It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

page: 6
22
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by Onboard2
 


Hallucinations have been shown to exist. What you're claiming, however, has no credible evidence. Oh yeah, and personal experience doesn't count, something about bias.

What you're claiming is unscientific, and if you believe that it happened, that doesn't make it true. Also, if it did indeed happen, how do you know that it WASN'T a hallucination? You don't. You experience it as if it's real. That's how hallucinations work.
edit on 1-4-2011 by PieKeeper because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:52 PM
link   
reply to post by PieKeeper
 


Thank you! I was wondering if I was the only individual in this discussion with a sound working brain.

Hallucinations are annoying, especially when my pocket starts vibrating... Damn, get all excited thinking someone texted me only to realize it was a phantom vibration.

Bet some women would love to have that sensation in their pockets lmao



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 09:09 PM
link   
I'm sure many men would too! Wishful thinking?



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 09:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Onboard2
I'm sure many men would too! Wishful thinking?


Ewwwwwwwww! No thanks. I prefer warm and wet... just saying.

Now this crap has gotten off topic lmao



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 10:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
I will prove this to you!


Subscribing to the thread so I don't miss it when it comes.

Peace


Where do I send my refund request?

The only thing proved in this thread is that language will never suffice in this world.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 11:18 PM
link   
reply to post by zroth
 


No.. the only thing proved in this thread is that the majority of humanity lack the mental faculty to think critically and logically about the world around them.



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 11:22 PM
link   
reply to post by sirnex
 



we must understand proof as different concepts.

I doubt this thread is representative of the majority of humanity.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 08:48 PM
link   
I'll summarize the proof so far.

Life is like a river that flows form its source. Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow. We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.

We are all influenced by choice, chance and the actions of others. I say, by my opening statement at the start of this thread, that chance does not exist. It is the providence of God working in our lives. All of reality works from governing laws. All actions have consequences and reactions. We reap what we sow. Since we cannot do anything in this reality that is not answered by the governing laws of the universe, we are left with only one choice of free will--Belief. All sin is an act of disbelief against the laws of God.

Nothing rises above its source apart from consciousness. A living acorn grows. A dead acorn rots in the soil. Life animates all living organisms against entropy. Apart from life, the river takes you down stream.

The universe, man and the Bible are all reflections of God in imperfection. You choose what you see as you look in the mirror. You either work your way up the stream back to the source, or you take the lazy river to the end. Either way, your only act of free will is belief.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 09:38 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I'll summarize the proof so far.

Good idea.


Life is like a river that flows form its source.

What is the source of life – do you mean its origin or its cause?

What is the origin? How can you be sure?

What is the cause? How can you be sure?


Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow.

Against the flow of what? Of life? ‘Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow of life’? What the hell does that mean? The statement is meaningless.

*



We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.

You mean our ability to build computers and create virtual environments is proof that God exists and is creative? This conclusion is far from obvious, so before we accept it you must explain it.

By the way, ‘as above, so below’ is not a principle in logic, nor is it in science. It is one of the rules of magic, and magic does not work.

*



I say, by my opening statement at the start of this thread, that chance does not exist.

Quantum mechanics explains, in very specific terms, why you are wrong.


It is the providence of God working in our lives.

This is called assuming what you are trying to prove.

*



All of reality works from governing laws.

Yes.


All actions have consequences and reactions.

Yes.


We reap what we sow.

No. Karma is not an infallible law of nature.

*



Nothing rises above its source apart from consciousness. A living acorn grows. A dead acorn rots in the soil. Life animates all living organisms against entropy. Apart from life, the river takes you down stream.

This is the core of your ‘argument’, but it has been disproved many times in this thread already. Your concept of some forms of organization of matter being ‘higher’ than others has no real-world meaning; it is only a metaphor, and a chauvinistic one at that. Local concentrations of negentropy are possible in a number of ways; life is not required. However, entropy always wins in the end. Your argument is derived from primitive magical thinking, not science or logic. In no way can it be said to constitute proof.

I think you should give zroth his or her refund now.


edit on 3/4/11 by Astyanax because: of karma.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 11:00 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



I'll summarize the proof so far.


I don't think you understand the definition of proof.


Life is like a river that flows form its source. Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow. We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.


Or we are the mirrors of an advanced extraterrestrial race who created us as a virtual environment. A supernatural deity need not apply here at all.


We are all influenced by choice, chance and the actions of others. I say, by my opening statement at the start of this thread, that chance does not exist. It is the providence of God working in our lives. All of reality works from governing laws. All actions have consequences and reactions. We reap what we sow. Since we cannot do anything in this reality that is not answered by the governing laws of the universe, we are left with only one choice of free will--Belief. All sin is an act of disbelief against the laws of God.


I agree, there is no such thing as chance, but not due to a supernatural deity, but instead due to the universe being deterministic in nature. Every even is preceded by a cause, it's an inescapable fact. We can pretend it's due to a supernatural deity all we want, but it simply isn't true.


Nothing rises above its source apart from consciousness. A living acorn grows. A dead acorn rots in the soil. Life animates all living organisms against entropy. Apart from life, the river takes you down stream.


Actually life follows the laws of entropy. Where you get the idea that life flows against entropy is beyond me. Life is not a closed system mind you. I'm going to assume you have very little understanding of entropy to even entertain such a ridiculous idea.


The universe, man and the Bible are all reflections of God in imperfection. You choose what you see as you look in the mirror. You either work your way up the stream back to the source, or you take the lazy river to the end. Either way, your only act of free will is belief.


The biblical god is a retelling of the Sumerian god El which is very evident in the original Hebrew bible which certainly predates the christian bible. We can even point out various myths taken directly from Sumerian mythology, such as Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden, Noah's flood, etc. Modern Christianity is a direct descendant of Sumerian religious beliefs. The biblical god even had a wife with the same damn name as a Sumerian goddess! Let along he called himself El on numerous occasions.



posted on Apr, 3 2011 @ 11:11 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 

The following seems to explain quite neatly how you came by your ‘theory’.


(Perhaps) the human brain has been (naturally) selected to over-infer agency – personal, animate, and intentional forces – behind otherwise natural phenomena whose exact causes cannot be known. This is because over-inferring agency – and making a Type I error of false positive – makes you a bit paranoid, but being paranoid is often conducive to survival. In contrast, under-inferring agency – and making a Type II error of false negative – can result in being killed and maimed by predators and enemies that were incorrectly assumed not to exist. So, evolutionarily speaking, it’s good to be a bit paranoid, because being paranoid can often save your life. Religiosity – belief in higher powers – may be a by-product of such over-inference of agency and intentional forces behind natural phenomena. Source

Over-inferring is what you’ve been doing from the outset here.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 03:21 PM
link   
I'll answer this one first. Sitchen is flat wrong in his translations and interpretations of the Sumerian texts. He has been debunked long ago by nearly every scholar who knows the difference between someone trying to sell books and someone practicing true scholarship and research.

He has no formal training in reading cuneiform tablets. I'm going with the Corpus Hermeticum and the Bible, tracing the pre-flood saga through Enoch 1 and the following it to Thrice Great Hermes (Enoch, Joseph and Moses). We have much more evidence for this path through history than we do Sitchen's misinterpretation of cuneiform. He is a fraud.

READ HERE



Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




The biblical god is a retelling of the Sumerian god El which is very evident in the original Hebrew bible which certainly predates the christian bible. We can even point out various myths taken directly from Sumerian mythology, such as Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden, Noah's flood, etc. Modern Christianity is a direct descendant of Sumerian religious beliefs. The biblical god even had a wife with the same damn name as a Sumerian goddess! Let along he called himself El on numerous occasions.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 03:23 PM
link   
The topic of the thread is proof of a creator, not that the Creator is the Hebrew God. I think it is, but the thread is proof that we are created.


Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



I'll summarize the proof so far.


I don't think you understand the definition of proof.


Life is like a river that flows form its source. Only life and consciousness can swim back against the flow. We are mirrors of a creative God, as demonstrated by our own creations of artificial realities, computer environments and so on.


Or we are the mirrors of an advanced extraterrestrial race who created us as a virtual environment. A supernatural deity need not apply here at all.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 03:46 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



I'll answer this one first. Sitchen is flat wrong in his translations and interpretations of the Sumerian texts. He has been debunked long ago by nearly every scholar who knows the difference between someone trying to sell books and someone practicing true scholarship and research.


I agree, he is a fraud which is why I never once mentioned him. I'm talking about archeological history here, not about Sitchen.


The topic of the thread is proof of a creator, not that the Creator is the Hebrew God. I think it is, but the thread is proof that we are created.


No proof has been provided. The argument given was one of infinite regression. Because we can create virtual worlds, we must then be created by a creator ourselves, in which case that creator must also have equally been a creation of some higher creator than he, and on and on and on and on, etc.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 04:22 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





I'm going with the Corpus Hermeticum and the Bible, tracing the pre-flood saga through Enoch 1 and the following it to Thrice Great Hermes (Enoch, Joseph and Moses). We have much more evidence for this path through history than we do Sitchen's misinterpretation of cuneiform. He is a fraud.


I hope you realize that the bible and scriptures are only proof of one thing...what people believed to be true during that time, based on their (compared to today) limited knowledge. It's NOT objective proof supporting your claims!



edit on 4-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:00 PM
link   
Sitchen is the only source for this misinformation.

In the Bible, God goes by different names depending on the context of his appearing. Each has a unique meaning as to his message. These names also come from the differing languages and terms used by the different tribes and dispersions of the Hebrew people. Because these names also appear in the preflood texts of Sumeria, Egypt and Babylonia is not surprising. Hermes calls him NOUS. All names for ONE God. LINK


Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 



I'll answer this one first. Sitchen is flat wrong in his translations and interpretations of the Sumerian texts. He has been debunked long ago by nearly every scholar who knows the difference between someone trying to sell books and someone practicing true scholarship and research.


I agree, he is a fraud which is why I never once mentioned him. I'm talking about archeological history here, not about Sitchen.


The topic of the thread is proof of a creator, not that the Creator is the Hebrew God. I think it is, but the thread is proof that we are created.


No proof has been provided. The argument given was one of infinite regression. Because we can create virtual worlds, we must then be created by a creator ourselves, in which case that creator must also have equally been a creation of some higher creator than he, and on and on and on and on, etc.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:12 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





In the Bible, God goes by different names depending on the context of his appearing. Each has a unique meaning as to his message. These names also come from the differing languages and terms used by the different tribes and dispersions of the Hebrew people. Because these names also appear in the preflood texts of Sumeria, Egypt and Babylonia is not surprising. Hermes calls him NOUS. All names for ONE God.


And again, the bible isn't objective proof for anything but what people believed to be true 2000 years ago given their limited knowledge compared to our scientific knowledge today.


If that's your "proof", you don't really have anything that can be considered "proof"



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:15 PM
link   
Please remember the title of the thread. "Creator or Chance Accident" This thread is about proving that we have been created as opposed to a chance accident. Remember, this accident of so called evolution would need to have taken place on a primordial Earth, apart from any biologically produced chemical. The Earth before any life would have been totally devoid of any byproduct of life. PURE CHANCE. No flow away from entropy and no choice to produce that first cell capable of Chemiosmosis.

The vast majority of readers on this board would agree that Aliens exist. Most of them would admit that we have probably been seeded from another part of the universe with genetic manipulation. YET, when God is thrown into it, they run back to the bias against God and claim that we are a mere chance of evolution. Which is it? You can't have it both ways. My proof was for a creator. Not necessarily God. Although, God, for me, is the obvious answer.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





I'm going with the Corpus Hermeticum and the Bible, tracing the pre-flood saga through Enoch 1 and the following it to Thrice Great Hermes (Enoch, Joseph and Moses). We have much more evidence for this path through history than we do Sitchen's misinterpretation of cuneiform. He is a fraud.


I hope you realize that the bible and scriptures are only proof of one thing...what people believed to be true during that time, based on their (compared to today) limited knowledge. It's NOT objective proof supporting your claims!



edit on 4-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 07:25 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Please remember the title of the thread. "Creator or Chance Accident" This thread is about proving that we have been created as opposed to a chance accident. Remember, this accident of so called evolution would need to have taken place on a primordial Earth, apart from any biologically produced chemical. The Earth before any life would have been totally devoid of any byproduct of life. PURE CHANCE.


Well, you haven't provided any objective evidence that would support your claim a creator even exists. Furthermore, no one's saying it was an accident...scientists don't even know for sure how it happened, so they can't say it was an accident. What they're saying is "we don't know" what started life...you are filling that gap in knowledge with MAGIC (aka god) without providing the slightest bit of objective evidence.

All you do is quote the bible, which is demonstrably NOT objective evidence for anything other than what people believed 2000 years ago.



posted on Apr, 4 2011 @ 08:33 PM
link   
The objective evidence is that nothing can flow up stream without choice, consciousness, purpose and design. Nothing escapes entropy. Life is the defining factor. All of nature flows one way, except for life. A dead acorn rots. A live acorn grows by a design with purpose. It is encoded with information. Even the information cannot activate apart from that "Magic" of life. The soul is the modem between the spirit and the material.

Quantum dynamics backs me up. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle; quantum entanglement; it all points to God under the hood. They all back up the physics in the Bible. Fiat Lux (let there be light) is the start of all physics. The duality of light is the fact that all particles have an associated wave. The LOGOS is an idea that predates all our science. The Son of God is the WORD. Word is LOGOS and is a wave. This is all of physics in a nutshell.

According to Hermes and the Poimandres:

Direct quote, "I Nous, your God, who was before the watery substance which appeared out of the darkness; and the clear Word from Nous is the Son of God."

According to the Bible, John 1, "In the Beginning was the WORD (LOGOS). The Word in the Bible is the Son of God, Christ. The wave that is associated with the Light. Again, all of physics is summarized in the opening line of the Bible and then in the conclusion with the Son of God being revealed as the associated wave to God. A wave carries the particle to our consciousness. Again, simplicity in parable. A metaphor for the mind. God in symbol. All of reality is this image of man in God's image. Nature declares the glory.

The most important thing you could possibly read is this: Your inheritance is the Universe. Ephesians Ch. 1-3

What do you get in your inheritance? The Universe.

Deuteronomy 4:19 And take heed, lest you lift your eyes to heaven, and when you see the sun, the moon, and the stars, all the host of heaven, you feel driven to worship them and serve them, which the LORD your God has given to all the peoples under the whole heaven as a heritage.

What is Heaven? The Universe.

Genesis 15:5
Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”

The Bible makes the claim that believers inherit the Universe. He makes the claim that He created the universe with what is unseen. LOGOS. Hebrews 11:3. That unseen would be the quantum dynamics of the microcosm (dark matter). He makes the claim that Word is His Son. Particle and Wave duality. Light is both a particle and wave. All particles have an associated wave. The sun and the wave of the moon makes life on earth. The egg and the wave of the sperm makes life in man. The left hand and the right hand. The left foot and the right foot. Ears, male female, up down, right left, good evil. All pairs are particle with associated wave. Temperature in degree. Hot cold. Degrees of electromagnetic energy. Keep going throughout all of nature and you see the same. All your senses are degrees of difference in pairs.

Really is more about what is not seen than what is seen in the image of the material world. How much more proof can you deny? It's so obvious if you just dare to believe that the material world of decay is not true reality.

Corpus Hermeticum

"For man, time is a destroyer, but for the Cosmos it is an ever-turning wheel. These earthly forms that come and go are illusions. How can something be real which never stays the same? But these transitory illusory things arise from the underlying permanent reality."

Discourses of Rumi

"The lover of God realizes all these desires are truly the desire for God, and they are all veils
covering humanity’s eyes. When we pass into the next world and behold Reality without these
veils, then we realize all those were veils and coverings, and that our true quest in reality is for one
thing. All difficulties are then resolved, we hear in our hearts the answer to all questions, and everything is seen clearly face to face.

Bible 1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

There you go. More proof. If you need more, I've got plenty!



Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Please remember the title of the thread. "Creator or Chance Accident" This thread is about proving that we have been created as opposed to a chance accident. Remember, this accident of so called evolution would need to have taken place on a primordial Earth, apart from any biologically produced chemical. The Earth before any life would have been totally devoid of any byproduct of life. PURE CHANCE.


Well, you haven't provided any objective evidence that would support your claim a creator even exists. Furthermore, no one's saying it was an accident...scientists don't even know for sure how it happened, so they can't say it was an accident. What they're saying is "we don't know" what started life...you are filling that gap in knowledge with MAGIC (aka god) without providing the slightest bit of objective evidence.

All you do is quote the bible, which is demonstrably NOT objective evidence for anything other than what people believed 2000 years ago.

edit on 4-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
22
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join