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Judge orders use of Islamic law in Tampa lawsuit over mosque leadership

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posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
reply to post by loam
 


Don't have to find another example.

If it had been a U.S. couple the judge would have found criminal intent. The judge stated he did not find criminal intent because the man was acting under his belief system - sharia - even though that belief would not hold up for U.S. citizens.

And the fact that it was overruled has no bearing on this argument. It just means - for now - that saner judgement prevailed in the end.

After saying you'd be "right with me" if I found an example of sharia trumping U.S. law outside of this contract dispute, you are reneging on that? So, I (quickly) found one. In other words, it's OK with you if someone gets away with assault and battery in the U.S. by using a sharia defense?

Now you appear to be be doing nothing more than attempting to save face after putting yourself out on a logical limb. Somehow I expected more than that from you based on your previous posts.



That's because the test for criminal intent is wholly subjective.




posted on Mar, 28 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by hawaii50th
 



I guess the real question to ask is, do laws actually prevent crime, or simply create more criminals?


No, the laws are too weak in some places and some of the jail systems are to easy going. And believe it or not many criminal commit crimes to get back into the prison system, cause they can't handle living on the outside.



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th
When the first immigrants came to this country, did they try to impose their beliefs, laws, and culture upon everyone that were already here?

uh, Y E S


Originally posted by hawaii50th
Never mind the Muslims and giving away too much to them, we need to figure them out first,
Have you tried just having a friendly chat,
what would you like to know ?
Basically islam is a way to personnel deen - family values, ethics,
and good health, (same as which is shared by others who value ethics)


______________________


____________________



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by hawaii50th
When the first immigrants came to this country, did they try to impose their beliefs, laws, and culture upon everyone that were already here?

uh, Y E S


Originally posted by hawaii50th
Never mind the Muslims and giving away too much to them, we need to figure them out first,
Have you tried just having a friendly chat,
what would you like to know ?
Basically islam is a way to personnel deen - family values, ethics,
and good health, (same as which is shared by others who value ethics)


______________________


____________________


So your Muslim? If so are you a moderate or more?



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th
So your Muslim? If so are you a moderate or more?

Why the labels ? The only relevance concerning Islam is
5 pillars/prayer/ and Qur'an to be a Muslim.
Anything more than that, would be like judging a
persons character by their race. Islam isn't about culture,
or the diverse race, or about left or right.
The only requirement to be muslim is as previously stated.
A person's temperament, character doesn't define Islam any more
than george bush defines christianity.
. . . hope that I clarified it for you

___________________



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by hawaii50th
So your Muslim? If so are you a moderate or more?

Why the labels ? The only relevance concerning Islam is
5 pillars/prayer/ and Qur'an to be a Muslim.
Anything more than that, would be like judging a
persons character by their race. Islam isn't about culture,
or the diverse race, or about left or right.
The only requirement to be muslim is as previously stated.
A person's temperament, character doesn't define Islam any more
than george bush defines christianity.
. . . hope that I clarified it for you

___________________


No your clarification is not clear enough. It's not about labels either.
I didn't ask you about your race, I asked if your a moderate or more than just a moderate. This question has nothing to do with race.
I never brought up culture either, we are talking about religion, a belief that's it.
Like in Christianity, you have moderates, than you have fundamentalist, there are those that don't practice, they believe to a point, but they don't take part in everything. Than you have those that practice the faith diligently.

So my question again, are you a moderate, or a fundamentalist?
What are the 5 pillars?
What about jihad? What is that all about?



posted on Mar, 29 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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Let this speak for it's self of what is happening in France and other parts of Europe.




posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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Reply to ToneDeaf


I guess I won't get a reply to my legitimate questions, point is made.
edit on 31-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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pot smokers...you must be rastafarians eh? make your own laws and if youre caught...get tried on rastafarian laws...


and to all the other religions, cults, sects...do the same...



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by hawaii50th
Reply to ToneDeaf


I guess I won't get a reply to my legitimate questions, point is made.
edit on 31-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)


That's like asking whether someone is a moderate or 'more than moderate' Christian. It is an irrelevant question if you have a proper understanding of the faith in question.

Take the Westboro Baptist Church for example. I'm pretty bloody sure most (or I would at least hope most) Christians would say that their violent and aggressive views are not actually very Christian at all. Their views are 'religious' in the sense that they are inspired by a religious belief (however misguided it is) and believe that their interpretation of religion on that/those points (namely homosexuality) are correct, but they do not reflect the wider, inherent values of the religion of Christianity.

The Bible can have just as many portions of it quoted out of context (either with regards to the literature itself or the time period in which it was written) as can the Qu'ran, although I will confess that my knowledge of the Qu'ran is perhaps not as informed as I would wish it to be.

Plain and simple, although extremists operate under the guise of Islam and religion, the vast majority of muslims (and the vast majority of Imams and Islamic clerics) would not hold their views to be in accordance with the fundamental tenets of Islam.

Edit: I should point out, on the issue of jihad, that Christianity is not without it's own history of Holy War.
edit on 31-3-2011 by duality90 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by duality90

Originally posted by hawaii50th
Reply to ToneDeaf


I guess I won't get a reply to my legitimate questions, point is made.
edit on 31-3-2011 by hawaii50th because: (no reason given)


That's like asking whether someone is a moderate or 'more than moderate' Christian. It is an irrelevant question if you have a proper understanding of the faith in question.

Take the Westboro Baptist Church for example. I'm pretty bloody sure most (or I would at least hope most) Christians would say that their violent and aggressive views are not actually very Christian at all. Their views are 'religious' in the sense that they are inspired by a religious belief (however misguided it is) and believe that their interpretation of religion on that/those points (namely homosexuality) are correct, but they do not reflect the wider, inherent values of the religion of Christianity.

The Bible can have just as many portions of it quoted out of context (either with regards to the literature itself or the time period in which it was written) as can the Qu'ran, although I will confess that my knowledge of the Qu'ran is perhaps not as informed as I would wish it to be.

Plain and simple, although extremists operate under the guise of Islam and religion, the vast majority of muslims (and the vast majority of Imams and Islamic clerics) would not hold their views to be in accordance with the fundamental tenets of Islam.

Edit: I should point out, on the issue of jihad, that Christianity is not without it's own history of Holy War.
edit on 31-3-2011 by duality90 because: (no reason given)


In Christianity you have the Sunday Christians, they're the ones that are Christians for convenience, than you have the traditional ones they believe everything in their churches traditions are correct. Than there are the fundamental ones that take only what the bible teaches, lastly there are the radicals that take out of context are judgmental and some times violent.

In the Qu'ran the word jihad is there, there is also the use of violence mentioned to convert. From what I have read, and I looked everywhere to make sure it was the proper translation, it would seem there are two types of Muslim. There is the moderate, that believe to an extent but don't follow all the teachings, than the fundamentalist or extremist. Islam is taught as the only true religion, and that the non-Muslims are infidels that need to be converted over, and if they refuse than off with their heads period.

So, regardless there is fundamental like you put it, tenets.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by hawaii50th
 


There is the same in the bible, is there a real point? What does any of that have to do with a contract, willingly signed by two parties, and the contract being upheld? That is what the story is about...



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 04:44 PM
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reply to post by hawaii50th
 


According to my muslim friend, the jihad is the battle between "good and evil", within yourself. Kind of like how christians are supposed to battle the sin within.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by hawaii50th
 


There is the same in the bible, is there a real point? What does any of that have to do with a contract, willingly signed by two parties, and the contract being upheld? That is what the story is about...


In answer to your question, here..

from, ToneDeaf posted on 29-3-2011 @ 12:02 AM
Have you tried just having a friendly chat,
what would you like to know ?

I was invited to ask questions, but never got an answer to what is "jihad."

Here right out of the Qu'ran, quote:



Muhsin Khan And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihad, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].




Muhsin Khan Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.




Sahih International ... decline, and dwellings with which you are pleased are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger and jihad in His cause, then wait until Allah executes His command. And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient ...




Muhsin Khan ... the Quran) is revealed, enjoining them to believe in Allah and to strive hard and fight along with His Messenger, the wealthy among them ask your leave to exempt them (from Jihad) and say, "Leave us (behind), we would be with those who sit (at home)."




Muhsin Khan There is no blame on those who are weak or ill or who find no resources to spend [in holy fighting (Jihad)], if they are sincere and true (in duty) to Allah and His Messenger. No ground (of complaint) can there be against the Muhsinun (good-doers - see the ...




Muhsin Khan And it is not (proper) for the believers to go out to fight (Jihad) all together. Of every troop of them, a party only should go forth, that they (who are left behind) may get instructions in (Islamic) religion, and that they may warn their people when ...




Muhsin Khan ... not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them except with truth, and the Hour is surely coming, so overlook (O Muhammad SAW), their faults with gracious forgiveness. [This was before the ordainment of Jihad holy fighting in Allah's Cause].


33:23


Muhsin Khan Among the believers are men who have been true to their covenant with Allah [i.e. they have gone out for Jihad (holy fighting), and showed not their backs to the disbelievers], of them some have fulfilled their obligations (i.e. have been martyred), and ...

quran.com...

Translation from,
www.dar-us-salam.com...

So does this sound like jihad is the battle between "good and evil", within yourself? Look especially at the last verse.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by hawaii50th
 


Hmmm, my translation is different than yours

33:23Among the believers there are people who fulfill their pledges with GOD. Some of them died, while others stand ready, never wavering.
33:24 GOD will surely recompense the truthful for their truthfulness, and will punish the hypocrites, if He so wills, or redeem them. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


Ugh, here I go again, letting someone drag me into the offtopic mud again......
edit on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:07:16 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

edit on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:08:57 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by hawaii50th
 


Hmmm, my translation is different than yours

33:23Among the believers there are people who fulfill their pledges with GOD. Some of them died, while others stand ready, never wavering.
33:24 GOD will surely recompense the truthful for their truthfulness, and will punish the hypocrites, if He so wills, or redeem them. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


Ugh, here I go again, letting someone drag me into the offtopic mud again......
edit on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:07:16 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

edit on Fri, 01 Apr 2011 19:08:57 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


You questioned I answered, maybe try blaming yourself not me, I was just standing here minding my own business and you came along and wanted to know something so I told you.



posted on Apr, 1 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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What is the judge thinking? The comparison and contrast to present judicial proceedings is very interesting, but would this not result in a mistrial due to seperation of church and state?

I'd need to see more about this case to really give an informed opinion on the situation, very interesting.

edit on 1-4-2011 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by trekwebmaster
What is the judge thinking? The comparison and contrast to present judicial proceedings is very interesting, but would this not result in a mistrial due to seperation of church and state?

I'd need to see more about this case to really give an informed opinion on the situation, very interesting.

edit on 1-4-2011 by trekwebmaster because: (no reason given)



After you get more info on it, I would like to read your take on what more you get out of it.



posted on Apr, 11 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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Rarely do you see the other side to the story. Evil seems to be in the lead these past years, it's time for good to catch up if it can.




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