Who's in charge? Germans pull forces out of NATO as Libyan coalition falls apart

some of the posts in this thread are fantastic , just goes to show how history and modern conflict , can get everyones blood boiling , xenophobia comes right out to play . When we all think we know the answer , because we have all read books written by those who won!

actually go back to the start of the thread and read your comments and see how pathetic most of you are being over a conflict which we as people of so called democratic nations have no choice in. We didnt ask our governments to kill in our names , yet they are doing it , and at the same time driving each of us into arguements. The dictatorship the libyans are dying under have no choice either , soon once all of these places are free from the dictators due to our governments intervention , they will turn on us. However they wont need to do much to break us , as here we are arguing and at each others throats already.

if you want to know who will lead this half assed debocle of a campaign , the answer , no one , it will be dragged into a quagmire of failure. It will spark a war which will burn the cradle of our species .

Instead of speculating on the possibilites and the inevitable failure of our so called allied nations , we should all chip in together and use our " intelligence" to find a solution amongst ourselves, a peacful solution one which doesnt involve the continued systematic killing of our fellow humans .

reply to post by JerryB08


11 million Jews?

Where on earth did you get that figure from?

Originally posted by Mikeyy


Consider this scenario. What If NATO and the US decides that Libya is to hot to handle, we all back out. What does that mean? We've left our ALLIES, the REBELS on their own.

When did these rebels become our allies? They are certainly not my allies. This is an internal conflict in a sovereign nation. We don't even know who they represent or what their values are. Except for the MSM propaganda we have no clue on what they want or what type of society they want to create.

Strange my post disappeared, but here is it again

I think most of us Germans are against this war but on the other hand Germany is in the NATO and we should stick to our allied forces... (my opinion too by the way)

Originally posted by Dalbeck
Let me tell you this as a German: On the one hand it's really a political mess and Germany is in the NATO so Germany should back up the allied forces, but on the other hand I really do think most of the Germans are feeling it's okay if Germany won't join the NATO forces in this "war".

My personal opinion is being a member to the NATO we should join.

It's OK. The USA and UK can handle Qaddafi. Don't worry about it.
We are making a list and checking it twice in Libya. We are destroying his tanks and he's not building
new tanks. His Air Force is grounded and his navy is nothing to worry about.
Qaddafi has been reduced to hiring mercenaries to do his fighting for him.

Originally posted by DankKing420
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

your crazy have you ever heard the song the "London bridge is falling down"? That song came from the massive bombings that Germany was doing to Britain during WW2 before america intervened. I love the people that say America had nothing to do with winning world war 2 in Europe. If the USA hadn't joined Britain and the rest of the world would be speaking German right now. Granted if America would have waited any longer to join they would have been defeated to but only because of their lack of allies because they had already been defeated.

Actually the rhyme originates from the late Roman occupation of Britain when the bridge was made of wood and clay and was partly destroyed by the Vikings, hence the nursery rhyme... The modern version was re-done in 1951..

en.wikipedia.org...

My opinion as for who won WW2.. It depends on which theatre.. Japanese in Asia were defeated by American, British and ANZAC (Australian and New Zealand) forces (Although the US ultimately defeated Japan by use of the Atom Bomb)

Axis powers in the North Africa theatre were largely defeated by Britain..

Europe was liberated by a combined invasion force of British (and commonwealth countries), Canadian, American and Russian forces..

To be honest.. I guess a war is often decided on how much land is 'grabbed' as a result of an invasion.. In that casem the soviets won ww2..

Originally posted by Sailor Sam
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

LIbya is a sovereign country and if the Libyans want to slaugther some of their own - let them do it.

Why should we worry when our "western" governments have no qualms about slaughtering us.

Well, it's too late now. We got the UN vote we wanted. Now we are in it to win it.
It would look good in the history books if we defeated Qaddafi in 2 months.

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Assuming that we do end it quick, the oil money in Libya could be used to rebuild the country.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


hmm it would seem americas usual tactics have changed , if the US really wanted regime change they would have just hired some good ol CIA boys to do a hit on Ghadaffi and install some puppet friendly to US foreign policy as is the trademark move of the US and has been for some time. We all learned that trick from the US .
No drone attacks either , so something is definetly up.

Instead they are now dragggin themselves into a war which could last longer, there is so much more to this than meets the eye , as is usual .

reply to post by sapien82


Time will tell. Lets just see where we are May 24, 2011.
I'm optimistic about this Qaddafi operation.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by blackcat99

 

Actually, it ended the great depression. Suddenly, everyone had a job!
Also, the poor Brits were hanging on by their finger nails. - The Battle of Britain -
We had to help them out. - B -17s

in what way did you help with the battle of britain? the only help we had from you was a few pilots who flew with us but thats about it and theres no way we would have lost regardless of how close to defeat we may have got.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I think it was Joe Biden who once said that "Europe can't agree on anything."
It looks like he was right.
Obama may have to go it alone.
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If we went in full force, I think we could win this in about 2 months.
I wonder what Hillary is advising Obama to do now???

Biden also said he would impeach Bush if he went to war with Iraq without congressional approval. What's he saying now that his boss has done the very same thing?

Originally posted by jonnyb578

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by blackcat99

 

Actually, it ended the great depression. Suddenly, everyone had a job!
Also, the poor Brits were hanging on by their finger nails. - The Battle of Britain -
We had to help them out. - B -17s

in what way did you help with the battle of britain? the only help we had from you was a few pilots who flew with us but thats about it and theres no way we would have lost regardless of how close to defeat we may have got.

There were ten pilots who flew with the RAF's Eagle squadron (no kills tho)

As much as we were holding our own in the BoB.. The thing is.. We would not have survived without the help from the USA in terms of arms, food and other stuff brought in from the Atlantic convoys.. Germany was basically starving us to death.... If it wasn't for Hitler's blundering attempt to fight on two fronts, operation sealion would have eventually succeded and we would have certainly been invaded..

Originally posted by centurion1211
This is eaxctly what many of us feared with obama failing (once again) to lead.

source

Deep divisions between allied forces currently bombing Libya worsened today as the German military announced it was pulling forces out of NATO over continued disagreement on who will lead the campaign.

A German military spokesman said it was recalling two frigates and AWACS surveillance plane crews from the Mediterranean, after fears they would be drawn into the conflict if NATO takes over control from the U.S.

We are all getting a clearer picture of where this Libyan campaign is headed - and it's not good at all.

If the mission falls apart with Gaddafi still in power then the following will be true:

- Gaddafi will turn and slaughter the people we said we were doing this to protecct.

- Gaddafi will be one pissed off SOB at the west, and will no doubt retaliate with terror attacks and any other way he can.

THIS is what lack of leadership causes.

It's got nothing to do with "leadership". Sarkozy has very strong leadership in his government and yet he's one of the main responsible for this mess... if not the THE main responsible.

It's about INTEGRITY... like staying true to oaths taken in front of a Congress, or House, instead of crumbling from behind pressure. What Obama, Clinton, Cameron and Sarkozy aren't even doing.

reply to post by MrKipling


Thank you for spelling out the truth and you're welcome.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm trying to remember. We sent over B-17 bombers and bombed during the day?
The RAF bombed at night?
-------------------------------------------------
About how many American troops were in Europe around March 1945?

Originally posted by JerryB08
reply to post by Danbones

 

Well that a new one EH? A Canadian Confederate that supports slavery?? Who says I'm not EH?

Whoa, hold that S* right there pal. Every time someone sees the confederate flag it is the same S* gets spouted about supporting slavery. There was a lot more going on than just slavery, and every time someone uses that as their attack it just proves they have no other way of getting to anyone but through calling them a slave supporter. I could spend a great deal of time enlightening you on the subject. If you can't find a way to discredit an argument let it go instead of resulting to insults, racial or religious slurs, or stupid stereotypes.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by MrKipling

 

Thank you for spelling out the truth and you're welcome.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm trying to remember. We sent over B-17 bombers and bombed during the day?
The RAF bombed at night?
-------------------------------------------------
About how many American troops were in Europe around March 1945?

I'm English and proud of what my country did in the initial stages of WW2 against all the odds but if it wasn't for help from across the pond we would have almost certainly surrendered or signed a peace treaty.. That's a fact.. Problem is.. How many times do we have to have it shoved in our faces?

B17 bombers arrived AFTER the Battle of Britain and after the commencement of Operation overlord.. British bombers were already pounding German cities in retaliation before you guys finally got your thumbs out your asses and realised if Hitler could sweep across Europe in a couple of years you could be next!!

reply to post by MrKipling


yeah good point i didnt really think about that. my point was that they didnt help in a direct way. but yeah your probably right about the rest of it.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by Jbones
so let me get this straight.. we are in charge once again? and failing miserably?

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Well, no. We were always in charge. The coalition was just a public relations stunt.
Qaddafi forces took a pounding in eastern Libya. F-15s/ F-16s
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If the British would just pound Qaddafi in western Libya this could work.
Destroy his air force - Destroy his navy - Pound his army and mercenaries into surrender
-- Game over --

Obama does not want game over... he doesn't want to take responsibility for "regime change"...

By the way.. I think in all due to respect to the OP we should get back on topic before someone says ' We kicked British butt in the independance war'

yesterday was yesterday.... today is today.... tomorrow will not be tomorrow if we don`t pull together and and learn to live in peace. who cares who won what when...maybe we should care who what when about tomorrow, after all, that history hasnt been wrote yet and maybe if we do the right thing, we all can take credit for job well done. Just a thought.
maybe if we spent our time trying to fix a problem instead of taking credit for a past problem, we may just learn that tomorrow may be worth saving. it all starts with us as a whole not them as in other nations. we all bleed red, we all want what is right, we all need to be loved. so to Quote a famous line " Can`t we all just get along". tomorrow is what counts, and i think that we can make that tomorrow be a good one. all our kids are counting on us.