Public enemy number one: Organised Religion.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Atheism is not a religion. However, it does have some legal protections that other religions would receive. This fact does not make it a religion though.

You need to get over yourself. Atheism is a belief and the people that call themselves atheists identify themselves as belonging to a group - they are dogmatic in their opinions to the point of violence (just like everyone else). It is a religion as much as anything else.

They are even an organized religion as they solicit funds to promote their belief over the beliefs of other religions.

You are playing a game of semantics in trying to say that your belief in nothing isn't a belief and therefore a group of non-believers are not actually believers in the lack of design or deity.

Then the whole thread ignores how believers are not the same as organized religion the same as a worker does not necessarily hold the beliefs of his/her workplace or union and a voter does not necessarily hold the beliefs of his/her elected official.

Organized religions may have murdered millions - but so has the absence of religion and atheism itself. If you deny that then you've obviously never read or at least understood a history book on the 20th century.

This whole argument is frustrating because one side is trying to convince us that their feces smells better than the other. Its ludicrous.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
I agree with the OP.

I do belive that Jesus lived and taught, I also believe he was a radical who disliked everything 'organised' religion had to offer.

Jesus was most certainly not a radical opposed to organized religion. The most radical thing about him was a somewhat unusual empathy in his teachings.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
I do belive that Jesus lived and taught, I also believe he was a radical who disliked everything 'organised' religion had to offer.

Exactly, Jesus railed against organized religion. He told people to let tomorrow worry about itself, to forsake the concerns of the world, and to go forth and tell of the events that transpired but to not take anything with them because God would provide.

The Romans get involved after failing to defeat the invisible church (individuals) and they co-opt it by starting Roman Catholicism. They turn it in to a pagan war machine devout of any redeemable qualities and for 1600 years we have to listen to idiots railing that atheism is supreme because of "organized religion" which they tend to mean "Roman Catholicism".

"I can play that game too - Darwin murdered millions using the hands of Hitler and Stalin. Darwin was evil. We need to throw off the shackles of Darwinism and Evolution!"

whine, whine, whine

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Jesus was most certainly not a radical opposed to organized religion. The most radical thing about him was a somewhat unusual empathy in his teachings.

Jesus supported the Roman Catholic church? Can you give us an instance of that from the Bible or do you just expect us to accept an atheists Biblical teachings? As you go about trying to Google a verse, be warned that I'll hold you to the entire context of his teachings.

Originally posted by ararisq

You need to get over yourself. Atheism is a belief and the people that call themselves atheists identify themselves as belonging to a group - they are dogmatic in their opinions to the point of violence (just like everyone else). It is a religion as much as anything else.

Those things do not qualify atheism as a religion. Musicians call themselves musicians and organize into groups. Music is not a religion. Some musicians are dogmatic and enthusiastic about, say... jazz. Jazz is not a religion.

They are even an organized religion as they solicit funds to promote their belief over the beliefs of other religions.

Atheism has no beliefs. It's defined by a lack of beliefs. And just because FFRO puts up a few billboards, it doesn't mean they're a religion.

Is not collecting stamps a hobby? No.
Is bald a hair color? No.
Is not believing in deities a religion? No.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


first of all , it takes more faith to disbelieve in God than it does to believe in God and the only thing that is impossible for God to do is lie

reply to post by ararisq


There are too many double standards when it comes to atheisim, any bad thing that has ever happened by the hands of those with religion is blamed on religion while things that have happened at the hands of atheists is just coincidence.

Originally posted by ararisq

Jesus supported the Roman Catholic church? Can you give us an instance of that from the Bible or do you just expect us to accept an atheists Biblical teachings? As you go about trying to Google a verse, be warned that I'll hold you to the entire context of his teachings.

You are aware that the catholic church didn't exist in Jesus' time?

Jesus said he was here to fulfill the law, and that not a jot or tittle of the law would be changed while he was here. The jewish religious law. Such words do not come from a radical opposed to organized religion.

Originally posted by infojunkie2
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

first of all , it takes more faith to disbelieve in God than it does to believe in God and the only thing that is impossible for God to do is lie

How so?
Does it take more faith for you not to believe in Thor than it does for you to believe in Jehova?

Originally posted by Darkk
reply to post by ararisq

 

There are too many double standards when it comes to atheisim, any bad thing that has ever happened by the hands of those with religion is blamed on religion while things that have happened at the hands of atheists is just coincidence.

No. Those that kill in the name of religion make it clear they're killing in the name of religion. Genocidal atheists, however, did not kill in the name of atheism, rather statism. Their atheism was incidental, much like Hitler and Pol Pot's vegetarianism.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
I agree with the OP.

I do belive that Jesus lived and taught, I also believe he was a radical who disliked everything 'organised' religion had to offer.

Jesus was most certainly not a radical opposed to organized religion. The most radical thing about him was a somewhat unusual empathy in his teachings.

Jesus was Jewish, did he follow what his 'religion' taught him? Just look at the way he treated women, nothing like the dictate of the culture of the time, if that is not a radical what is?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


But it was atheist-Statism and they made it very clear that they were atheists and religion was not welcome under their regime.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


this is true, because normally one who holds to atheism believes that his ancesters where monkeys or a tadpole or something , , I always thought that religion was based on a belief regarding where humans came from, so just believing that you came from monkeys constitutes a religion although not a very organized one.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I thought Thor was a cartoon or comic book hero, I didnt know you believed in thor, i though you was one of them, i came from monkeys people, sorry

Originally posted by infojunkie2
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

this is true, because normally one who holds to atheism believes that his ancesters where monkeys or a tadpole or something ,

Atheism is a disbelief in deities. There is no requirement that atheists accept evolution.

I always thought that religion was based on a belief regarding where humans came from, so just believing that you came from monkeys constitutes a religion although not a very organized one.

Though religions often make claims about origins I don't know of any religion that is centered on the concept of human origins. And no, acceptance of evolutionary theory is not a qualifier for what constitutes a religion.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
I agree with the OP.

I do belive that Jesus lived and taught, I also believe he was a radical who disliked everything 'organised' religion had to offer.

Jesus was most certainly not a radical opposed to organized religion. The most radical thing about him was a somewhat unusual empathy in his teachings.

Jesus was Jewish, did he follow what his 'religion' taught him? Just look at the way he treated women, nothing like the dictate of the culture of the time, if that is not a radical what is?

As I said, he had radical empathy. If someone is going to make the case that Jesus was opposed to organized religion (which would be, in his case, the jewish religion) they're going to need to provide the evidence.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer

I would like to respectfully inquire of you, where do you believe humans came from? and what made you choose to be an athiest? to me it would seem to be an awefully hopeless life to think that you have no God to call on for help, because i can tell you that my God has helped me in so many tangable ways, plus I have hope and joy and peace no matter what is going on around me, how can someone who has never experienced a relationship with God, definitely say that it is unreal, what is he basing his opinion on?

Originally posted by infojunkie2

I would like to respectfully inquire of you, where do you believe humans came from?

A long, unbroken chain of life going back millions of years.

and what made you choose to be an athiest?

It's not a matter of choice. There is no evidence of deities existing anywhere. And the claims of religious texts are at odds with reality and the understanding of our universe.

to me it would seem to be an awefully hopeless life to think that you have no God to call on for help, because i can tell you that my God has helped me in so many tangable ways, plus I have hope and joy and peace no matter what is going on around me, how can someone who has never experienced a relationship with God, definitely say that it is unreal, what is he basing his opinion on?

I could have an imaginary friend and be quite content with it, pretending it's responsible for things and could get me through tough times. But I find that existing without false and/or unprovable beliefs to be far more beneficial to the psyche than otherwise. Not having had a "relationship with god" gives me a far better perspective than someone who thinks he does have a relationship with invisible magic man, since I'm not interpreting reality with belief in mystical impossibilities. I don't definitely say that deities don't exist but I will say there's absolutely no objective evidence of such a thing and therefore belief in deities is unjustified.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


The problem is that you can't prove any of what you believe, can you? a theory is not proof mind you. I also wonder if you could tell me about the very first sign of life, whatever it was, before it became a human , does not a design have to have a designer? even your belief says that creation began somewhere, and the beginning of creation had to have a creator . also if humans used to be monkeys and they evolved then shouldn't you as a human ,at least be able to do all the things that monkeys can do, but I doubt that you can swing from trees like monkeys do, but isnt it true that one something evolves it becomes better? so it seems to me that you should be able to swing from trees while singing old macdonald at least.

I would like to clarify something before moving on.'

In my OP, The Jesus/Horus theory that i posted was not put there to try and insult or poke humor at Christianinity..
In my option..they have already done a great job at doing that them selfs.

I have already stated That I myself do not believe a word of the Jesus/Horus connection.. And, i have repeated that through out this thread.

The reason i opened my OP with that, Was to prove a point that..we can not prove the existence of "GOD" though people have tried and failed miserably at this attempt throughout the thread.

So if we can not prove the existence of a god with factual evidence then it leads me to the question..
Why is society based around the teachings and philosophies Behind a book that Possibly holds no "truth"..

So you see who is anyone to say anything is right or wrong in society..If all actions are possibly based and judged around a work of fiction ?

And if the posters that called me a liar are reading this.. Try and wrap your heads around This

If this is not a issue in modern day society then why so much conflict over the subject ?.. Take this thread for example. I don't think there is a single person that posted in this thread that agrees with each other.

You want my take on god? Well i have already offered it. So i will quote what i have previously said.

Originally posted by TechVampyre
reply to post by Reprobation

 

Look at it this way, It makes far more sense to say "How can something exist that has a beginning?" Things that exist are formed of matter.. Things can change in form but can not come into or go out of existence..Matter will always remain.

Every single thing in the entire universe is comprised of matter.. which was then Re-used to form your TV, or the very laptop you are typing this on.. from the never ending matter. For example If you light a log on fire.. The fire burns, how ever the matter still exists.. In the soil the log created..

So nothing that exists had a beginning. the Universe is a giant place filled with all existants.. and all of the matter these existants are made of.. The Universe has no "beginning" but like water it can change forms over time.

But of course if you can't come to terms and agree with a scientific fact, Well then I guess "god" would be a better way to explain it.