Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says

reply to post by MrXYZ

So wait...are you seriously claiming the Mayans, Incas, and all the other people that died out did so because they worshipped the wrong god (the one you don't agree with)....are you serious? You might wanna open a history book

Matthew 24:14 (Amplified Bible)
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

Before this part of scripture is fulfilled, I believe that God is such a loving God that He will give those that lived a good, decent life and a giving loving heart a chance for salvation at the hour of their death.

People have said "the end is near" and similar hogwash for thousands of years...guess what, their track record is god awful

Yes, yes I've heard this so much before, it's the same old excuse made over and over from the ones that are spiritually dead and do not understand about time and God. I'm not even going to get into it. I am growing tired with all the foolishness on ATS.

reply to post by hawaii50th


Look, as long as you quote the bible as your evidence, I can't take you serious. The bible is evidence of what people believed 2000 years ago based on their limited knowledge...and instead of accepting what great discoveries science made since then, you prefer to live in the middle ages and ignore anything that goes against your belief...no matter how logical/rational it is. It's really quite sad given we live in the 21st century

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by hawaii50th

 

Look, as long as you quote the bible as your evidence, I can't take you serious. The bible is evidence of what people believed 2000 years ago based on their limited knowledge...and instead of accepting what great discoveries science made since then, you prefer to live in the middle ages and ignore anything that goes against your belief...no matter how logical/rational it is. It's really quite sad given we live in the 21st century

Your not the first one to think in this way, regardless of how you think and feel and regardless of how I think and feel this is the way it will be.
Your statement that the bible is what people believed 2000 years ago is false. People have always put the bible as a credible source of knowledge, wisdom, and teaching on how to live.
You live on total intellect and therefore don't understand the spiritual part of life, this is what I'm getting from you with what your writing.
There is a spiritual side, but as long as your not open to it you will never understand it.

Science has come a long way, especially in the last 135 years. Think of it, in only 135 years the leaps and bounds that science has made. Why is it that it's only such a short period of time? After 2000 years you'd think man would be so advanced, what happened in all that time? If science is so logical and rational, why is it that man is still at war with each other? Why is it that there are so much disease, why is it that there is so much pollution? Why is it that we are no further ahead socially today than it was say 200 years ago.

The scriptures of the bible has out lasted every other writings. Prophecy is the most important part of foretelling the destiny of man. It even speaks of you, and how you will mock the Word of God as not being true, that you will mock the name of Jesus as the One that came for all man.
No, you don't have to agree with me as I don't have to agree with you. I have nothing to prove to you, every man has to follow his own path, and you have chosen your as I have chosen mine.

I can't take you serious either, you live in and of the world, you love your life and want to keep it. Where as I don't worry about life here on this earth, I choose to rather preserve my soul rather than my life.

Originally posted by hawaii50th
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

So wait...are you seriously claiming the Mayans, Incas, and all the other people that died out did so because they worshipped the wrong god (the one you don't agree with)....are you serious? You might wanna open a history book

Matthew 24:14 (Amplified Bible)
14 And this good news of the kingdom (the Gospel) will be preached throughout the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then will come the end.

Before this part of scripture is fulfilled, I believe that God is such a loving God that He will give those that lived a good, decent life and a giving loving heart a chance for salvation at the hour of their death.

People have said "the end is near" and similar hogwash for thousands of years...guess what, their track record is god awful

Yes, yes I've heard this so much before, it's the same old excuse made over and over from the ones that are spiritually dead and do not understand about time and God. I'm not even going to get into it. I am growing tired with all the foolishness on ATS.

Apart from the overwhelming majority amongst secularists, which according to my reasoning are becoming secular from uncomplex pragmatic motives, there are several smaller groups of secularists operating with more sophisticated 'tools'. Examples related to your post:

Referring to the first half of your post it's obvious, that it's based on a circle-argument; the bible is true, because it is true. And as such it only has subjective validity, for the believer of the circle-argument only.

The 'testimony'-process of preaching/spreading this subjective opinion includes so many invasive elements, that even if this subjective opinion had contained any objective facts, these invasive methods of preaching/spreading will by themselves repulse many people, even those with some theist sympathies.

It's easy to get the impression, that any product needing so much violence (verbal or physical) to be sold, can't have much merit speaking for itself.

So consequently leading to increasing secularization, as no-one likes to see invasive elitism involved in the running of democratic society.





The second half of your post states, that individuals pointing out at least 40 christian failed end-of-days predictions, and from this concluding, that christian predictions are worthless, are spiritually dead.

Premises on logical ground: The christianities have repeatedly made false predictions

Conclusion on logical ground: Christian prediction-methods are invalid.


Premises on your subjective ground: Christian predictions methods are self-defined to be valid (in spite of evidence to the contrary)

Your conclusions: People opposing your claims are spiritually dead.

The category 'spiritually dead' would then include other religions not accepting christian predictology (maybe because they have their own version) and in the contexts of religion, such derogation of competition is both insulting and primitive, and is bound to create troubles.

And as a representative of secular, egalitarian, liberal democracy......we could do well without your kind of troublemaking. There are serious and real problems to consider, so we don't need any artificially created ones also.

So this is still another reason for the decline of religion and increase of secularism in the typical liberal societies mentioned in the article in OP. Even if it's technically legal, it's against co-sensus in these countries to wildly throw unsubstantiated propagandistic mud around you.

(PS Just for the record. Do YOU know anything about time?)

reply to post by hawaii50th


You wrote to XYZ:

["Your not the first one to think in this way, regardless of how you think and feel and regardless of how I think and feel this is the way it will be."]

Still using circle-arguments???

Quote: ["Your statement that the bible is what people believed 2000 years ago is false. People have always put the bible as a credible source of knowledge, wisdom, and teaching on how to live."]

It's a fact, that the bible was (gradually) written some 1500+ years ago, based on earlier oral information. How can it possibly be anything than an expression of that time?

The second half of this statement is false. The amount of believers and historically extent of any ideology is not proof of any intrinsic value in the ideology. In that case hinduism is as 'true' as the christianities.

Quote: [" There is a spiritual side, but as long as your not open to it you will never understand it."]

First of all: Spirituality is not THE norm for all mankind. You can judge yourself by this, but not others. Secondly: Just for the fun of it. You are presenting a 'holier-than-you' postulate, but it can seriously be questioned, if you would recognize true spirituality, even if you were thrown into a vat of it.

We DO NOT go around in secular society and cram our personal opinions down other peoples' throats.

Quote: ["Science has come a long way, especially in the last 135 years. Think of it, in only 135 years the leaps and bounds that science has made. Why is it that it's only such a short period of time? After 2000 years you'd think man would be so advanced, what happened in all that time?"]

What happened was, that religion lost its irrational and totalitarian grip, so science got a chance to grow in the environment of increasingly secular society.

Quote: ["If science is so logical and rational, why is it that man is still at war with each other?"]

Wars are practically always started by people who have invasive elitistic mindsets.

Besides science doesn't claim any 'saviour' function.

Quote: ["Why is it that there are so much disease, ..."]

Science has been the main factor in doubling the average lifespan in some centuries, by e.g. eliminating some of our worst illnessess. Christianity did much to suppress medicine, when it (christianity) was in power.

Quote: ["why is it that there is so much pollution?"]

Because mankind is a mildly greedy species, overusing resources. The 'medicine' for this is most strongly expressed in secular countries, which are very active in resource-restrictive directions. The worst polluters are the poor countries and 'god's own country'.

One point for the most secular, egalitarian, liberal democracies in this context.

Quote: [" Why is it that we are no further ahead socially today than it was say 200 years ago."]

Who are 'we' and what standards do you use.

I, living in one of the most secular countries in the world, with a moderate life-income, have a generous old-age state-pension; unemployed have a guaranteed minimum dole of 550 euros a month; I can go to a hospital and get food, boarding, COMPLETE medicare for 8 euros a day (without any need of private insurance at all); food is cheap and housing costs are reasonable and housing is often supplied by authorities. We have very few homeless, and free rehabilitation for substance abusers. We have a functional legal system, where you don't have to be stinking rich to protect your rights.

All that, BECAUSE my country is run on sane secular principles. So what the heck are you trying to suggest?

Quote: ["The scriptures of the bible has out lasted every other writings."]

Nope. And in any case, this doesn't 'prove' anything.

Quote; ["Prophecy is the most important part of foretelling the destiny of man. It even speaks of you, and how you will mock the Word of God as not being true, that you will mock the name of Jesus as the One that came for all man."]

Most people consider, that you can't run a society on such nonsense, so they prefer a secualer model, where prophecies, faith and similar are private interests.

Quote: ["No, you don't have to agree with me as I don't have to agree with you. I have nothing to prove to you, every man has to follow his own path, and you have chosen your as I have chosen mine."]

Does that mean, that you respect secular, liberal and egalitarian law as being above biblical law in society?

reply to post by hawaii50th

After 2000 years you'd think man would be so advanced, what happened in all that time?

The dark ages...you know, when people were killed by the inquisition because their scientific research or views went against the church. I mean, it took the church until the 21st century to publicly acknowledge that man's findings...and the same goes for the theory of evolution, they only just now accepted it. Luckily, the church doesn't have nearly the power they had during the dark ages, so now things are speeding up.

There's still fools who are trying to hinder science, like the guys calling microchips measuring blood levels "the mark of the beast". But those fools are pretty much not important anymore nowadays, and people can just ignore those village-idiot-like people and move on...in the past, the church would have killed them