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Share power or lose control, Iraq warned

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posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 11:29 AM
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To put it simply with regard to Iraq and a decent eventual outcome: It's the tribes, stupid!

The sooner we get this through our western heads, the sooner we can see positive results in Iraq. Iraq has been controlled (mainly) by tribal sheiks for over 1000 years. US military might can never and WILL never change this ancient way of doing business - anymore than China could change the way America has done business for the last 200 plus years - if they invaded our mainland. If they tried, we'd probly all fight like hell to our deaths or to our Republic's restoration. Can I get an amen?

I ran across this excellent article concerning a man proclaimed to be one of the most influencial/powerful men in Iraq. It's helpful in describing the country's true power structure. Anyone who wants to understand this whole issue should give it a look.

Sheik Mudher Al-Kharbit could end the insurgency, but won't.
Paul McGeough Amman.

July 22, 2004 "SMH" -- Amman. - Worlds collide on the terrace of the Intercontinental Hotel on a balmy summer's night in Amman.

There's a singer crooning New York, New York, but crashing through Sinatra's signature song is the thump of tribal drums from a wedding party deep inside the hotel.

Guiding the waiters as they spread an Arab feast before us, Mudher Al-Kharbit looks just like the multi-millionaire businessman he is - from the swatch of silk in the breast pocket of his well-cut suit, to shoes of fine crocodile skin.

But, listen carefully, tonight there is no talk of business. Al-Kharbit is speaking as the paramount sheik of the 2 million-strong Dulame tribe, which dominates western Iraq.

It's as though the ghost of Lawrence of Arabia hangs over us as he proclaims the traditional power of the Iraqi tribes, sketching the bones of what, disquietingly, sounded like a mutual co-existence pact with Saddam Hussein but chafing at the memory of how the former dictator used the Baath party as a counter to the power of the tribes.
www.informationclearinghouse.info...




posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:01 PM
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What! No comments?! I'm always getting blasted for opposing the invasion and occupation.
Why isn't there any comment when I try and offer insight into solutions to this mess?

With the occupation going full-steam, we shouldn't be arguing over whether it was right or wrong, b/c it's happening, like it or not. We should be discussing solutions. And you can't discuss solutions until you have a grasp of the Iraqi people and culture. The article I offered is an excellent glimpse into it and a very excellent place to start in understanding possible solutions.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:14 PM
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The article offers some good insights.

Colonialism and imperialism coupled with religious zeal has destroyed many cultures and forms of self-governance for hundreds of years. Think of Africa, South America, Middle East and some Asian regions.

Until we learn to respect other peoples and their beliefs as well as their right not to participate in "globalisation" (you know the kind I mean) the world will get nowhere.

It is the heights of hubris to believe that the world needs saving from itself when we do not even practice what we preach at home. Too many people think that the "western" way of life is the only way of life and attempt to proselytize it. They could not be more wrong in my opinion.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:17 PM
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You're right, especially when discussing a culture that is as old as time itself. Nothing in the world can change centuries-old ways of life. We must re-calibrate OUR way of seeing it and find ways to adapt and intigrate new ideas into their way of life. The sheik in the article addresses that quite adroitly. We'd be wise to listen.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 01:31 PM
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I'm with you ECK.. the tribal structure is a more powerful thing than many of us realize. It's just been a good few days for ideas and threads on ATS and I'm starting to overload!


More food for thought.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
You're right, especially when discussing a culture that is as old as time itself. Nothing in the world can change centuries-old ways of life.


That's not true at all, it just won't be done very quickly or without forceful outside intervention. If the US would be willing to invest, say 3 or 4, maybe even 5 generations into accomplishing such a goal, while crushing all opposition, then get ready to see the results. Well I guess I mean tell your great great grandchildren to get ready to see the results.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by Eastern_Diamondback

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
You're right, especially when discussing a culture that is as old as time itself. Nothing in the world can change centuries-old ways of life.


That's not true at all, it just won't be done very quickly or without forceful outside intervention. If the US would be willing to invest, say 3 or 4, maybe even 5 generations into accomplishing such a goal, while crushing all opposition, then get ready to see the results. Well I guess I mean tell your great great grandchildren to get ready to see the results.



You think it will take that long till Iraq is under control, your crazy, america doesn't and won't stay near that long in Iraq, I'd guess that we'll be outa there by around 2006- 07.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 06:08 PM
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The sooner we get this through our western heads, the sooner we can see positive results in Iraq. Iraq has been controlled (mainly) by tribal sheiks for over 1000 years.


You can not change a country that has roots as deep as the countries in the Middle East to be democratic, they have never been democratic and they will never be, it does not matter how many generations of American troops may live or die in that country is never going too happened.

Unless you wipe out the entire middle east and repopulate again. Right?

Bush never had really in mind to have democracy in that country, all he wanted was somebody over there to guarantee the Iraqi oil into Cheney's buddies fat hands.



posted on Jul, 22 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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attrition will be the US downfall. invading another country when they dont want you there is a big gamble. there is nothing we can do to conivce them that we are there for a noble cause. raping their homeland is wat we are doing, if i were them i would be downright pissed. anti-american sentiment will grow and grow, the US propaganda machine is not as effective in a world such as iraq. we will simply continue to slaughter them as they stand up against us.




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