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Be gay all you want, just hush up about it!

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posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by darrylss
you Americans are soo narrow minded... lol

LOVE from CANADA...
Hear dat, for real...Yo! I feels you for a shorty. So stacked. Fine. fa real... ain't no chickenhead. If dats they way it is...I give you a shout out! PEACE




posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by PurpleSun
If I ever want a Caucasian Pride day, or a Heterosexual Pride parade, I'd be labeled bigot, racist and everything else. Someone very close to me that works for the Federal Government told me that in my lifetime, the most discriminated person will be a straight, white male with how things will be shaping in the future. I cannot wait until 2050 when the "hispanics" are the majority race and then I can finally start using all the minority rights!!!


That's because every day is Caucasian Pride day. In case you haven't noticed white christian males specifically hold most of the wealth in the world, hold most of the powerful positions in government and business, not to mention access to the best jobs, and throughout history have had most of the best rights and defenses under various countries constitutions (you probably didn't notice but the same rights were not always afforded to gays, women, racial minorities, etc.). The problem with you people is that you perceive that anytime a minority gets something, that these people are taking something away from you, as if you don't have enough money, representation, stuff in the world already. For example, practically all the stations on TV are geared towards the white heterosexual males. The second that gay people get a channel devoted to their own programming, some people will rant and rave that gay people are now "throwing it in everyone's faces". Another example, if things were really equal than there would be 50% women in the congress and senate, but as it stands now it's less than 20% in the senate, and slightly higher in the congress, if it were ever equal (50-50) than most of the males would be crying about how unfair it is, and how "feminized" the government has become, even though half of the population is female, if things were really equal, than half of our representatives should also be female. You see your perception is different from what if reality. You don't look around and see all the advantages that white christian males currently enjoy, like the majority of money, wealth and power in the world, instead you look around and see that gay people have a parade once a year and automatically assume that white people are discriminated again. In case you don't know, discrimination, oppression to be more specific also has an institutional, economic and a systemic violent nature attached to it. For example:


To understand the connection among the oppressions, we must examine their common elements. The first is a defined norm, a standard of rightness and often righteousness wherein all others are judged in relation to it. This norm must be backed up with institutional power, economic power, and both institutional and individual violence. It is the combination of these three elements that makes complete power and control possible. In the United States, that norm is male, white, heterosexual, Christian, temporarily able-bodied, youthful, and has access to wealth and resources. It is important to remember that an established norm does not necessarily represent a majority in terms of numbers; it represents those who have ability to exert power and control over others.

It is also important to remember that this group has to have institutional power. For instance, I often hear people say that they know people of color in this country who are racist. This is confusing racism with bigotry or prejudice or hatred. People of color simply do not have institutional power to back up their hatred or bigotry or prejudice and therefore cannot be deemed racist. In the same way, women do not have the power to institutionalize their prejudices against men, so there is no such thing as “reverse sexism.” How do we know this? We simply have to take a look at the representation of women and people of color in our institutions. Take, for example, the U.S. Congress. What percentage of its members are people of color or women? Or look at the criminal justice system which carries out the laws the white males who predominate in Congress create: how many in that system are people of color? And then when we look at the percentage of each race that is incarcerated, that is affected by these laws, we see that a disproportionate number are people of color. We see the same lack of representation in financial institutions, in the leadership of churches and synagogues, in the military.

Please Read as there is much more here:
ericstoller.com...

Please, before you say such ignorant things such as "white people will soon be the most discriminated against" check your FACTS first. The evidence just doesn't bear this out.

(Another blog post on this issue here)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by hapablab
Bull, there has been a parade in Chicago for as long as I can remember way before the marriage issue, I would accept the parade if they wouldnt wear chaps with the ass cheeks hanging out and dry humping each other on a float.


What do you mean long before the marriage issue, gays were never allowed to be married. As for the parades, they draw a certain type of person in general, and people come from all over the region to be in them, the vast majority of gay people do not ride on the back of a fire-trucks with lipstick and ass-less chaps.

It would be like me acting as if all Republicans behave like Sarah Palin supporters just because I saw a Sarah Pain rally that people were acting silly at from my perspective. It's a minority within a minority, and no harm is coming from it. People know in advance when they are going to happen, it's a single day out of the year anyway..



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:45 PM
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Totally agree with OPs analysis, it should not be a big thing - certainly not something you should be shouting from the rooftop.

In the 80s, gays were portrayed on the TV and media as a certain stereotype and while some barriers have come down, then some still remain. The stereotype of the gay is still a choreographer or artist, showbiz performer - not a builder who is happily cohabiting with their other half. The flamboyant image of the pride march plays into the stereotype of the gay and may actually strengthen the stereotype and work against the acceptance.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by DantesPeak
 


"So how about the heterosexual people hush up about homosexuals since it's none of their business? '

Maybe because "gay life styles" impact greatly on heterosexual life including health issues and social behavioral issues


signature:



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 
Sure. I would be willing to bet a dollar that most gay people have no interest in marriage. The two gay people that I have very long time aquaintance with are nearing 50 years old and still plow through relationships like they're in thier 20's.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by jbmitch
 


Hello just wondering how do homosexuals have any effect on heterosexuals health?


Could you elaborate on that one please?



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by OverSword
reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 
Sure. I would be willing to bet a dollar that most gay people have no interest in marriage. The two gay people that I have very long time aquaintance with are nearing 50 years old and still plow through relationships like they're in thier 20's.



This is not an excuse to deny them of this right, though.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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This thread needs to END now. No one is going to convince the other side of their argument.

There's too much hypocrisy and ignorance flying around on both sides.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Drezden
 


Might as well close this whole website down too then eh? That is how most threads here seem to go

edit on Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:33 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Drezden
 


Might as well close this whole website down too then eh? That is how most threads here seem to go

edit on Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:33 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Not quite.. there seems to be a little more respect for each other in other threads.

Granted.. I haven't been around that long either, so perhaps you're right.
edit on 3/23/2011 by Drezden because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


I was about to say the same thing TKDRL, finally an agreement on ATS.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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homosexuality threads should be removed from this website, this is fixing nothing.

Too many uneducated bible thumpers here. Hitler should of hated the Christians, thats a revolution I can get behind

Its sad ATS is supportive of racism and bronze age beliefs.

edit on 23-3-2011 by Quasar_La-Zar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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I'm here and I'm Queer! I read a few pages of this thread and most of it is just plain rhetoric. Other posters have claimed in other threads what I am about to say.

Straights shove their lifestyle down gay peoples throats though many modicums. Media, PDA everywhere, by the water cooler, etc., etc.

Fact is, gay people should have every right that a straight person has PERIOD. If they kiss in public, so what. I'm certainly not going to tell you what I do in bed and quite frankly, I don't want to hear about anyone's sexual deeds regardless of orientation. It is everybody's responsibility to act civil and mature.

Overt PDA is distracting no matter where you are or what is doing it. The bedroom doors should be closed.

But I should and demand to walk hand in hand with the person whom is my partner in public.
Anyone's aversion to to gay people is the straight persons problem. Get over it and move on.

One more thing. Why do parents not want their children educated on homosexuality? They are inevitably going to run into it. Why not explain to the young ones the differences and that it is a fact that homosexuality is normal in almost all mammals?

You can run, but you can not hide. Gay people will always exist. Get over it.

Have a good day!



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Drezden
This thread needs to END now. No one is going to convince the other side of their argument.

There's too much hypocrisy and ignorance flying around on both sides.


On both sides? Umm...I think that's a false equivalency...sure there's ignorance in any major debate, However, only one side in particular is trying to deny whole entire groups of people constitutional rights based on the fact that they are different...But I will agree that these threads don't serve much purpose other than allowing some people to gay-bash with impunity, so yes, they probably do need to end.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by meeneecat

Originally posted by Drezden
This thread needs to END now. No one is going to convince the other side of their argument.

There's too much hypocrisy and ignorance flying around on both sides.


On both sides? Umm...I think that's a false equivalency...sure there's ignorance in any major debate, However, only one side in particular is trying to deny whole entire groups of people constitutional rights based on the fact that they are different...But I will agree that these threads don't serve much purpose other than allowing some people to gay-bash with impunity, so yes, they probably do need to end.


I only said "both sides" to keep the ignorant people from getting angry at me. Why should I even gloss over it. Might as well be honest. Gay people never disrespect and hate on straight people the way they are treated here.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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The gay issue does not affect my life at all.

I dont care...too much in life to worry about.

Only affects me me when I do a google image search for "package" or "rod" etc,etc.

Worry about death,disease,finance,your family.

not about what lind of sex acts "gross you out" or what some religious zealot thinks.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


Spartan, you and I are undoubtedly allies in the fight for freedom, and there is little I can find to disagree with your analysis. It just doesn't matter who a person is having sex with, the point is that whomever a person has sex with, they are still a person, and as such they are endowed with certain unalienable rights and these rights are not special rights granted to them by governments because of their sexual proclivities, they are the same rights as anyone else has.


Exactly right, Jean Paul Zodeaux, exactly right indeed.

Only people who have had their rights denied have any concept of not denying others theirs.

In Government, or it used to be, homosexuality used to be a no-go for a background check.

Other countries Government's would blackmail people to spy for them because it was hidden knowledge.

This was/is our own people being blackmailed into spying just for being homosexual and the threat of being "outed".

It still happens in some far off regions of the world where homosexuality is seen as normal.

Yet those countries know how repressed Americans are in their sexual proclivities.

When it comes to sex, heterosexual, or homosexual, America is represssed as Hell.

The Multi-Orgasmic Man: Sexual Secrets Every Man Should Know (Paperback)



There is no Amazon review of this book but it is dead on this particular topic about sexual repression.

According to the Multi-Orgamic Man the East is more open then the West when it comes to sex.

In every single way, and this is a large part of why women fake orgasms, and why homosexual men are beaten.

It has little to nothing to do with sex, it has more to do with ignoring their fellow partners, and through this denial of self with pleasure.

On top of this the Bible is misinterpreted and or ignorantly taught completely about sexuality.

Within the pages of the Bible "God" says "be fruitful and multiply" which is an order to increase populace.

It is in actuality about procreation towards maintaining and raising a populace level.

Instead of about recreational sex and enjoying a penis and or vagina.

So many, and I mean many people, misinterpret this as going to Hell for sinful ways.

I took Greek during high school where I was homeschooled and it is the content, context, and intent that is often missed.

Far too people actually bother to read the Bible, let alone Government mandates, laws, or bills.

They instead rely on a pastor or politicians to tell them what to think.

Instead of actually thinking for themselves or mimic the mindset of the group which is quite ignorant in fact.

Fear of being seen as different if the exact reason for that against the mob mentality.

Peer pressure to me is complete ignorance.

I was taught to stand for my beliefs no matter what anyone else thought.

The Tao Of Spycraft: Intelligence Theory And Practice In Traditional China




Amazon Review :

In The Tao of Spycraft, for the first time anywhere Ralph Sawyer unfolds the long and venerable tradition of spycraft and intelligence work in traditional China, revealing a vast array of theoretical materials and astounding historical developments.

Encompassing extensive translations of relevant portions of theoretical military manuals previously unknown in the West (such as the T'ai-pai Yin-ching, Hu-ling Ching, and Ping-fa Pai-yen), the book spans centuries to trace the development and expansion of agent concepts, insertion and control methods, recruitment, and covert practices such as assassination, subversion, and sexual entrapment and exploitation, going on to explore counter-intelligence and all aspects of military intelligence, including objectives, analysis and interpretation.

But The Tao of Spycraft is more than an examination of military tactics, it also provides a thorough overview of the history of spies in China, emphasizing their early development, ruthless employment, and dramatic success in subverting famous generals, dooming states to extinction, and facilitating the rise of the first imperial dynasty known as the Ch'in.

The cases discussed-particularly those exploiting women and sex-not only became part of China's general mindset over the ages, but coupled with the theoretical writings remain the basis for the study and teaching of contemporary spycraft methods and practices as the PRC trains and aggressively deploys thousands of agents throughout the world, including the United States.


The Tao of Spycraft speaks at length as well about sexual repression of the West and that the East takes advantage of this very fact, to the detriment of National Security at times, and we should find fault with this logic, not only the fact that this is used, but that any American citizens should be repressed enough to keep silent as to their sexuality to the point where it could be used as leverage to make them betray their own citizens and country.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
While you have taken both the left and the right to task in regards to this issue of homosexuality, I was compelled by your labeling of the "religious right". Whether religious zealots are right wing or left wing matters not, the religious zealot will find excuses to thump their Bible over your head every chance they get.


Of course.

I only pointed to the "religious right" to expand upon the "non-religious left" as a counterpoint.

I see both sides of most conflicts as ignorant because they see an enemy or adversary where none exists.

As I mentioned before there are no sides if no one is pointing a finger first.

Who cares if someone is religious?

Who cares if someone is anti-religious?

Who cares if someone is heterosexual?

Who cares if someone is homosexual?

Only those too busy minding other people's business or waving their business in other people's faces.

Both sides are stupid, ignorant, and need to grow the Hell up.

Sorry, that is how I feel, and I would have marched with Martin Luther King Jr.

I will not however march for a rainbow coalition because society needs to grow up in general.

On top of this I will speak about it but I am not fighting someone else's fight for them.

I will speak out against atrocities but I have bigger things to fight like corruption in Government.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I am Catholic, and for those who are Catholic I assume they understand what this means. However, there are plenty of religious zealots who are not Catholic who have no idea what this means. So, throughout my life, and in fact just yesterday, I encounter "Christians" who feel compelled to lecture me on the importance of accepting Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I do my best to show compassion and a degree of tolerance to these people and will attempt to somehow acknowledge their "concerns" while simultaneous doing my best to direct the conversation elsewhere.


When I hear Catholicism mentioned I think of silencing of people's rights.

When I hear Catholicism mentioned I think of the Spanish Inquisition and religious murder.

When I hear Catholicism mentioned I think of pedophile priests.

Christians in general, are bigoted, ignorant, and intolerant because they think they're right and you're wrong.

While certainly, Jean Paul Zodeaux, you are one of the few exceptions, like ProtoplasmicTraveler, far too many Catholics do not practice what they preach, they instead limit people in general, while practicing worse sexual proclivities behind closed cloisters.

I am Christin non-denominational and I will not go into a church unless I have to.

Something about groups of people in small buildings makes ignorance rise to a head.

I as well explore other religions throughout my research into world catalysts in conspiracies.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I suppose, similar to the O.P., I am fine with Christians being Christians, I just wish they would hush up about it, but similar to yourself, I am a staunch advocate of free speech, as well as the freedom to worship according to the dictate of your own conscience. So, it is understandable why some Christians feel compelled to preach, and preach, and preach, all the while making stupid assumptions about whom they are preaching to, while they continue to preach and preach and preach.


I am with you there, Jean Paul Zodeaux, everyone needs to hush up and grow up.

Freedom of Speech is not free however and should be fought for without violence.

Logicial discussions, debates, and sharing ideas instead of casting the first stone.

Hypocrites one and all.

Jesus may have died for our sins but he did not die to condemn people to Hell against their will.

Leverage, it is spiritual leverage, forcing someone to your or my viewpoint with a threat of eternal damnation.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
At some point, I get tired of this, and being that I too have the right to free speech and to worship according to the dictates of my own conscience, I make clear to the person preaching the New Testament to me that I am Catholic. Most of the time, just simply announcing my Catholicism is a point that gets lost on most, and I have to push the point a little further, and that point is that as a Catholic, I was Confirmed. The Confirmation process in Catholicism is a sacred and revered ritual of "accepting Jesus Christ in their heart", but for too many Christians, being Catholic means I am not "really" Christian. If this is the road they go down, at some point I begin going down the road of the Catholic Church being the "one true church". I actually do not buy that the Catholic Church is the "one true church" and I personally think that there is room for as many denominations as feel justified, and also tend to personally believe that a "church" in terms of a formal institution is not at all necessary in order to worship, and that our bodies are our temples, but when I am being bullied by Bible thumper's who are comfortable with lecturing me about my religious "failures", I tend to bully back.


I will not debate you on Catholicism due to my respect for you.

My previous statements about it were not directed at you.

I hope you know.

Anyone thumping a book over two-thousand years old needs to take their blinders off.

In order to see that this is not two-thousand years ago and society changes unlike those bookends.

Bookends create nothing but ignorance and blinders unless it is updated and change to adapt to society.

Or added to with other relevant research which adds to knowledge instead of limiting it.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I have not just experienced this phenomenon with Christian zealots, I have experienced similar phenomenon with gay people. I grew up in the Theater, and began as an actor and as I grew up started writing and directing as well. The theater seems to be a haven for homosexuals and this was always fine with me. However, very many of them were too intent on preaching "tolerance" to me, when in all fairness I had never teased, cajoled or questioned homosexuality in anyway. I had accepted it since it was something I was familiar with since I was a little kid. Yet, because I had never written a homosexual character in any of my plays, several homosexuals felt compelled to take me to task for this because, as the argument goes, "10% of the population is gay".


I was in the Easter Pageant and a stagehand.

Bravo for your theatre work.

More men and women wear makeup in theatre than Drag-Queens at Hollywood and Vine.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I would patiently try to explain that the stories I was writing did not call for homosexual characters and they were not intrinsic to my story. If they didn't push the story forward, I saw no reason to simply just write one out of 10 of my characters as gay. I also pointed out that most of my plays were only 4 or five characters and would ask if they expected me to, in a five character play, make one character bisexual to comply with this arbitrary 10% rule, or if I should keep tabs from play to play, and once I have reached 10 characters, make the tenth gay. I usually got agitated responses when asking these questions, and too many would simply just dismiss me as being "homophobic".


I see your point and I see their's as well.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I fully understand the O.P.s frustrations, just as I fully understand many peoples frustrations with the religious zealots. In the end, if both Christians and gays want to have parades, and want to hold press conferences drawing attention to themselves, and flaunt their nature, this is fine with me. However, when any person, regardless of their cause, begins preaching to me that I am obligated to acknowledge some sort of special right that belongs to them solely because of their peculiar proclivities, then my tolerance turns to zero.


I can concur with you 100% on that.

I still see both sides as wrong though.

I will not listen to bigots nor to those flaunting proclivities.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I am, first and foremost, an advocate for freedom, and if people cannot understand that pleading for legal rights, or civil rights is a pleading for tyranny this is not just their problem, they are making it my problem, your problem, and every single person in a state, nation, or the planet's problem. Be Christian, be gay, be straight, be atheist, be whatever you want that causes no harm, but be a petty tyrant, and now I have an issue with it. Petty tyrants come in all shape and sizes, some are Christian, some agnostic, some atheist, some straight, and some gay. Whatever bent they take is irrelevant, if they insist on tyranny they are harmful and dangerous.


Agreed.

I stand against bullies no matter what their particular kingdom of stupidity might encourage.

Tyrants come in all shapes, forms, and fashion, even in the fashion industry.

Bigots abound where ignorance feeds darkness and secrets and fills those people with fertilizer.


Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
I cannot stress this enough, all people everywhere have the same universal unalienable rights, and if those rights are being abrogated and/or derogated, it matters not why they are being trampled upon, only that they are being trampled upon. No act of legislation can prevent two people from getting married, nor can any act of legislation force a church to marry those they believe are not deserving of the sacred bond of marriage. No act of legislation can prevent a person from earning an honest living based upon their bent, and no act of legislation can force another person to hire someone whose bent is incompatible with theirs.

No one deserves to be unduly harmed, and people do not have to accept ideologies not compatible with their own. This is what it means to be free.


Of course and I thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with me.
edit on 3/23/11 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by The Djin
reply to post by goochball
 





But, I can confidently say that the majority of gays that I have met were just too blatant about it.


So what exactly is wrong with that ? Straight people can equally be as blatant about their sexuality, what's your problem









gay people don't scare me but remarks like yours do.




My problem? All right; but only because you asked:

I do try to be rational and "tolerant": I realized early on as a child a black skinned person was a person; had the same anatomy and brain I had; so therefore they must have had the same intelligence feelings; ego; wants and needs.or at least the capacity...

Straight males can't comment on gay "issues" or behavior because "you must be secretly gay and hiding ( its the result of an actual research "study"( no agenda there.
..); so it must be true).

Perhaps this will illustrate a point: The first time I watched the revolting internet video sensation "two-girls : one cup"
( "Special effects" or not) I thought it was the most revolting stomach turning thing I've ever seen. It never failed to physically bring a little vomit up. I get the exact same revolting reaction to two men open mouth kissing. Lesbians not so much...It's "physical" it's not a conscious choice to hate or accept:Hence I imagine being gay simply HAS to be physical( something you are born to)..(?)
So in my book :There's something "different" going on there( Is it physiological? psychological?I don't know );and "Good" or "bad" are relative terms.

Two "people" committed to each other in love is definitely"good " as opposed to two men trying to destroy each other...

It may be perfectly natural to gays but there is a physically revolting reaction in straight males I don't know if anybody ever broke the P.C.taboo and told you guys or not. So have great time down at the"blue onion"I'll stay in my favorite blues music bar and keep to myself; thank you very much.


edit on 23-3-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:18 PM
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I'm making this post matter where I perceive others have not.

I am a never-married heterosexual female. I go on dates but I am not in a relationship. I don't feel the need to make out with a guy in the streets and personally I find public displays of affection beyond a kiss on the cheek or holding hands to be a little gross. Yet it is true that it is the straight people with their track record that have messed up the institution of marriage. Over half of marriages end in divorce. My partnered gay friends have more stable relationships than my married straight friends. They are probably also less "kinky" by whatever defines that term.

Everyone deserves to live their life the way they want. That said, people do NOT have the luxury of choosing their sexual orientation. I support the right of all adult human beings to marry the partner of their choice regardless of gender. It appalls me that legislation is even necessary.

It is important to remember that not all gay people feel the need to advertise their sexuality. I attend the Pride Parade in San Francisco every year to show my support and most of all to have a good time. Heck, I've brought my 80 year old grandmother and she gave me all the condoms and lube that people were throwing like it was a Mardi Gras parade. It's a celebration of diversity and universal love/consciousness, even when it gets a bit flamboyant. All in good fun with an important message. I can think of worse things to see than dudes in tutus or leather chaps. If it takes being a little over-the-top to teach tolerance and respect for others...

then let your freak flag fly (safely) and have a good time.




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