Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Again, your bias blinds. Every green plant comes from photosynthesis (again from light) and then provides the root of the food chain for ALL life on earth.

Oh really?
You're wrong once again...

Sharks are not a beast of the earth (soil), but the sea. When speaking of earth, he is again speaking of what comes from the soil.

Tigers, Lions, wolves, and hundreds of other species...soil, check...not herbivores, check

Even if we take my former post as incorrect, plants are the key to all life in the food chain of land dwellers. Then we see the divine beings in chapter 6 messing with the seed of man. In Enoch 1, they also mess with the seed of animals.

Wait...so now divine intervention (aka magic) turned some animals into carnivores?

We know of animals that are now extinct, animals that lived millions of years ago...and they also existed before homo sapiens ever evolved...and guess what, they were carnivores

Doesn't fit the timeline in the bible at all, but who cares about facts, right?

Do they have a motive to mess with what God created?

I can't believe I have to ask this again...what's your OBJECTIVE evidence that god even exists?

"To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the sky, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food," and it was so.

Except for that it really didn't happen

Thanks for the comments on this thread. Let me know if I have proven this to you. If not, just provide the science that refutes my claims.

Here is one final proof. If you can't get it from this, I can't help you. Refute it all you want. It's proof and my last word on the subject. I will rely on a few words from previous posts and some new points as well.

Let's travel back to the first verse of the Bible. What we really need is definitive proof of God as the architect of all matter. This is easily achieved. Not proving God as a defined fact, just that he Created. This is fact.

To save space, I will provide links.

As a review of what I first stated, light is where it starts for all matter. God says He provided the Light. Fiat Lux, let there be light. Then in John 1, he claims His Son is the Word (Logos). This is the wave that carries the light. Light is a duality of particle and wave. All particles have an associated wave. Higgs Boson is the last particle and wave yet to be found.

Genesis 1.1 is the schematic of the mathematics of light to geometry. Proof is HERE

If you think this is not proof, then visit Here for the exact mathematics in relation to the first verse of the Bible. All verses of the Bible then can be decoded this same way to reveal the blueprints to reality. Each verse describes the outer layer of the onion, then the reset of the layers are in relation to the mathematics of each verse, as reflected in the links provided.

Here is my take on reality form a standpoint of how it comes about from light.

The imperfection in us is necessary. God is at rest. We are becoming as God is. If there is to be a we, then we can't be God or there is (not are) two perfections at once. That is a perfect image and makes God two. God is one. For Him to Create us, he starts with a point. That's Him, the infinity of possibility at rest. This is just a simple analogy, so hold on. Matter is created from the second point, forming a line. Move that line now and you get a plane. The plane is created one slice at a time as it moves. Now create cube, expanding from all sides of the plane and you have slices again in three dimensions. From these three dimensions, we get form of all types. Now move that form and you get a slice of time. The form moves by possibility, just as the form was created from possibility. Although we are connected to God as the first separate point, our point had to be less than Him to be different. Think of all of this happening at one time by the process of light and wave. Particle and wave duality is what makes up light. Each particle has an associated wave. A galaxy is a toilet that flushes backwards at first, then rolls back on itself creating form by streaming data as it drains back to the source. As above, so below. One side of the universe, through an opening between, then back again. Zero point of infinity in the middle.

Now you get deeper into the process. The particle and wave is streaming data that works from the first dimension out through all the dimensions. As it produces form in the simple process above, we get layers of structure in a fractal. Again, this is simplified as a symbol. If there were second dimensional creatures, they see the second dimensional plane unfold a slice at a comparative time. The third dimension sees the slices of the fourth dimension of movement. Movement is the key. To create form, there must be movement in counter-motion to the first fixed dimension in a vortex. The spin we see display in the golden ratio and in DNA is evidence of the double helix pattern used by the wave to form matter. You only see a slice of everything that exists. There is another half. Google 'tree of life' and then look at the tree and the roots below. It all starts below and then streams up to infinity in forms that come from infinite possibility by collapsing wave function (best analogy we have). All of this arises from the other side where all possibility and infinity is at rest, in all states possible at once. We are merely a reflection of that in parts. We define this as imperfection. On the other side, we are a complete sculpture. Our consciousness merely rides the wave of possibility. It's always now.

But wait, there's more. Entropy heads to decay and disorder. Consciousness, which is directly connected to the original state of infinity at rest, is able to move back against the flow of imperfection to realize this movement back as a journey. The laws that govern the process are set to react when you act, keeping you on a path of movement against death and decay, while the body is used up along the way. This is what we see as punishment. Reward is what we see when we achieve back-flow. Providence is what we call chance. This is the designer from the state of rest acting through the state of imperfect possibility. God, the governor of it all. Love, the state of rest. Hope, the movement back to Love.

Read 1 Corinthians 13. Read Genesis 1 (Light). Read John 1 (Wave). Read the Bible for all it's worth.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


So basically your "proof" is believing the bible

You might wanna look up the definition of proof

PS: Why do you continue to repeat that entropy nonsense (amongst others) after multiple people have shown you how wrong your claim is??

No. Basically my proof is that there are mathematics in the very first line of Genesis which describe all of geometry. In the next verse, God describes how he did it. Duality of Light. Please speak to the context of the post with science. Read the links. Bring something to the table besides your bias. Refute the mathematics provided in the links.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

So basically your "proof" is believing the bible

You might wanna look up the definition of proof

PS: Why do you continue to repeat that entropy nonsense (amongst others) after multiple people have shown you how wrong your claim is??

edit on 24-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

reply to post by SuperiorEd


We don't even know how the universe started off...yet you claim it "fits the bible"...completely illogical

I have no idea how it fits the bible completely. I am relying on the science that we know up to this day and age to see the obvious connections to what sheep herders said thousands of years ago. They were really accurate. I am noticing that we have texts all over the place, not found in the Bible, that say or elude to the same things said in science and in the Bible. Based on this, I see that the entire Bible claims to know more than we do. As I keep reading and researching, it proves itself. From this platform, I then make the decision to have faith in what is said. Until it lets me down, I see no evidence anywhere that it is inaccurate. Therefore, based on current science and the Biblical analogies to this science, I see the overall plan for man and I like it. Education can sometimes be tough. No doubt. I can disagree, but in the end, the overwhelming genius that went into building a reality for me to have vision overrides my lack of understanding with only 43 years of life to show for my knowledge. I am humbled by it. Love is where the search ends. Love conquers all.

Am I incorrect in a few places with my science. Sure. Yet, I dare to try. Most of what I say is dead on with current theory. I take great pains to research with my free time.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

We don't even know how the universe started off...yet you claim it "fits the bible"...completely illogical

reply to post by SuperiorEd


It's cool you're trying to research. The problem is, you're blatantly ignoring things that don't "fit". Take your entropy example, some guy here posted a long post why it doesn't work that way. You continue to spread that disinfo anyway. And the same goes for the other stuff people proved you wrong...floods, timeframes, humans just popping up in their current form instead of evolving, and the list goes on...all nonsense, but you just ignore it.

And the last "proof" you posted isn't really proof at all. For that we'd have to know for sure (objective evidence) how the universe came to be. We don't. Ergo you can't claim the bible is "really accurate", especially if it's demonstrably wrong in many cases.

The entropy guy was incorrect by perspective. Just like those who argue that a sound changes pitch. If you are on the train, the sound doesn't change. If you are watching the train as it passes, the sound changes. The truth is the excluded middle. What the entropy commenter did not realize are the facts surrounding entropy in information theory. It was lost on him and maybe you until now. The Doppler effect shows us how the train can be confusing to the rider and to the observer. Since they are both people, perspective is what counts. Bias says that the perplexity cannot be possible. Truth always reveals itself to the slave who searches for the Emerald among the pegmatite. Hope is possibility. Without Faith, Hope and Love, bias says there are no possibilities to consider. Treat God with equality, the same way you want to be treated by others, and God works with you.

From Joseph (PtahHotep - 5th Dyansty Egypt) Maxims

"Be not arrogant because of that which you know; deal with the ignorant as with the learned; for the barriers of art are not closed, no artist being in possession of the perfection to which he should aspire. But good words are more difficult to find than the emerald, for it is by slaves that that is discovered among the rocks of pegmatite."

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

It's cool you're trying to research. The problem is, you're blatantly ignoring things that don't "fit". Take your entropy example, some guy here posted a long post why it doesn't work that way. You continue to spread that disinfo anyway. And the same goes for the other stuff people proved you wrong...floods, timeframes, humans just popping up in their current form instead of evolving, and the list goes on...all nonsense, but you just ignore it.

And the last "proof" you posted isn't really proof at all. For that we'd have to know for sure (objective evidence) how the universe came to be. We don't. Ergo you can't claim the bible is "really accurate", especially if it's demonstrably wrong in many cases.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


You're still taking a huuuuuuuge leap of faith claiming a deity has anything to do with it.

If you really care about where we come from:


No magic required

Good video. I've seen it. It confirms the connection I make to God. All possibility at rest. If the universe was only our solar system, then I would be less likely to see God as a designer. The fact that it is infinity, and God claims infinity (alpha and omega), gives me pause for complete faith. The fact that above is as below allows us to see down just as far as we look up. As a matter of fact, by scale, humans are on the large side of the universe. There are far more small things than large things. We are high up from the lower fractal. That's what reality is you know. It's a fractal that does not end above or below. Infinity. As grand as the connections I can make in this thread, they are small compared to the reality that is God. It's all designed.

If the universe existed, but I could not see it in any way, then I could say it was not created. The fact that I collapse the wave of possibility with consciousness tells me my source. The material reality does not create the collapse, I do. That means it takes a consciousness to produce the collapse of possibility from a state of rest. Watch this video.

If you merely drop the bias, I can help you see. Approach it like a child. This is specifically what Christ said to his disciples when they were arguing over who was the greatest. That's pride. Pride is where the fall happens. Walking with God in love is where the greatest journeys begin.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

You're still taking a huuuuuuuge leap of faith claiming a deity has anything to do with it.

If you really care about where we come from:

No magic required

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Learn to quantum mechanics. I don't claim to be an expert myself...which is why I don't go so far as to say anything about quantum mechanics beyond the fact that a person who has demonstrated himself beyond ignorant in matters of science is probably not knowledgeable enough about the complexities of quantum mechanics to make any statements of certainty on the issue.

Oh, and a 'What the beep do we know?' video? Not going to help your case.

Are you talking about the scientists who observe the reality or me? We are all blind men trying to describe fire. That doesn't stop me from seeing what I can. Maybe your view is better. Share it.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Learn to quantum mechanics. I don't claim to be an expert myself...which is why I don't go so far as to say anything about quantum mechanics beyond the fact that a person who has demonstrated himself beyond ignorant in matters of science is probably not knowledgeable enough about the complexities of quantum mechanics to make any statements of certainty on the issue.

Oh, and a 'What the beep do we know?' video? Not going to help your case.

edit on 25/4/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Last line added.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Your posts is extremely interesting, but I would like to point out a paradox or conundrum.
The concept of God or Creator relative to humans cannot be determined as being sourced from outside of our reality.
The bible, written by humans, religious texts and dogma all originate from humans.
This puts these concepts, written texts and ideas relating to god or creator way down in terms of the scale or the dichotomy you have handed us, by this I mean these ideas are way down stream from the reality of the source that it originates from and cannot be trusted as any indication of how to behave or act within reality.

This may mean that we have no real understanding of the source and we have simply constructed a poor image or interpretation of it, as we are down stream and unable to rise above it in terms of the concepts we use to describe the source, that being a creator or god, Jesus etc.

reply to post by SuperiorEd

Good video. I've seen it. It confirms the connection I make to God.

And this is the fundamental issue: NOTHING in that video can be considered evidence of divine intervention. What you're doing (and have been doing in the other thread too) is stating your PERSONAL BELIEF! You never bother showing objective evidence of the link between nature (light, gravity, etc.) and god(s). Posting "it fits the bible" is complete nonsense as has been mentioned before, simply because you can debunk so much in the bible. It really can't be considered objective evidence.

"God" isn't mentioned once during the entire video, yet you claim it's proof of his/her/its existence, you're taking a HUUUUUUUUUGE leap of faith. Basically, you're falling into the god of the gaps trap once again, or using the argument from ignorance (aka "scientists can't explain that, ergo god did it").

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Except that we aren't all that blind. We've made leaps and strides in the field, but you're really just talking out your backside about these things. I wouldn't say much about geology...except that I have a basic understand of water based sedimentation and some other processes from my rock collecting days. You don't know quite as much as you would need to for your assertions to have any weight. If your statement that quantum mechanics requires a 'first observer' were true then it should me mathematically demonstrable.

Quantum mechanics is not hard to understand, it's hard to discover and prove. The guys with degrees solve the math. The rest is just a description. I've read Dawkins, Hawking, and many others. They are fairly easily read. I don't agree with their implications. Their science is good. The implications can be derived by anyone. I don't think you really even need to go that far. Just look at the evidence for the Exodus. This should be your first basis that Moses lived. Then go back and read the Maxims of PtahHotep to see evidence of Joseph. Then go and read Enoch I and the Corpus Hermeticum to see that Enoch was real. Verify this in Jasher chapter 3. The puzzle all fits together. I think it is funny that, in the last video, Moses and the Hebrews left thousands of sandal prints in Saudi Arabia at Mt. Sinai. Proof is everywhere. Just look.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Learn to quantum mechanics. I don't claim to be an expert myself...which is why I don't go so far as to say anything about quantum mechanics beyond the fact that a person who has demonstrated himself beyond ignorant in matters of science is probably not knowledgeable enough about the complexities of quantum mechanics to make any statements of certainty on the issue.

Oh, and a 'What the beep do we know?' video? Not going to help your case.

edit on 25/4/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Last line added.

I was trying to show you dimensions with the video. The videos above about the Exodus. These are solid evidence of divine intervention.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Good video. I've seen it. It confirms the connection I make to God.

And this is the fundamental issue: NOTHING in that video can be considered evidence of divine intervention. What you're doing (and have been doing in the other thread too) is stating your PERSONAL BELIEF! You never bother showing objective evidence of the link between nature (light, gravity, etc.) and god(s). Posting "it fits the bible" is complete nonsense as has been mentioned before, simply because you can debunk so much in the bible. It really can't be considered objective evidence.

"God" isn't mentioned once during the entire video, yet you claim it's proof of his/her/its existence, you're taking a HUUUUUUUUUGE leap of faith. Basically, you're falling into the god of the gaps trap once again, or using the argument from ignorance (aka "scientists can't explain that, ergo god did it").

It has been my experience that bias blinds. It doesn't matter the subject. I leave the math to the scientists. The implications can be made by anyone who has a reasonable amount of time and intellect.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Except that we aren't all that blind. We've made leaps and strides in the field, but you're really just talking out your backside about these things. I wouldn't say much about geology...except that I have a basic understand of water based sedimentation and some other processes from my rock collecting days. You don't know quite as much as you would need to for your assertions to have any weight. If your statement that quantum mechanics requires a 'first observer' were true then it should me mathematically demonstrable.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


1) Multiple dimensions aren't evidence for god.
2) Sandal prints in the desert aren't proof of god's existence

Even if a guy like Moses existed, that doesn't mean the exodus happened like described in the bible. In fact, we KNOW it's wrong from a historical standpoint...just like the global flood, or people living in whales

While a Moses-like figure may have existed in Transjordan in the mid-late 13th century BCE, archaeology cannot prove or disprove his existence, and the "overwhelming" archaeological evidence of the largely indigenous origins of Israel "leaves no room for an Exodus from Egypt or a 40-year pilgrimage through the Sinai wilderness."

It's a mythical story, FICTION...nothing more, and nothing less. That doesn't mean you can't learn something from it, but claiming it's the truth, when science clearly shows otherwise, is a bit silly.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


You can't just ignore the math and real science, and then make up your own stuff...sadly that's exactly what your'e doing