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Putin slams West for 'medieval crusade'

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posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by budski
 


Honestly I think Putin is just being an ass...



Yes, and like Putin often does - likes to yell, "Hey, remember me (russia). We're big players, too." whenever he thinks the world has forgotten about russia and moved on to more relevant issues. Taken with Putin's posed photo ops, etc. it could be some some sort of macho thing.

In this case, Putin is also being quite hypocritical considering the russian/soviet track record of invading other countries and killing their civilians - even if they've been too poor to do so much of it over the last 10 years.



edit on 3/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)


Why does the past matter?

What does the USSR have to do with me?

I posted this because he is right - no matter what has been done in the past, by his PREDECESSORS.

In this instance, he is spot on - even a stopped clock is right twice a day...




posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Why does the past matter?



Simply, the past matters because it is often a predictor of the future.

Recall the paradigm: This who ignore or forget the past are bound to repeat it.

And in the case of russia, that's something - a repeat of their past actions - no one wants to see happen again. Especially since many of the same people that committed those past crimes against humanity are still running the country, and now hypocritically criticizing the actions of other countries.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Who are these people, and what have they done that is so much worse than what bush did, and are you now saying that there are stalinists who pull Putins strings?

It has no bearing on the fact that Putin got it right, and like I said, he might be a thug and an idiot but he got it right this time.

The fact that YOU don't like his message is immaterial - he is bang on the money, in this instance.
If he spoke about the illegal murders, death squads and unwanted intervention of the US in Vietnam, Korea and South America he would be right as well, not to mention the genocide committed, and the torturing of innocents.

You were bigging up medvedev earlier, then changed your tune pretty quick after I posted what he said about S. Ossetia.

Again, Putin might be an arse, but he got this one right.


edit on 22/3/2011 by budski because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by budski

Why does the past matter?



Simply, the past matters because it is often a predictor of the future.

Recall the paradigm: This who ignore or forget the past are bound to repeat it.

And in the case of russia, that's something - a repeat of their past actions - no one wants to see happen again. Especially since many of the same people that committed those past crimes against humanity are still running the country, and now hypocritically criticizing the actions of other countries.


As budski previously stated, and I agree to a large degree with him, the western european powers have practiced imperialism for four or five centuries, while the USA and Russia/USSR have forcibly spread their influence for only half a century.

Russia is far less guilty than france, britain and spain. That is undeniable and there is no need to repeat the same things over and over again. What really pissed me off with "the UN resolution" is that they were convening to discuss libya while the japanesse chernobyl was going full blast and is still undecided. Quite disrespectful for the millions that will die from radiation poisoning, earthquake victims and tsunami victims. It is totally unacceptable, especially the timing!

I think Putin speaks more truth lately than any of our "elected" officials so I will give him some credit. I just don't want people to think russians are "virgins" because that would be laughable!



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 





And in the case of russia, that's something - a repeat of their past actions - no one wants to see happen again. Especially since many of the same people that committed those past crimes against humanity are still running the country, and now hypocritically criticizing the actions of other countries.


In order to be a hypocrite one has to condemn the same act previously done by themselves which they excused themselves from doing but are not excusing the other party they are condemning for the same thing.

So if the Russians are by your insistance being hypocritical about Crimes against Humanity committed by the U.S. and Allied Nations, then the U.S. and Allied Nations are by way of that statement guilty of Crimes against Humanity by your own admission, while presently the Russians are guilty of nothing but hypocracy!

So who is it exactly again that is not learning the lessons of the past?


edit on 22/3/11 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
As budski previously stated, and I agree to a large degree with him, the western european powers have practiced imperialism for four or five centuries, while the USA and Russia/USSR have forcibly spread their influence for only half a century.

Russia is far less guilty than france, britain and spain. That is undeniable and there is no need to repeat the same things over and over again. What really pissed me off with "the UN resolution" is that they were convening to discuss libya while the japanesse chernobyl was going full blast and is still undecided. Quite disrespectful for the millions that will die from radiation poisoning, earthquake victims and tsunami victims. It is totally unacceptable, especially the timing!

I think Putin speaks more truth lately than any of our "elected" officials so I will give him some credit. I just don't want people to think russians are "virgins" because that would be laughable!


Fair points


Putin, for all his faults (or maybe because of them) is not an imbecile or someone who speaks without weighing his words carefully - he would not have survived so long in Russian politics if he was a fool.

It's quite "trendy" in the west to laugh at him out riding his horse with no shirt on, or to disdain his interest in martial arts - but to dismiss him would be an act of folly.

yes, there is a certain amount of posturing in what he does and says, but it is very calculated posturing designed to appeal to the russian psyche.

Of course he has an ulterior motive for saying this, but IMO he is right on this occasion.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by centurion1211
 





And in the case of russia, that's something - a repeat of their past actions - no one wants to see happen again. Especially since many of the same people that committed those past crimes against humanity are still running the country, and now hypocritically criticizing the actions of other countries.


In order to be a hypocrite one has to condemn the same act previously done by themselves which they excused themselves from doing but are not excusing the other party they are condemning for the same thing.


Exactly what the russians are doing.


So if the Russians are by your insistance being hypocritical about Crimes against Humanity committed by the U.S. and Allied Nations, then the U.S. and Allied Nations are by way of that statement guilty of Crimes against Humanity by your own admission, while presently the Russians are guilty of nothing but hypocracy!


Spaghetti logic - and also false.

Agree to disagree on whether the russians are bing hypcritical.


edit on 3/22/2011 by centurion1211 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


I have nothing against socialism or communism and I prefer both over capitalism. Hitler gave a bad name to socialism and stalin gave a bad name to communism but look at cuba, north korea and venezuela. Neither of the three is a lunatic by the classic definition!

On the other hand bush and reagan screwed capitalism.

Its all about the flavor of each system and who runs the show.

And classic socialism has nothing to do with communism despite what ignorant people say. Unfortunately socialists have to sleep with communists to prevent western europe and america from invading them under false pretenses, but then again its not countries that ORDER the invasions, its big private *self-intrest* groups that do.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


Too funny you can play all the word games you want my friend.

Spagetti is a word with a very real definition and so is hypocrite.

You either A. are a person who says what you mean and mean what you say, or you are B. a person with a poor grasp of the venacular and the meaning of words making emotional arguments to avoid the facts.

If its A, and you used the words you used correctly, then obviously you recognize that the US and their Allies are guilty of Crimes against Humanity, if it's B then it means you are incapable of having an intelligent debate.

Or my own suspicion C. All of the Above!



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by budski
 


I have nothing against socialism or communism and I prefer both over capitalism. Hitler gave a bad name to socialism and stalin gave a bad name to communism but look at cuba, north korea and venezuela. Neither of the three is a lunatic by the classic definition!

On the other hand bush and reagan screwed capitalism.

Its all about the flavor of each system and who runs the show.

And classic socialism has nothing to do with communism despite what ignorant people say. Unfortunately socialists have to sleep with communists to prevent western europe and america from invading them under false pretenses, but then again its not countries that ORDER the invasions, its big private *self-intrest* groups that do.


Going off topic for a moment to discuss political ideology
socialism is the precursor to communism, although some would say that they are one and the same. IMO this shows a lack of understanding, but we can probably blame joe mcarthy and his "anti communist" vendetta for that.

That said, Putin has probably weighed his words very carefully for maximum effect here, particularly with the use of "Crusade" but IMO that doesn't make what he says any less valid



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Fair enough - I happen to think he is spot on.

I don't really care about his motivations, or choice of words - the fact is that despite people being slaughtered all throughout Africa, and some eastern countries, western allies only ever choose to intervene when there is black gold at stake.

So forgive me if I take all this nonsense about "democracy" and "freedom" with a pinch of salt - if that were truly the case, then Saudi would not be the wests biggest ally in the area, and it is, despite it being the source of one of the most extreme forms of Islam, and having one of the most repugnant judicial systems on the planet.




Oh i don't doubt that the intent of this is "in our best interests" kind of thinking... And I agree there are places like Sudan that I believe should get thhe platinum freedom package as well....

I do think that the prospect of having an entire city massacred like what was about to happen was also on so much of the worlds stage that we had to assist, especially when the Arab League asked... There is definitely a political win if we can do this right, and seen by the right people...



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by HunkaHunka
 


Hmmm, politics...

Isn't that one of the major problems here?

Put another way, it almost seems like there has to be something in it for us (or them, the corporations that drive our economies)) - and then we excuse is at a humanitarian mission.



Nothing makes it right - it's bullying and robbery, for the most part.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:36 PM
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When America says they are coming to your country on a humanitarian military mission, peacekeeping mission or a nation rebuilding mission, you should be very scared. I'm supried that the U.S hasn't noticed that every country they have occupied since the end of World War II, has been destroyed by them an they have almost always been countrer-productive in saving lives. Well, I think they have noticed, they just choose not to care, after all national interests are they reason they become involved, even if that is not the official reason.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by Mdv2
reply to post by centurion1211
 


Not to speak of their little adventure in Georgia - I don't see how that was any different from the Western intervention in Libya.


Excellent point. I'd already forgotten about that.

Clear and recent illustration of russian hypocrisy.


That was a clear Russian response to a georgian aggression whereby the georgians launched an artillery barrage and ground attack against the Russian speaking population of a town, the complete opposite of what you are claiming, as doubtless you know.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
reply to post by budski
 


I have nothing against socialism or communism and I prefer both over capitalism. Hitler gave a bad name to socialism and stalin gave a bad name to communism but look at cuba, north korea and venezuela. Neither of the three is a lunatic by the classic definition!

On the other hand bush and reagan screwed capitalism.

Its all about the flavor of each system and who runs the show.

And classic socialism has nothing to do with communism despite what ignorant people say. Unfortunately socialists have to sleep with communists to prevent western europe and america from invading them under false pretenses, but then again its not countries that ORDER the invasions, its big private *self-intrest* groups that do.


Going off topic for a moment to discuss political ideology
socialism is the precursor to communism, although some would say that they are one and the same. IMO this shows a lack of understanding, but we can probably blame joe mcarthy and his "anti communist" vendetta for that.

That said, Putin has probably weighed his words very carefully for maximum effect here, particularly with the use of "Crusade" but IMO that doesn't make what he says any less valid


I don't think socialism is necessarily the precursor to communism but it can be if communism is the ultimate goal. Personally I belive true socialism, aka market socialism like western europe 3-4 decades ago without private central banking, is the ideal system of eco-politics.

Its a middle of the road system. All major industry is nationalised while medium and small industry is private and regulated as necessary. Telephone, railroad, airlines, shipping, water, museums, schools, electricity, oil and gas exploration, airports, seaports, etc all *we the people* government owned.

Everything else can and should be private-for profit! Even cuba is making huge reforms in this direction as everyone used to work for the state/nation, but economic woes and low productivity have forced them to start privatising.

The problem in the USA is that everything has become private and the problem with the Soviet Union was that everything was public. Again where is the middle road I ask?

Sorry for going off topic so much but people need to be reminded of what socialism is and stop confusing it with communism. I think Hitler was a true socialist but unfortunately he was also an ultra-nationalist with dreams of conquering the world.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


According to the communist manifesto,a socialist state is a pre-requisite, according to Marx and Engels - but who's to say they were right?

Political theory is a miinefield, but you're right, too many people confuse socialism with communism - goota love ol' joe McCarthy and his acolytes...



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


According to the communist manifesto,a socialist state is a pre-requisite, according to Marx and Engels - but who's to say they were right?

Political theory is a miinefield, but you're right, too many people confuse socialism with communism - goota love ol' joe McCarthy and his acolytes...



The thing is that marxism is way off from communism too.

Marx believed that the workers would unanimously rise up and revolt. Lenin's communist theory is that you need a vanguard party (the Soviet, in his case, bolsheviks) of intellectual rebels to lead the revolt because populist reactionism is "infantile" and can easily be manipulated.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


Putin is an a**hole.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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MAN, its seems that we are getting alot closer to ww3.
the sides are being picked and fast!



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


What your not saying, it still rings true. Putin has taken he's country back 20 years. You can't not cut the people off from the rest of the world by insisting on only state run television and expect the people of your country to fully understand the NWO the world is attaining, be it wrong I agree, never the less, it's happening, the only thing I give Putin credit for is fighting against it. But that said, he will join it, for the NWO will give him no choice. Trying to live in the past is Putins great mistake, He should be standing up and fighting out loud, but he's not. Why?
edit on 23-3-2011 by mesle123 because: (no reason given)




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