mechanism, and in the main OP it is defined as “Death as a Stranger”. We don’t want to think about death… which is probably one reason why we have places that we keep the dying – like hospitals and assisted living facilities. We hide all of our fellow dying humans away. Obviously this is slowly starting to change (considering hospice programs and whatnot)… but the idea of death incites fear in most; so whenever death arises in someone’s life (whether it’s their own death or someone close to them) we try to pass off the responsibility of caring for them. After all, watching someone else’s obvious mortality making itself known through the cold hands of death will bring to mind our own mortality.

A couple cemetery tattoos? Well, I have a confession to make, I actually live across from an old cemetery! Oh sure, many have said, "I could never live so near a graveyard!", but personally, I think it beats the heck out of some multi-story monstrosity. And besides, they're some of the nicest neighbors you could ever want, quiet, respectful...In truth, I live on 10 acres, and it's a rather small cemetery, so it's a relatively minor part of the vast landscape, but I sort of like it. No, I don't particularly feel "obsessed", but am I the only one who likes trying to decipher ancient monuments, making out old dates? Isn't it sort of interesting to think about what the world was like, say way back in 1814, when this one was born, or when that one lost their baby? I don't think I'm at all "morbid".

Haha, yeah I love tattoos… and cemeteries (moreso for their serine beauty). There is a cemetery basically in my backyard that I always played in as a child. Even had my first kiss under a cherry blossom tree in said cemetery. But despite the fact that cemeteries hold the remains of the dead… I see them more as a collection of monuments towards life.
And just to be ridiculous, I can’t resist but to post pictures of my tattoos. I’d have more if only they weren’t so expensive!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8b07492245fa.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/678e703cbd77.jpg[/atsimg]


I mean, besides all the people and accomplishments that we leave behind upon death – it’s our tombstone that we’re left with. The one marker that will stay (usually) even after all those people and accomplishments have faded into the past. I always try to remember that when I’m looking at the older graves (the oldest being from the late 1600’s)… they are memorializing a life. Haha I remember in Elementary school we had a field trip to the cemetery where we used big pieces of paper and crayon to make impressions of the graves, then we’d hang them all around school. I dunno if that’s a morbid thing for children to do… but it was normal at the time.

This was a nice line in the OP, and it seems to have been ignored mostly. Everyone focused on NDEs, "when" exactly someone is dead, "if" that qualified as "death", etc. Sort of missing all the greater points really. I wonder if some of that could be considered "distraction"? And if not distraction from "death" or the unknown, per se, then could it be perhaps that which is beyond, that is the thing causing more of the discomfort?

I also noticed that practically everything I said about death (besides the NDE’s) was ignored. And while I was learning all this information in class (being taught by the same guy who actually wrote most of the books I was referencing) it changed my whole view of the world. So I was a little surprised that no one else was affected in the least bit by the information. Maybe I just didn’t present it as entertainingly as my professor.
I don’t know if that could be an example of people purposely distracting themselves from death: or just laziness on the part of the readers. xP

Is the unpopular notion of "hell" still too fresh for the Western mind, having inherited the tradition from Christianity? Is our collective consciousness (or conscience?) still burdened with such an unpleasant potentiality? In spite of the popular rejection of "hell", does it still possess more power over most of us than we are comfortable admitting to?

Whenever the concept of hell is brought up, people automatically attack and say, “You’re stupid enough to believe in a concept that was made up by an institution with the intent of controlling the masses into behaving?” Sure… that might be what the purpose of the ‘existence’ of hell is, but what if it’s more of an abstract concept? It’s obviously not a pit of fire and brimstone as we’re taught… but perhaps it’s more of a state of consciousness. Hell is a much more difficult concept to think about (than heaven, that is)… mostly because great thinkers don’t often like to spend their time contemplating it.