It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Onboard2
I'm sure many men would too! Wishful thinking?
Originally posted by zroth
Originally posted by SuperiorEd
I will prove this to you!
Subscribing to the thread so I don't miss it when it comes.
Peace
I'll summarize the proof so far.
Life is like a river that flows form its source.
Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow.
*
We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.
*
I say, by my opening statement at the start of this thread, that chance does not exist.
It is the providence of God working in our lives.
*
All of reality works from governing laws.
All actions have consequences and reactions.
We reap what we sow.
*
Nothing rises above its source apart from consciousness. A living acorn grows. A dead acorn rots in the soil. Life animates all living organisms against entropy. Apart from life, the river takes you down stream.
I'll summarize the proof so far.
Life is like a river that flows form its source. Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow. We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.
We are all influenced by choice, chance and the actions of others. I say, by my opening statement at the start of this thread, that chance does not exist. It is the providence of God working in our lives. All of reality works from governing laws. All actions have consequences and reactions. We reap what we sow. Since we cannot do anything in this reality that is not answered by the governing laws of the universe, we are left with only one choice of free will--Belief. All sin is an act of disbelief against the laws of God.
Nothing rises above its source apart from consciousness. A living acorn grows. A dead acorn rots in the soil. Life animates all living organisms against entropy. Apart from life, the river takes you down stream.
The universe, man and the Bible are all reflections of God in imperfection. You choose what you see as you look in the mirror. You either work your way up the stream back to the source, or you take the lazy river to the end. Either way, your only act of free will is belief.
(Perhaps) the human brain has been (naturally) selected to over-infer agency – personal, animate, and intentional forces – behind otherwise natural phenomena whose exact causes cannot be known. This is because over-inferring agency – and making a Type I error of false positive – makes you a bit paranoid, but being paranoid is often conducive to survival. In contrast, under-inferring agency – and making a Type II error of false negative – can result in being killed and maimed by predators and enemies that were incorrectly assumed not to exist. So, evolutionarily speaking, it’s good to be a bit paranoid, because being paranoid can often save your life. Religiosity – belief in higher powers – may be a by-product of such over-inference of agency and intentional forces behind natural phenomena. Source
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
The biblical god is a retelling of the Sumerian god El which is very evident in the original Hebrew bible which certainly predates the christian bible. We can even point out various myths taken directly from Sumerian mythology, such as Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden, Noah's flood, etc. Modern Christianity is a direct descendant of Sumerian religious beliefs. The biblical god even had a wife with the same damn name as a Sumerian goddess! Let along he called himself El on numerous occasions.
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
I'll summarize the proof so far.
I don't think you understand the definition of proof.
Life is like a river that flows form its source. Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow. We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.
Or we are the mirrors of an advanced extraterrestrial race who created us as a virtual environment. A supernatural deity need not apply here at all.
I'll answer this one first. Sitchen is flat wrong in his translations and interpretations of the Sumerian texts. He has been debunked long ago by nearly every scholar who knows the difference between someone trying to sell books and someone practicing true scholarship and research.
The topic of the thread is proof of a creator, not that the Creator is the Hebrew God. I think it is, but the thread is proof that we are created.
I'm going with the Corpus Hermeticum and the Bible, tracing the pre-flood saga through Enoch 1 and the following it to Thrice Great Hermes (Enoch, Joseph and Moses). We have much more evidence for this path through history than we do Sitchen's misinterpretation of cuneiform. He is a fraud.
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
I'll answer this one first. Sitchen is flat wrong in his translations and interpretations of the Sumerian texts. He has been debunked long ago by nearly every scholar who knows the difference between someone trying to sell books and someone practicing true scholarship and research.
I agree, he is a fraud which is why I never once mentioned him. I'm talking about archeological history here, not about Sitchen.
The topic of the thread is proof of a creator, not that the Creator is the Hebrew God. I think it is, but the thread is proof that we are created.
No proof has been provided. The argument given was one of infinite regression. Because we can create virtual worlds, we must then be created by a creator ourselves, in which case that creator must also have equally been a creation of some higher creator than he, and on and on and on and on, etc.
In the Bible, God goes by different names depending on the context of his appearing. Each has a unique meaning as to his message. These names also come from the differing languages and terms used by the different tribes and dispersions of the Hebrew people. Because these names also appear in the preflood texts of Sumeria, Egypt and Babylonia is not surprising. Hermes calls him NOUS. All names for ONE God.
Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
I'm going with the Corpus Hermeticum and the Bible, tracing the pre-flood saga through Enoch 1 and the following it to Thrice Great Hermes (Enoch, Joseph and Moses). We have much more evidence for this path through history than we do Sitchen's misinterpretation of cuneiform. He is a fraud.
I hope you realize that the bible and scriptures are only proof of one thing...what people believed to be true during that time, based on their (compared to today) limited knowledge. It's NOT objective proof supporting your claims!
edit on 4-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)
Please remember the title of the thread. "Creator or Chance Accident" This thread is about proving that we have been created as opposed to a chance accident. Remember, this accident of so called evolution would need to have taken place on a primordial Earth, apart from any biologically produced chemical. The Earth before any life would have been totally devoid of any byproduct of life. PURE CHANCE.
Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
Please remember the title of the thread. "Creator or Chance Accident" This thread is about proving that we have been created as opposed to a chance accident. Remember, this accident of so called evolution would need to have taken place on a primordial Earth, apart from any biologically produced chemical. The Earth before any life would have been totally devoid of any byproduct of life. PURE CHANCE.
Well, you haven't provided any objective evidence that would support your claim a creator even exists. Furthermore, no one's saying it was an accident...scientists don't even know for sure how it happened, so they can't say it was an accident. What they're saying is "we don't know" what started life...you are filling that gap in knowledge with MAGIC (aka god) without providing the slightest bit of objective evidence.
All you do is quote the bible, which is demonstrably NOT objective evidence for anything other than what people believed 2000 years ago.