Is being gay a choice/lifestyle?

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by badkitty
I'm not getting where you're coming from with this. How can we "find out wether their desire for woman is a choice/lifestyle or something they're born with" other than through scientific/medical study? How can the average hetro know what goes on in the mind, heart and body of the average homo?

How? I explained how.
There is no difference between being gay or straight, besides that it's the other way around. Do I choose to get turned on by other woman? No, I just do.
It does not take any study to understand it's the exact same way for gay people.

I see what you're saying - sorry I wasn't getting it the first time. I agree - anyone can examine their own urges and attractions and see that this chemical/biological response is the same whether hetero or homo. Thanks for setting me straight.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
The last time I checked the bible it states that God created man in His own image. Not sheep. You keep bringing up the gay sheep thing. To say that God created some of us to be born gay would prove that God image is would be both homosexual and heterosexual.

Some people are born blind or with other defects.
Does this mean that God was blind as well?
Your way of reasoning makes no sense.

God does not want us to be born gay, just like he wants every human being to be born healthy. The thing is, we're not yet in heaven. Sin and the devil have too much of an influence on this world for everything to go perfect. All we can do is make the best out of it, and ask God to help us and guide us.

I don't think "being gay" is wrong. I do think that having sex with people of your own gender is wrong, but I also think God understands -like noone else- how hard it is not to give in to your primal desires.

I have one problem with my own way of thinking though. It would mean that Gods gift of sex is just for those lucky enough to be born straight.
And this seems somewhat unfair.
And since God is not unfair, there might be another answer.

I don't have this answer, but thinking that God is okay with people of the same gender having sex, would mean that either a part of the bible is corrupt, or a part of the bible does not apply on us here and now.
And this is a somewhat weird conclusion, as it leaves you wondering what other parts of the OT are not true/no longer relevant.

Logically there are pluses and minuses to being gay. First everyone is individual. Having said that though, in general a male knows what pleases himself and therefore what would please another male. A female knows what pleases herself and therefore what would please another female.

I suppose for some people there is the childlike thrill of doing what youre not supposed to. If you suddenly made it illegal to be heterosexual, some people would try it just to be 'bad'. In the long run though it has to do with one's inate desires.

Gay people probably have better (more satisfying) sex. They understand one another's needs, in general, better. This is not to say that some people have very hot heterosexual sex. Society acts as a filter also, only those people who have STRONG sexual passions will go against ALL of societies sexual taboos.

I think when you speak of gay relationships not lasting, you are talking about gay male and NOT gay female relationships. The male in general tends to be somewhat less monogamously inclined than the female. Many gay female relationships last a lifetime. Many gay male relationships are short lived.

To freenergy, could it be that God is gay and heterosexuals are the slightly less than perfect reflections of him? (God, if one exists, could be female or neuter, possibly)
.

i myself know from my own personal experience that being of the homosexual nature is something we are born with. i myself have had homosexual tendencies even before i knew what homosexuality even was. not to mention with all the intolerance towards homosexuality, most people wouldn't choose to be gay out of not wanting to be an oucast from society. and even if homosexuality was some sort of choice, whats the big deal with it anyways. its your life, you should be able to do whatever the f@#$ you want with it anyways.

Female gay relationships are somehow accepted over the world, and they don't hold much attention. But male gay relationships are more annoying, and they usually want to make show of that. I have seen males licking each other many times over the street, and it was really disgusting to me, my guts almost turned out by seeing it. Somehow, as I feel being a healthy person, if I see things like this in real, it makes me very sick. Feels the same, if someone is using the sidewalk as toilet in front of me, while I am eating a hamburger. Anyone has an idea how that feels? Well, this is why I just cannot understand gay relationships. On the other hand, females are seem to be cute and lovely while being with each other, and people usually are capable of ignoring that, and a hetero relationship also fits in that. But I cannot imagine a normal minded woman, who has the guts to go in bed with a male, who has male partners. I may be wrong, though...

Originally posted by Istvan
Female gay relationships are somehow accepted over the world, and they don't hold much attention. But male gay relationships are more annoying, and they usually want to make show of that. I have seen males licking each other many times over the street, and it was really disgusting to me, my guts almost turned out by seeing it. Somehow, as I feel being a healthy person, if I see things like this in real, it makes me very sick. Feels the same, if someone is using the sidewalk as toilet in front of me, while I am eating a hamburger. Anyone has an idea how that feels? Well, this is why I just cannot understand gay relationships. On the other hand, females are seem to be cute and lovely while being with each other, and people usually are capable of ignoring that, and a hetero relationship also fits in that. But I cannot imagine a normal minded woman, who has the guts to go in bed with a male, who has male partners. I may be wrong, though...

The reason society already accepts lesibans over gays is because men can watch two women going at it or at least accept the idea because neither one of them has a penis. The idea of having to deal with a partner who has a penis on a subconscious level is devastating to heterosexuals who are not 100% sure whether they are interested or not, ie secure in their sexuality.

Originally posted by taibunsuu

. . . The idea of having to deal with a partner who has a penis on a subconscious level is devastating to heterosexuals who are not 100% sure whether they are interested or not, ie secure in their sexuality.

I'm having trouble understanding you. Do you mean the following?

1. That all heterosexuals are unsure of their sexuality?

2. That those heterosexuals who are unsure of themselves cannot stand the sight of a penis?

3. That the sight of something you might to have sex with is repugnant?

As far as number 1 goes, I think most hetero women are not 'devastated' by the presence of a penis.

If you are arguing #2, Those males I have met who are unsure of themselves (wrestling with homo/bi issues) seem to be fascinated by pictures of couples having sex. They seemed as obsessed with the act as most straight men are with the female body. For instance, most 'softcore porn' doesn't portray a couple posed in a steamy position. It just shows a naked and aroused female. Most straight men in our culture are put off by the presence, even in the photo, of a possible competitor.

Consider #3. Personally, given men's enthusiastic responses to lesbian activity (at least in their dreams) I think this would be hard to argue. Many women, hetero or not, do not really care for the sight of a naked male. Of course the stereotype is that women see sex as the prelude to a relationship, whereas men see any relationship as a prelude to sex.

It is hard to know, that gays may have any emotional relationship between each other. To me, it seems like it is all about the sex, nothing else.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Originally posted by taibunsuu

. . . The idea of having to deal with a partner who has a penis on a subconscious level is devastating to heterosexuals who are not 100% sure whether they are interested or not, ie secure in their sexuality.

I'm having trouble understanding you. Do you mean the following?

1. That all heterosexuals are unsure of their sexuality?

2. That those heterosexuals who are unsure of themselves cannot stand the sight of a penis?

3. That the sight of something you might to have sex with is repugnant?

As far as number 1 goes, I think most hetero women are not 'devastated' by the presence of a penis.

If you are arguing #2, Those males I have met who are unsure of themselves (wrestling with homo/bi issues) seem to be fascinated by pictures of couples having sex. They seemed as obsessed with the act as most straight men are with the female body. For instance, most 'softcore porn' doesn't portray a couple posed in a steamy position. It just shows a naked and aroused female. Most straight men in our culture are put off by the presence, even in the photo, of a possible competitor.

Consider #3. Personally, given men's enthusiastic responses to lesbian activity (at least in their dreams) I think this would be hard to argue. Many women, hetero or not, do not really care for the sight of a naked male. Of course the stereotype is that women see sex as the prelude to a relationship, whereas men see any relationship as a prelude to sex.

Nah, what I'm saying is that all the people who love lesbians but think gay guys are messed up are a bit confused...

IMHO you either are or you are not, it's not a lifestyle choice or something you do due to peer pressure. Why do I feel this way, because of all the guys in all my life that I have met I have never once had any "desire" for. So as Jerry says: "I'm NOT gaaay, not that theres anything wrong with that".

Originally posted by Istvan
Female gay relationships are somehow accepted over the world, and they don't hold much attention. But male gay relationships are more annoying, and they usually want to make show of that. I have seen males licking each other many times over the street, and it was really disgusting to me, my guts almost turned out by seeing it. Somehow, as I feel being a healthy person, if I see things like this in real, it makes me very sick. Feels the same, if someone is using the sidewalk as toilet in front of me, while I am eating a hamburger. Anyone has an idea how that feels? Well, this is why I just cannot understand gay relationships. On the other hand, females are seem to be cute and lovely while being with each other, and people usually are capable of ignoring that, and a hetero relationship also fits in that. But I cannot imagine a normal minded woman, who has the guts to go in bed with a male, who has male partners. I may be wrong, though...

Maybe it's also discusting for someone to see heteros licking eachother out on the street. For me it doesn't matter if they are gay or hetero and licking on the street. I think it's in both ways not inapropriate to do.

[edit on 29/7/2004 by rai76]

Originally posted by rai76
gay people [...] have more succes with jobs and have more money to spend. Hetero's maybe have that all less and are just married, kids, etc and have a standard life.

Can you prove this?

Why is this always such a big thing!? It doesn't matter one way or another. It's no ones business if someone is gay or not...doesn't have anything to do with any one else's life one way or another what others do...no one can use that ridiculous religion excuse.....if your so religious that you use that excuse, than you should be religious enough to not judge others and leave that to your all loving god......the whole thing is silly....it's just no one else's business as long it's between consenting adults, why should anyone care?

Just because you don't like Mexican food does not mean you should hate Mexicans.

I have to say that at this time, we just don't know enough about who they really are to say whether they are born that way.

I know that there has been speculation on other threads that the reptilioids are shapeshifters, but I have never seen any accounts that imply that any other crypto-species has that ability.

So obviously, until we learn more about their origins, it is safe to assume that yes, all grays are born that way.

Being Gay is as much a choice as being Black, left handed or short.

Originally posted by drbil
Being Gay is as much a choice as being Black, left handed or short.

And what proof or logic led you to this conclusion? What about straight men that become gay in prison? The human sex drive is what is natural. The choice of mate is a perceptional preference.

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by drbil
Being Gay is as much a choice as being Black, left handed or short.

And what proof or logic led you to this conclusion? What about straight men that become gay in prison? The human sex drive is what is natural. The choice of mate is a perceptional preference.

Logic? None. Experience as a Biological and behavioral researcher. Genetics dictate pair bonding preferrences, hormonal responce and a hoist of other biochemical basics.

Can you tell me how you can disagree? And please, don't base your responce of dogma. Use science ok?

Originally posted by LadyV
if your so religious that you use that excuse, than you should be religious enough to not judge others and leave that to your all loving god......the whole thing is silly....it's just no one else's business as long it's between consenting adults, why should anyone care?

I agree with you on this one. I believe, personally that some could be born that way and some not, I also believe in most cases it is a choice - it's case by case senario; however it only matters scientifically or medically, not for judgement. There is nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe is right, as long as you do not condemn others for what they believe is right. We all have the freedom of free will, but it is not God's will for us to force our will on others. I do have friends that are gay and they have stated that that was a choice they made; I may not agree with their choice, but I still love them, will I embrace their life style - no because it is not mine. How can you embrace something that you don't agree with. However, I don't condemn them and I certainly do not get mad when they don't embrace my lifestyle either. I love them and will always love them. We support each other in different ways, as friends. We have accepted our choices and are concentrating on more important things.