Public enemy number one: Organised Religion.

Originally posted by Darkk

But its perfectly okay for people to make the same arguments about religion? Most arguments here about religion are the same thing. "Religion is for controll of people....Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions"

Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions. But in the case of your argument, those regimes didn't kill people in the name of atheism, rather statism, and there's no evidence that belief in some religion would have prevented any of it. Also, there exists strong evidence from multiple studies that show a high correlation between the religiosity of a nation and negative sociological problems.

reply to post by TechVampyre

And how many times in the past have people been persecuted for there religious beliefs..?

It has been done a lot by people with religion and by atheists.

If something such as religion causes as many problems as it does in our society, you have to stop and ask your self why..? why all the conflict.. It can't be over nothing now can it?

Religion is not the root of all the problems like i have said many fascists regimes have been ruled by atheists.

God and Government being brought together is a very major issue my friend.

Ill take that over soviet russia and north korea any day of the week.

Originally posted by Darkk

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Darkk
But some of the most oppresice states in history have been ruled by atheists.

Disingenuous argument. Hitler and Pol Pot were vegetarians, therefore, the most oppressive states in history have been ruled by vegetarians. Vegetarians must therefore be evil. The actions of madmen can't be reduced to a simple matter of belief or disbelief just as they can't be reduced to a simple matter of diet.

But its perfectly okay for people to make the same arguments about religion? Most arguments here about religion are the same thing. "Religion is for controll of people....Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions"

...I'm not even going to go there. .. Look at it this way.. Religion as we know it today, is nothing more then a twisted. distorted version of it's former self.. It has been used to manipulate control, and wage war for centuries.

Originally posted by infojunkie2
because when you hear of the millions that have been removed from this earth

Are you one of those believers in "the rapture", where jesus suddenly vacuums up all the christians into heaven? If so, how long did it take for that intellectual termite to burrow into your brain?

reply to post by Darkk


Define religion. You seem to have a non logical definition of it in your head.

For example, Atheism is a religion..So thank you for further pushing my point.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Darkk

But its perfectly okay for people to make the same arguments about religion? Most arguments here about religion are the same thing. "Religion is for controll of people....Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions"

Religion is responsible for the deaths of millions. But in the case of your argument, those regimes didn't kill people in the name of atheism, rather statism, and there's no evidence that belief in some religion would have prevented any of it. Also, there exists strong evidence from multiple studies that show a high correlation between the religiosity of a nation and negative sociological problems.

But those regimes were all trying to erradicate religion so that everyone could be atheists, how you can ignore that is beyond me.Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history. It is the same as saying religion did not kill those people war did

Originally posted by TechVampyre
reply to post by Darkk

 

Define religion. You seem to have a non logical definition of it in your head.

For example, Atheism is a religion..So thank you for further pushing my point.

Atheism is not a Religion...

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Of course I am, and someday you will believe it too, unless you are one of those who believe the lie that aliens took us, or the lie of the new age that teaches that we are about to enter the age where mother earth is going cleanse herself of those who were just not tolerant enough and could not go to the next level of awareness so we were sent to another dimension to be rehabilitated. Like i said if I am wrong i have nothing to lose, but if you are wrong, you are certainly risking alot arent you?

reply to post by Darkk


If it is practiced it is a religion. firstchurchofatheism.com...

EDIT:Court orders Atheism a religion.

Originally posted by Darkk

But those regimes were all trying to erradicate religion so that everyone could be atheists, how you can ignore that is beyond me.Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history. It is the same as saying religion did not kill those people war did

They removed religion in order to direct attention to the state, which was in effect a de facto proxy religion (as N. Korea is to this day). Soviet Russia even used the preexisting religious structure to accomplish it. In effect, religion made it easier for it to happen.

In any event, the oppression was still not done in the name of atheism and there is no evidence that belief in some religion would have prevented any of it. Look at Hitler: a catholic and theist who repeatedly wrote that he believed he was doing god's work. The actions of madmen are not mitigated by matters of belief.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


But like i have said it is perfectly okay to blame the deaths of many on religion while atheists have done the exact same thing. Those regimes were atheists states

Originally posted by infojunkie2
reply to post by traditionaldrummer

 

Of course I am, and someday you will believe it too, unless you are one of those who believe the lie that aliens took us, or the lie of the new age that teaches that we are about to enter the age where mother earth is going cleanse herself of those who were just not tolerant enough and could not go to the next level of awareness so we were sent to another dimension to be rehabilitated. Like i said if I am wrong i have nothing to lose, but if you are wrong, you are certainly risking alot arent you?

Ahh, Pascal's wager. And so what if you're wrong and it turns out that there's an afterlife ruled by Thor? I guess you're screwed.

No, I don't believe new age, alien nonsense or ancient jewish gods. I feel sorry for those that do and particularly confused by people who believe in "the rapture" since such an event is physically impossible and completely at odds with reality. But, whatever gets you through the night....

Originally posted by Darkk
But like i have said it is perfectly okay to blame the deaths of many on religion while atheists have done the exact same thing. Those regimes were atheists states

Sure, some madmen were atheists. Some madmen were theists. That's why, as I said, it's a disingenuous argument to blame the actions of a few madmen solely on matters of belief.

Originally posted by TechVampyre
reply to post by Darkk

 

If it is practiced it is a religion. firstchurchofatheism.com...

EDIT:Court orders Atheism a religion.

edit on 24-3-2011 by TechVampyre because: (no reason given)

Atheism is not a religion. However, it does have some legal protections that other religions would receive. This fact does not make it a religion though.

Organized religion is what is established around beliefs, some are fine and some are not but they are constructs built around people following an idea whether the idea is right or wrong.

Does the OP want to outlaw belief - which beliefs? When all the believers of deities are exterminated who will be next? How about people that believe in alternatives to main stream science? Shall science die by this mindset too?

The number one enemy is the enemy of freedom and self-determination - which seems to be the predominant attitude of the posters on this thread.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Im not blaming genocide on atheisim, im just ponting out that people are quick to shoot dowm the argument that atheists leaders have been genocidal madmen while at the same time they make the same argument about "religion" as if religion was one giant organization with one set of beliefs.

Originally posted by ararisq
Organized religion is what is established around beliefs, some are fine and some are not but they are constructs built around people following an idea whether the idea is right or wrong.

Does the OP want to outlaw belief - which beliefs? When all the believers of deities are exterminated who will be next? How about people that believe in alternatives to main stream science? Shall science die by this mindset too?

The number one enemy is the enemy of freedom and self-determination - which seems to be the predominant attitude of the posters on this thread.

The only thing i recommended we outlaw was God and Government coming together.. When in reality the two have little to nothing to do with each other..

reply to post by TechVampyre


The separation of church and state was done a loooooooong time ago

Originally posted by Darkk
reply to post by TechVampyre

 

The separation of church and state was done a loooooooong time ago

HA, I will let you believe that..

I'm going to sign off for awhile..I will be back later to further discuss this.

I agree with the OP.

I do belive that Jesus lived and taught, I also believe he was a radical who disliked everything 'organised' religion had to offer.

Why do we have to belong to something to be spiritual? Do we want to be 'organised'?

To be a decent human is in mho what we should all strive for, we don't need organised religion to tell us that.