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Originally posted by CCKP72
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx
Excellent read. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this!
The concept of an afterlife makes dealing with loved one's deaths and the contemplation of your own comforting to a degree. I personally have had several experiences which has convinced me that an afterlife in fact does exist. S&F!
Originally posted by VariableConstant
Out of my body? Completely. I can clearly recall seeing the sun-dappled leaves of the trees around the river where I drowned, could see and hear the people that had been with me, their concern and anguish as they realized that I was not coming up. But it meant nothing to me, just something that I noticed. What occurred after that I won't even attempt to describe, I'll just say that I saw again what "reality" is, and it is not our lives on this plane. I say I saw it again, because it was like going home, a place I knew of and remembered, but had forgotten about in this life. Everything made sense, everything that had happened and was happening in this world made total sense, and was as it was meant to be. This is the part that is hardest to describe, because nothing seems to make sense in this world. We are not supposed to be able to make sense of it; that is the whole purpose. To grind on without knowing why, and to let our actions speak for themselves in the absence of an over-arching plot line.
Originally posted by Toadmund
People say they have experienced NDE's, and I am sure they experienced something mindblowing, and they say, "now I know for sure there is life after"
Well, I say "No you don't"
If you came back to consciencesness, you never died!
Dead is dead! There is no turning back.
Originally posted by Toadmund
Sorry, the afterlife may, or may not be reality and that is all we'll really ever know.
I don't know, you don't know, only DEAD people know, and dead men (and women) don't talk, unless spirits are real.
That's all I have to say with this post.
Originally posted by Toadmund
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx
I would say then that there is 'dead' and completely dead whereas there is no revival possibility.
What is it that determines weather revival is possible?
Originally posted by BullDogGrowler82
reply to post by xFloggingMaryx
Mary, Your logic is a little flawed about "Death" and "Near-death" in the sense of the word as it is known today. For example, we can use deductive reasoning to sort out this little dilemma for example:
1. All humans carry decision making processes
2. Since patient A cannot make decisions that affect the physical.
3. It must be concluded that patient A is dead.
The term "near-death" is a fuzzy word in-itself. It alludes to prove a negative which again, according to logic cannot be done. So to help better understand using simple reasoning, your either dead or not dead.
Originally posted by Advantage
Lady died, went through rigor.. and lived. Be sure and throw this into your " we know when the point of death is" rhetoric
She was brain dead for 17 hours, no hearbeat and no pulse. She started to go through rigor mortis and revived. Her name is Val Thomas and she lives in West Virginia. Hers is NOT the only story of prolonged brain death and rigor revivals.
Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx
Originally posted by Advantage
Lady died, went through rigor.. and lived. Be sure and throw this into your " we know when the point of death is" rhetoric
She was brain dead for 17 hours, no hearbeat and no pulse. She started to go through rigor mortis and revived. Her name is Val Thomas and she lives in West Virginia. Hers is NOT the only story of prolonged brain death and rigor revivals.
Now that is awesome. I'd love to hear if she had any memories of her time while she was thought to be "dead".
I just love how I started this thread to discuss things I've read about death, and people automatically turned it into a debate on when death sets in.
But yeah, thanks Advantage for posting an example of how we really don't know when death sets in. Maybe this example will help people get back on track. xP
Originally posted by BullDogGrowler82
Mary, You still didn't respond to my argument. All you did was mock and say "Well, I don't know how to respond"... I thought your majoring in Philosophy? Death is death, end of story. You can argue the fact that said person was revived, but even then at that moment for however long the person was dead. Also, what the hell is a Near-death "Experience"? How does that experience differ from all other experiences? What makes this experience much more conclusive to a possible after-life than an experience involving being the smartest man alive and achieving recognition for it?
Also, what the hell is a Near-death "Experience"? How does that experience differ from all other experiences? What makes this experience much more conclusive to a possible after-life than an experience involving being the smartest man alive and achieving recognition for it?
Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx
Originally posted by JR MacBeth
Death has ever been the Great Unknown, and the closer we get to it, the less we should presume.
SO, I guess think it's prudent to reserve judgement, and await further information.
This is my biggest problem with educating myself on death. After all... it really is the Great Unknown... so any information that I gather regarding the topic cannot be verified or proven, so it all comes down to a matter of faith.
But I've been obsessed with death for my whole life. I mean, I have two cemetery scenes tattooed on me... because, why not? Haha. And I think I'm obsessed with death specifically because of the unknown. I also think that... since I am going to die eventually... I should at least prepare myself for the inevitable.
It's like taking a test. If you know that you have an exam eventually... you might as well study for it so you're better prepared for what is thrown at you. Except in this sense... death is a test that you can't concretely study for... there is no death study guide.
I’d love to hear what other people think about the afterlife – heaven, hell, purgatory, rotting in the ground… whichever.
I wonder how many others are just as "obsessed" with death, but never manage to admit it to themselves?
Isn't it actually "healthy" to recognize and account for the inevitable? But when it comes to this particular subject, people are often so desperate to "forget" about it, that they would prefer to dive into a million distractions, plenty of which are hardly healthy. Meantime, the rare person who might remind others of this certainty, or who might be considered "obsessed", will be labeled as "morbid", or even unbalanced, etc. Interesting.
A couple cemetery tattoos? Well, I have a confession to make, I actually live across from an old cemetery! Oh sure, many have said, "I could never live so near a graveyard!", but personally, I think it beats the heck out of some multi-story monstrosity. And besides, they're some of the nicest neighbors you could ever want, quiet, respectful...In truth, I live on 10 acres, and it's a rather small cemetery, so it's a relatively minor part of the vast landscape, but I sort of like it. No, I don't particularly feel "obsessed", but am I the only one who likes trying to decipher ancient monuments, making out old dates? Isn't it sort of interesting to think about what the world was like, say way back in 1814, when this one was born, or when that one lost their baby? I don't think I'm at all "morbid".
This was a nice line in the OP, and it seems to have been ignored mostly. Everyone focused on NDEs, "when" exactly someone is dead, "if" that qualified as "death", etc. Sort of missing all the greater points really. I wonder if some of that could be considered "distraction"? And if not distraction from "death" or the unknown, per se, then could it be perhaps that which is beyond, that is the thing causing more of the discomfort?
Is the unpopular notion of "hell" still too fresh for the Western mind, having inherited the tradition from Christianity? Is our collective consciousness (or conscience?) still burdened with such an unpleasant potentiality? In spite of the popular rejection of "hell", does it still possess more power over most of us than we are comfortable admitting to?