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Creator or Chance Accident - I will prove this to you!

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posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 06:44 PM
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Really. Not attacking me? Are you sure you read the posts? Did you read the post you just wrote?

"We've already proven" How so?
"I find it laughable." How so?
"...you pretend to be the victim." How so?
"...the content of your claims are DEMONSTRABLY wrong." How so?
"And we've demonstrated how you are wrong." Good for you. Is this a reason to attack someone's character?
"What you're doing is ignoring every single response that 100% debunks your claims."

I have stood my ground on my beliefs. Simply saying something is so does not make it so. Not for me, not for you. I have presented context when others produce attack. This is typical of the Atheist in my experience. If you have provided context that you are happy with, then you are done. Why attack? Does this provide a better context for what you said? Your last few posts are attack postured. Answer the two questions I posed. It should be simple.

If you are unhappy that I didn't prove a creator to you, then I guess you know your viewpoint well. Express it. Leave the bias out of the discussion.

Don't confuse bias with being biased toward your viewpoint. There are no viewpoints that are not biased in one direction or another. Bias against another human is prejudiced and intolerant behavior that does not need a home here or anywhere.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


We've already proven you wrong dozens of times in this thread. And it's a bit laughable that you pretend to be a victim when people are attacking the CONTENT of your claims, not you. I don't know you, you might be a nice guy in real life...but the content of your claims here are DEMONSTRABLY wrong. And we've demonstrated how you are wrong, go back and read the responses. What you're doing is ignoring every single response that 100% debunks your claims.




posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





I have stood my ground on my beliefs. Simply saying something is so does not make it so.


Exactly, you stated a BELIEF!! Not facts, or truths. Nothing wrong with that, but claiming it's facts is beyond dishonest to the readers here.

And you asking for evidence of where you're wrong just goes to show how ignorant you are. I and a lot of others spent a lot of time showing how EVERY SINGLE CLAIM you make is wrong...reread your own thread. You're not seriously asking us to repost everything, are you.

I don't even care what you belief...I care about the people here being dumbed down with pseudo-science and fallacious arguments like you presented over and over again in this thread. All the readers have to do is go back, read the thread, and all my and the others' arguments are always following your posts. You might prefer to ignore them and then go "where's your evidence" even though we presented plenty to prove you wrong...but my guess is most readers on here have the brain capacity to go back and read the rebuttals.



PS: I also think it's hilarious that you ask us "how so?" when I claimed you pretend to be a victim...right after whining about us attacking you. Thanks for making me laugh



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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I missed this one somehow. You said that "Nothing exists till someone sees it." You are referring to the measurement problem. You are correct. Reality is created by consciousness. This is the observer collapsing the wave of probability. An evolutionary standpoint states that the material world creates consciousness. How do you see this as proof against a creator? It seems that your quote tells it like it is.


Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Dear SuperiorEd

A TWO FOOT CUBE, the whole universe and all that is in it one million years from now. Programs with in programs in fact multiple universes where every eventuality is played out. Nothing exists till someone sees it. And all God is, is a computer programmer perhaps one that got a D- at collage.

At the end of the day the joke really is on us. Which ever way you go the joke is on us. As the song says “the game of life is hard to play, your going to loss it any way”

I just love it.



posted on Apr, 20 2011 @ 08:29 PM
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Let me sum up your context: You say I am dishonest, ignorant and then proceed to throw insult into the mix. I read all my posts. I hear no context to your argument for proof in this current post. You said you have stated your case earlier and so you must be happy with your counter arguments. There is nothing more to say. Insult is not context to the topic.

Again, just provide answers of your own as the thread progresses. That's all. No insult is necessary. It only builds ground for the other person to stand against you when they stay on firm ground. The book Verbal Judo is a good resource for you to examine this idea. Speak in the manner in which the other person should be speaking for themselves. I have just demonstrated this for you. Everyone wins when bias and judgment of the person speaking is left out. Stand on the subject, not the object.



Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





I have stood my ground on my beliefs. Simply saying something is so does not make it so.


Exactly, you stated a BELIEF!! Not facts, or truths. Nothing wrong with that, but claiming it's facts is beyond dishonest to the readers here.

And you asking for evidence of where you're wrong just goes to show how ignorant you are. I and a lot of others spent a lot of time showing how EVERY SINGLE CLAIM you make is wrong...reread your own thread. You're not seriously asking us to repost everything, are you.

I don't even care what you belief...I care about the people here being dumbed down with pseudo-science and fallacious arguments like you presented over and over again in this thread. All the readers have to do is go back, read the thread, and all my and the others' arguments are always following your posts. You might prefer to ignore them and then go "where's your evidence" even though we presented plenty to prove you wrong...but my guess is most readers on here have the brain capacity to go back and read the rebuttals.



PS: I also think it's hilarious that you ask us "how so?" when I claimed you pretend to be a victim...right after whining about us attacking you. Thanks for making me laugh



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Really. Not attacking me? Are you sure you read the posts? Did you read the post you just wrote?

I read his post. Can’t you tell the difference between a personal attack and an attack on your claims and arguments?


"We've already proven"

Proving some fact cannot be a personal attack on you, even if it’s a fact you don’t personally like.


"I find it laughable that you pretend to be the victim."

Well, you have pretended to be one, haven’t you? Talking about atheists attacking you ‘like cats on a defenceless bird.’ Anyone is within his rights to find such tearjerking poor-me statements laughable. Or to find them merely contemptible, as I do.


"...the content of your claims are DEMONSTRABLY wrong."

Once again, he is attacking the content of your posts, not you personally.


"And we've demonstrated how you are wrong."

And we have, too. How does proving you wrong become an attack on you?


"What you're doing is ignoring every single response that 100% debunks your claims."

This is a correct description of your behaviour on every single thread you participate in on ATS – every one I have seen, certainly. To describe your behaviour correctly is not a personal attack, it is a justified observation.

Perhaps you are uncertain what a personal attack really is. Let me show you:


...others produce attack. This is typical of the Atheist in my experience.

That is a personal attack on ‘the Atheist’. Every atheist is entitled to interpret it as a slur on his or her character.


Why attack?

On ATS, we call it ‘denying ignorance’. As the mods never tire of repeating, ‘attack the post, not the poster.’ Of course, if the same faults are found in every post by a member, then attacking the post starts to sound a bit like attacking the poster. But if the poster will not change his ways, acknowledge facts and watertight arguments when they are presented, and merely ignores, dismisses or wilfully misunderstands them, then it is clear that the problem lies ultimately with the poster, not the posts.

Frankly, SuperiorEd, I no longer bother with your threads and posts much, because I find them neither rational nor well-informed. There’s an implied personal attack, if you like; sadly, it happens to be my perception, and every time I have an exchange of words with you it is reinforced. You are here, it seems to me, to feed certain emotional needs of your own, not really to learn or discuss anything. Your ears are shut, your jaws are open wide. You are here to preach.

These will probably be the last words I ever address to you. I am always keen to learn more about life and the world I live in, but you have nothing to teach anyone, except perhaps by way of cautionary example.


edit on 21/4/11 by Astyanax because: of divers straits. And shifts.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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.

I read your reply here toward God and Christians and I identify with it. I spent many years of my life in this state of vehemence toward God. On the surface, God's wrath seems paradoxical to our minds. We only want the good and not the ugly from life. Our constant question is, "Why does God demand our actions fit His law?" Why didn't He just make us perfect, or less imperfect? On the surface, it seems that our morality can rise above God somehow. We understand that there is a law that answers our actions. Most of us understand this concept of reaping and sowing. On the other hand, it seems God steps in around those laws and forces us into situations that cause us to stumble; send plagues; blinds our eyes; puts stumbling blocks in our way. For me, it was a struggle understanding these things when I was younger and full of my own personal pride.

As the years have progressed, I realize the significance of God's actions. First, I realize that nothing can be lost in this life that isn't given to us by God. I also realize that walking with God allows me to gain the whole world. I realize that walking with God, not against, allows a proper relationship to Him and the world he created. I can verify His love by the good that comes from this trial of life.

If you imagine in your mind that this life is what matters to your eternity, then you will cling to it as a possession, allowing the possession to rule your every thought. If you image than this brief moment in an eternity of moments is the only thing that you every experience, you will do everything possible to hold it tightly and squeeze every last drop of pleasure from it possible. Then, when you experience anything that takes the moment form you, you rage against God that it's not fare. You puff up your pride and pretend that you had anything to do with its creation or provisions.

Can you imagine a baby cursing its mother because the birth process was painful and unpleasant compared to the warm environment of the womb? The Earth is a womb of sorts and you body a placenta. You develop here in this brief moment of development as an education. Learning is sometimes difficult. The teacher can seem tough at times. There are some kids in class that pay attention and behave. There are others that arrogantly defy the teacher and then suffer the consequences. Typically, these students claim they have been treated unfairly, not realizing that the entire process was for their benefit. Character development requires the process to push the student off his equilibrium to change momentum and direction. It takes this counter motion to find truth. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

The laws of motion are this and nothing more.

The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. God is the unbalanced force in our lives, moving us in directions that often seem unreasonable.

God created these laws of motion. I assume he knows how they can move me to be a better person in the next life to come. I will not resist His efforts to teach me what I need to know. It's His kingdom, not mine. I am only the beneficiary given the inheritance. Walking with God, not against, is the correct movement along the various paths in our journey through life. Resisting the unbalanced force only causes pain. Either way, the education will take place.






Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by graphuto
 


Hmmm... Love your neighbor as yourself. People hurt, minds rotted, check.

Don't bear false witness. People hurt, minds rotted, check!

I gotcha bro, your superior logic wins out!

Precept is cheap.

Action is where the money is.

The history of religion (and somewhat notably the two religions from which those precepts are drawn) is glutted to the point of doleful rupture with hurt people and rotted minds. The minds were the ones that preached loving their neighbour while persecuting him unmercifully.

The hurt people were, of course, the neighbours.

And that is only the beginning.

Religion not only rots minds. It stunts them. It prevents us from seeing the world as it is with a minimum of preconception; it forbids us from finding out the truth of things as they are presented to our senses by nature. It demands instead that we believe another, false ‘truth’ based on no evidence but blackmail: believe or it will be the worse for you.

That’s not just intellectually stultifying; it’s morally retarded. The fastidious may say corrupt. I say outrageous. Because: for pity’s sake, massa, yaas yaas shoor I’ll agree to anything if you hang me over da’ griddle. And I’ll do my best to keep my promise, too, because who wants to spend the rest of forever in a cage with the Fisherman?

But.

What’s it worth – seriously? No, I mean – seriously? To this God of yours? Worshippers terrified into good behaviour for terror of the worm that dieth not and the fire that is unquenched? This kind of bullying is worth something? To the Omnipotent Omniscient Omnipresent Waterintonwineturning Letherelightbeing Almighty God this abject grovelling obedience – no, where’s that old word from the Book of Common Prayer – obeisance has value in the sight of His Gloriousness? Really?

Path. Et. Ic.

*


Do you get what I’m after here, graphuto, you wonderful old logician you? Are you – as Keef Steptoe would say – catching my drift? Morality under coercion corrupts the coercer. Threatening human beings with damnation makes a slimeball out of God.

That
is where those precious precepts, inscribed under divine Sanction, lead you: to the last chapters of the Book of Job, or that moment on Sinai when He pompously moons His obeisant prophet. Remember that bit?

*


And then we come to its effect on the Creation. Allow me a gentle, almostundermybreath

O M F G ! ! !


Have you seen what this fewmet-pudding of faith does to people who eat it? Stupid question: out of the eater came forth meat, not wisdom. So I’ll tell you, young Samson of the Academy. It turns them into slaves. Yes. In their minds. Where the chains are invisible but adamant.

Yet they kiss those chains, like the Punjabi tribesman kissed the sahib’s blade back in the old, bad days. Why?

This is why:


'I prayed to God last night to help me, and he answered me. I know what to do now.’


That, O Graf Eu Toh, is a licence to do anything.

And they did.

People hurt? Check.

Minds rotted? Check.

And plenty more besides, all brought to us courtesy of good old bloodsuckin’ parasite-metameme Religion.


edit on 20/4/11 by Astyanax because: it did.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





There are others that arrogantly defy the teacher and then suffer the consequences.


By that logic you're defying unicorns...because I assume you don't believe in them. How can you defy something that has ZERO objective evidence supporting his/her/its existence? Simple answer: You can't!



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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It would be better stated that there is no objective evidence that God doesn't exist. I would be eager for you to outline them with science. The claims made by the Bible are backed by a preponderance of evidence. I would restate your last comment about objective evidence and say objective fact. All facts are based on faith when talking about a dynamic, ever-changing universe. The evidence is in favor of the Bible, on a multitude of levels. All is faith, even with scientific theory. Theory changes as often as the substance it observes.

The Bible is a mirror reflecting all aspects of our world, good and bad. If you look straight into the mirror with bias, you will only see your own distorted reflection. If you tip the mirror out to the world and dare to use it to look from a different perspective, you start to see the world clearly from the reflection. Bias against God keeps the mirror focused clearly on your own character so it does little good to even look. Remove the bias and the smudges from your own fallen nature will reveal a different picture. Once you begin to chisle the hard edges form your own character, the image begins to take shape. God is right there in the image with us. This is true for anyone who dares to look. Again, you can't see the ocean if all you look at is the surface and waves. The ocean is under the surface and waves.



Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





There are others that arrogantly defy the teacher and then suffer the consequences.


By that logic you're defying unicorns...because I assume you don't believe in them. How can you defy something that has ZERO objective evidence supporting his/her/its existence? Simple answer: You can't!


edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Theory changes as often as the substance it observes.


Fine...since you consider this logical:

If you're ever in NYC, climb the empire state building...and then jump off it. Maybe, just maybe (according to your "logic") you won't fall dozens of stories and end up as a bloody splatter on the pavement bellow. Or do you believe in Newton's theory of gravitation? We have just as much evidence for evolution as we have for gravity


Or should we change the theory of gravitation to "intelligent falling" too?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:25 PM
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This is one very good example of objective evidence. You reap what you sow in life. This is the reaction to your actions, governed by law. As a Christian, I use the reflection of the Bible to examine the laws as closely as possible to avoid breaking them. This is what determines the quality of life that all people experience. Atheists experience the same benefits that a Christian gains from life if they follow the law. The law negates free will when making choices in life. All choices you make will reflect a counter-action from the law. God has preselected outcomes for every eventuality. Again, I have objective evidence through experience to qualify this as truth. The only free will you have in this world is to believe God and walk with Him in joy, or walk away from Him in pride. Once you walk alone, you will toil for your existence. Read the verses below. If you are only looking at the surface and waves of this image (like the ocean), you will only see a story with words. Examine the depths of what it says, and you see clearly. This is one example where I can lift the veil briefly, for you, so you can catch a glimpse through your bias. Imagine your clarity when you remove the bias and you see the entire world as it really is. Don't buy into the lies of the material world. God forgives.

Genesis 3

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





Theory changes as often as the substance it observes.


Fine...since you consider this logical:

If you're ever in NYC, climb the empire state building...and then jump off it. Maybe, just maybe (according to your "logic") you won't fall dozens of stories and end up as a bloody splatter on the pavement bellow. Or do you believe in Newton's theory of gravitation? We have just as much evidence for evolution as we have for gravity


Or should we change the theory of gravitation to "intelligent falling" too?



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


What has that to do with anything I just typed? All you're doing once again is preach your personal belief instead of actually discussing



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Your words below:

"Fine...since you consider this logical:

If you're ever in NYC, climb the empire state building...and then jump off it. Maybe, just maybe (according to your "logic") you won't fall dozens of stories and end up as a bloody splatter on the pavement bellow. Or do you believe in Newton's theory of gravitation? We have just as much evidence for evolution as we have for gravity

Or should we change the theory of gravitation to "intelligent falling" too?"

The quote above is what you said.

I pointed out that this is reaping and sowing. It is a choice that is evident to all who look. We have faith in this evidence so we form a theory that calls it gravity. In the Bible, it is called law. Science calls its theory of this law as well. The point is, God stated it in its simplest form with no error. All of what the Bible claims is in this simple form for understanding.

The entire Bible is one big parable to instruct and guide. Along the way, it claims individuals as important to the overall story, assigns them significance to our minds to help assist beliefs, and then does the unthinkable. It backs up what it says by telling future events in great detail. Then it associates these past meanings with the future events it claims will happen, to the letter. Every 2000 years, there is a new revelation. Each generation has a patriarch. It all points to our ultimate salvation from the story of life. Each generation experiences similar events in a cyclical movement to culmination. We are currently at the event horizon of what is coming in the next 2000 year cycle.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


What has that to do with anything I just typed? All you're doing once again is preach your personal belief instead of actually discussing

edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I hope you realize the bible is packed with stuff that is demonstrably wrong...stuff that goes completely against scientific facts

LINK

Saying it's flawless and the definite word of god (without providing the slightest bit of evidence supporting that claim) is beyond laughable


Also, once again...what does any of that have to do with what I typed? I didn't mention the bible once, yet you go on with some giant praise monologue about it

edit on 21-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 07:12 PM
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You say the stuff is demonstrably wrong. How so? What stuff? Which scientific facts are those again that I am wrong on? Be specific. Don't just call the error without context. Form a thought. Meditate. Research. Consult Google. Simply making a blanket statement without making the bed is just messy and not productive. I am very specific in my matching of science to metaphysics. Lots of detail. Long posts. Content. Context. I restate what you say and the speak in the manner in which you should be thinking for yourself. This is speaking from context and not bias.


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I hope you realize the bible is packed with stuff that is demonstrably wrong...stuff that goes completely against scientific facts

LINK

Saying it's flawless and the definite word of god (without providing the slightest bit of evidence supporting that claim) is beyond laughable


Also, once again...what does any of that have to do with what I typed? I didn't mention the bible once, yet you go on with some giant praise monologue about it

edit on 21-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 07:22 PM
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You did provide a link so I'll speak to just one of the points in the link. If you have a favorite part of the link you would like to hear me relate, let me know. I can't answer the entire thing in one post so I'll go first.

"Genesis, the first book of the Bible, makes a scientific error by describing the moon as a light. In Genesis, God is depicted as creating two lights for the sky: the greater light is the sun and the lesser light is the moon. This contradicts what we know from science, though, because the moon is not a light like the sun. The moon only reflects..."

The sun is not a light by this definition either. It produces the light and then what you see is reflected back to you in visible wavelength. Calling it a light is inaccurate if we get technical. A light bulb is not the light. It is the bulb. The sun is not the light, it is the bulb. The moon is a reflector of light. The quote assumes that Genesis 1:16 is calling the moon and the sun the light. This verse does not call the sun and the moon by name. You assume this. The context of the verse is the governing of the light itself, not the producer or reflector of the light. God is careful like this. Read it for all it's worth. You won't trap God. Genesis 37:9 is the first mention of the moon. This is the process of light and illumination of day and night.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


I hope you realize the bible is packed with stuff that is demonstrably wrong...stuff that goes completely against scientific facts

LINK

Saying it's flawless and the definite word of god (without providing the slightest bit of evidence supporting that claim) is beyond laughable


Also, once again...what does any of that have to do with what I typed? I didn't mention the bible once, yet you go on with some giant praise monologue about it

edit on 21-4-2011 by MrXYZ because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The sun is not a light by this definition either. It produces the light and then what you see is reflected back to you in visible wavelength.


Reflected from what?

The light coming from the sun ORIGINATES in the sun, it isn't "reflected back". How can you claim such a bunch of nonsense???



The sun is not the light, it is the bulb.


And a bulb doesn't reflect light either


Let's look at Genesis, shall we?




God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.



Two great lights...clearly the sun and the moon. But the moon isn't a light




Genesis 37:9 is the first mention of the moon.


And you confirm this.

But the moon clearly ISN'T a light


There's other nonsense in the bible. Like the claim that all animals are herbivores:



Genesis 1:30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


And of course the claim that homo sapiens popped up in its current form is complete nonsense too



Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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Think it through. Light, were it visible, would be seen between you and everything else. All you would see is a glow everywhere. Light is not seen between you and your monitor because the wavelength of light does not refract on air. Light must refract from substance to be seen. Fog is seen as a glow in the air because the light reflects from the water molecules, which are large enough to refract the light. Light is not seen, it is sensed in wavelength when it reflects into the narrow frequency that you can see.

Light is not seen. Wavelengths of frequency is seen. If you stand on the shore and look at the ocean, you see the surface and waves. The same with light. The ocean is what is below the waves and contains much more than what is seen. Same with light. You only see the effects of light interacting with substance. The sun is not light. It produces light and much more. It is the giant projector that produces what it reveals from the ocean of electromagnetic wavelength it produces. If you could see light, you would be seeing it in all wavelengths. You see a fraction from what it reveals in reflection.

The moon is the light reflector that governs the night. Exactly what is said. God states the process of governing. You are thinking at the surface of things. See into the depths with your mind. Drop the bias against God and try to dig deep.

My original comment: "The sun is not a light by this definition either. It produces the light and then what you see is reflected back to you in visible wavelength."

The electromagnetic wavelength is emitted from the sun, then reflects on substance. You see the narrow band of spectrum that is refracted. Go back and read the quote above.

Bias will keep you from learning if you keep living by your five senses. Develop equanimity. Place your intellect above your emotion. Here's my guide to doing this. LINK



Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The sun is not a light by this definition either. It produces the light and then what you see is reflected back to you in visible wavelength.


Reflected from what?

The light coming from the sun ORIGINATES in the sun, it isn't "reflected back". How can you claim such a bunch of nonsense???



The sun is not the light, it is the bulb.


And a bulb doesn't reflect light either


Let's look at Genesis, shall we?




God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.



Two great lights...clearly the sun and the moon. But the moon isn't a light




Genesis 37:9 is the first mention of the moon.


And you confirm this.

But the moon clearly ISN'T a light


There's other nonsense in the bible. Like the claim that all animals are herbivores:



Genesis 1:30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


And of course the claim that homo sapiens popped up in its current form is complete nonsense too



Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.






posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:24 PM
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I normally don't cut and paste but this time I save time.

"Man was authorised in Genesis 1:29 to eat anything from the plant kingdom. A vegetarian diet only is mentioned, despite the earlier reference to livestock. We can infer, therefore, that sheep, cows, etc., were not originally given for meat-but for milk and other dairy products, wool, and to assist in tilling the ground. Of course, the livestock can have an anticipated use of supplying meat (after the Flood, Genesis 9:3) and also of supplying blood sacrifices in worship (after the Fall, inferred from Genesis 3:21).

A related issue raised in Genesis 1:30 concerns the diet of the nephesh animals. They also were given “every green plant” to eat, so a vegetarian diet was also for them. As far as getting food was concerned, predation, blood-shedding and death were not part of the original creation order. This was the case for both man and animals (for a fuller discussion, see Stambaugh, 1991). We find it difficult to reconstruct in our minds the situation that then existed. Today, the carnivorous animals seem to be such an important part of the food chain that we cannot imagine them to have lived in any other way." LINK


Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




Genesis 1:30: And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.


And of course the claim that homo sapiens popped up in its current form is complete nonsense too



Genesis 1:27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.






posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 09:40 PM
link   
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 





The electromagnetic wavelength is emitted from the sun, then reflects on substance.


Still doesn't make the reflector a "light" as the bible claims


Either way...



A related issue raised in Genesis 1:30 concerns the diet of the nephesh animals. They also were given “every green plant” to eat, so a vegetarian diet was also for them. As far as getting food was concerned, predation, blood-shedding and death were not part of the original creation order. This was the case for both man and animals (for a fuller discussion, see Stambaugh, 1991). We find it difficult to reconstruct in our minds the situation that then existed. Today, the carnivorous animals seem to be such an important part of the food chain that we cannot imagine them to have lived in any other way."


Complete and utter nonsense...there's plenty of animals that require meet to survive.


Try feed a shark grass...good luck


And there's the entire human "made from dust" and just popping up in their current form flaw that's clearly wrong


Like I've mentioned before, the bible is only proof of what people believed 2,000 years ago.

Tell me, how come the bible claims plagues are an act of god...when we now know that's complete nonsense?
Why does it continue to talk about "2 of every kind" when they talk about Noah's flood when that's clearly impossible considering ship construction back then (and maybe even today)?
Why does it claim a global flood when we KNOW that never happened?
Why did Mary get pregnant without sex...when we know that's nonsense too?
Why do the kings from the east take a comet for a sign of go when we now know that's hogwash?

I tell you why! Because they had a limited knowledge of nature and science compared to us today. That's not an accusation, it's a FACT. Not a single thing has been proven to be caused by divine intervention, ZERO objective evidence (and no, the bible isn't objective evidence). And there's tons of stuff we still don't understand, but claiming it's magic is silly



posted on Apr, 21 2011 @ 10:25 PM
link   
Again, your bias blinds. Every green plant comes from photosynthesis (again from light) and then provides the root of the food chain for ALL life on earth. The key word is Earth. Sharks are not a beast of the earth (soil), but the sea. When speaking of earth, he is again speaking of what comes from the soil. Even if we take my former post as incorrect, plants are the key to all life in the food chain of land dwellers. Then we see the divine beings in chapter 6 messing with the seed of man. In Enoch 1, they also mess with the seed of animals.

I don't want to make light of this website, but the UFO thing receives a warm welcome as compared to something you can actually see like the Bible. It shouldn't be a stretch to see the significance and draw a comparison. We are not informed about the principalities and powers that are at work behind the veil of our reality. We are told only that they are our adversaries and that we will eventually rid the universe of their presence. The Bible even speaks to this as our destiny and what we were created to accomplish. The universe is our inheritance. Deuteronomy 4:19

Do they have a motive to mess with what God created?

"To every animal of the earth, and to every bird of the sky, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food," and it was so.



Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by SuperiorEd
 




A related issue raised in Genesis 1:30 concerns the diet of the nephesh animals. They also were given “every green plant” to eat, so a vegetarian diet was also for them. As far as getting food was concerned, predation, blood-shedding and death were not part of the original creation order. This was the case for both man and animals (for a fuller discussion, see Stambaugh, 1991). We find it difficult to reconstruct in our minds the situation that then existed. Today, the carnivorous animals seem to be such an important part of the food chain that we cannot imagine them to have lived in any other way."


Complete and utter nonsense...there's plenty of animals that require meet to survive.


Try feed a shark grass...good luck


And there's the entire human "made from dust" and just popping up in their current form flaw that's clearly wrong


Like I've mentioned before, the bible is only proof of what people believed 2,000 years ago.

Tell me, how come the bible claims plagues are an act of god...when we now know that's complete nonsense?
Why does it continue to talk about "2 of every kind" when they talk about Noah's flood when that's clearly impossible considering ship construction back then (and maybe even today)?
Why does it claim a global flood when we KNOW that never happened?
Why did Mary get pregnant without sex...when we know that's nonsense too?
Why do the kings from the east take a comet for a sign of go when we now know that's hogwash?

I tell you why! Because they had a limited knowledge of nature and science compared to us today. That's not an accusation, it's a FACT. Not a single thing has been proven to be caused by divine intervention, ZERO objective evidence (and no, the bible isn't objective evidence). And there's tons of stuff we still don't understand, but claiming it's magic is silly

edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-4-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)



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