Is being gay a choice/lifestyle?

Originally posted by TrueLies
Your born with it, who's supposed to know it is when your a baby? Your brain is a sponge, I don't knowi 'm not a scientist, but as your grow you develop a personality you develop intuition, you develop ideas thoughts feelings....

I agree with your whole post- I do think that people are born gay- alot of the time it doesnt show- but yeah i have had gay friends and they have all said that they were gay from day one.

I quoted that particular section of your post, because you said your brain is a sponge and my mum always says that - and i have never heard anyone else say it!!

I agree with FREENERGY2, you are not born gay. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Adam or Eve and Eve. Everyone can argue about this for years.

The bible can be explained in many ways, and the laws in the OT, created for a specific nation on a specific time do not automaticly apply to everyone everywhere.

The best way to find out what God thinks about gay people, is to know what being gay really is, and to find a good way to compare it to something similar.

Freenrgy: when someone is born as a person who stutters what do you tell them?
Do you tell them that Adam did not stutter, and that it's evil to stutter? Do you tell them that God did not make us to stutter and that he should get healed from it by God if he is a "real" christian?
I think this comparison shows exactly what's going on, and if you check your own statements in this light, I hope you see that they become pretty ignorant.

[edit on 22-7-2004 by Jakko]

Just throwing my note into the psalm - were bisexuals born bisexual?

And whats with the fad of being lesbian/bisexual because guys think its cool/hot?

Nice sig Myn ;+)
And yes I think bisexual people are born like that as well.
Just like some people are born with 2 differently colored eyes.

And I guess, Jakko that you think people who decide to have surgery to become a woman instead of a man were born with that thought in their head. Yes people are born with certain physical appearances or defects but your brain is not fully developed when you are born nor can you determine what is right from wrong. Do you think people are born racist, no, they were raised and taught that way.

Well of course, but certain desires, flavours and preferences are not result of the way your brains develop, you're simply born with them.
I think this is the case with being gay.

I guess that is the beauty of this question. I think you are not born that way and firmly believe it. You think people are born that way and believe it. I base my opinion upon on my Christian beliefs and the Bible. I have yet to read or see proof otherwise, only someone else's opinion.

I am a Christian myself, but I really don't see how you can base that kind of opinion on the bible.
It's that kind of reasoning that give a Christians a bad name, using God and the bible as an answer for all misunderstood concepts.

I base my opinion on actual proof.
www.hedweb.com...

Don't be afraid to be wrong, it's that kind of attitude that people will use against you and Christianity in general.

I am using my faith in God and the Bible as the answer because that is what believing in Jesus is about is faith. There are many things that we can't understand and never will. I am also not afraid to be wrong, but I have read scriptures that plainly state that a man laying with another man is wrong, same with women. If it is wrong then why would God create a person from birth to be gay. What gives Chrisitianity a bad name is the people who claim to believe in God and the Bible but only parts of what is written. As a true Christian how could you interpret what scripture says to be different? Would you like me to send you the specific verse of scripture that says it is wrong?

I'm bowing out of this. As I feared, this thread has deteriorated into bad christians vs. eveyone else who is normal and, obvioulsy, has there head screwed on better than mine. I know, I just need Jesus as some sort of crutch to help me through my pathetic existence, right? If I REALLY understood logic, I would see that being gay is o.k., neato and, in fact...cool!

And the fact that sheep are born gay just solidifies that line of reasoning. Yep, right up there with evolution.

You folks can go on believing what you want. As for myself, I believe that if God spoke that this is wrong, then it is wrong. I see no gray in this nor no need to try and convience you all. You cry ignorance to me, but that is exactly what is being spread here. Your remarks to me and others are meant to do nothing more than an attempt to destroy or mock christianity and put God in His place.

You know, I can forgive you for what you say to me, but I also pray that you ask God to forgive you of your complete and utter disregard for Him and what His Son Jesus Christ did for all of you.

May He have mercy on all of your souls.

[edit on 22-7-2004 by Freenrgy2]

Now I don't know if this is true or not... but a sociology teacher I had a couple of years ago talked about this study that someone did. I can't find it anywhere on the net. I would have to look for my old notes for some details. But here's basically what she said:

In gay men there is a part of the brain that is shaped more like it would be in a female. (forgive me I forgot which part of the brain) So for men being gay is not a choice.
(here's where this gets odd) In straight/gay females the brain is the same. They somehow came to the conclusion that females "turn gay" mostly because of bad experiences with men.

Like I said, those aren't my words.... this was said from a college professor. I really wish I could find the study she was referring too.

In my opinion, there is no simple answer for this. Not every gay person is the same... and YES some of them do CHOOSE to be gay/bisexual. (the key word there was some) Some of them don't and ARE born that way.

(I don't necessarily take the bible as 'God's word', but for the sake of this thread...)
The "adam and eve, not adam and steve" argument is ridiculous. God (the real one lol) HAD to put one male and one female in the garden..... why?... so that they could HAVE CHILDREN. Think about it. It wasn't about "love" it was about starting the human race. Just because a man and a woman were placed in the garden doesn't make homosexuality wrong.... it was just a logical thing to do. If it were possibly for people of the same sex to have children together anyone could have been in that garden.

All the people saying "god doesn't want people to be gay, blah, blah, blah".... Trust me... you have no idea what God wants. All you have is a bible that has been corrupted and perverted by the hands of man for thousands of years. I don't think God really cares who you love, as long as you love someone.

Those of you who find homosexuality "repulsive"......
Yes, public displays of affection between people of the same sex CAN be a bit uncomfortable to witness, especially if you disagree with the gay lifestyle. Some things should be kept in the bedroom. However, straight people are guilty of the same displays too. What about obese people who dress as if they're supermodels? What about mullets? Either turn your head, or walk the other way. There are plenty of things that I find repulsive... I avoid it when I can and go about my business.

I happen to work in a town that houses a college which a LOT of gay people attend. The inside joke around here is if you're not gay before you go to that school, you will be within weeks/months of going there. (it's just a joke) I get to observe a lot of gay people at work, though. From my observations I've concluded that society is more accepting of the "feminine gay male" than of the "masculine gay female". Hell, I'm guilty of it myself. There's something about a woman who dresses up like a boy/man that..... I just don't get...
The more feminine gay male will just act a little girly. The voice, mannerisms, stance, etc.
Some of the women go as far as shaving their heads and dressing to look as much as a boy as possible. *shrugs* I'm good at reading people and I've observed atleast 6+ women who are so obviously uncomfortable being dressed the way they are that I don't get WHY they put themselves through it. They just got this "I hate doing this" look written all over there faces. Head bowed... flushed face... looks like they're about to burst into tears at any moment. And other than some obvious stares, (that should be expected) no one is bothering them (no threats, name calling, not even any muffled laughter) . *shrugs*

I just don't get it. However, just because I don't approve of it, doesn't make it "wrong"

Originally posted by delta74dragon
If it is wrong then why would God create a person from birth to be gay.

Very good.
This is the question it is all about.
Denying that people are born gay is not the answer, it is the easy way out.
This time reality is more complicated than you think it is.

And who else was in the garden? That's right SATAN; the prince of the air, the master liar and deciever. God didn't put him there, but he allowed it. Our first test as humans and we blew it. We wanted knowledge of good and evil right off the bat. Ever since, we've toyed with evil things.

Originally posted by delta74dragon
I am also not afraid to be wrong, but I have read scriptures that plainly state that a man laying with another man is wrong, same with women.

Hmm... I could be wrong, but according to the bible, aren't we supposed to only have sex for the purpose of procreation? It may differ depending on the way you practice your faith... but I've heard priests ranting and raving about how the use of birth control is a "sin".

That would be the same reason that masturbation is a "sin"???? Because sex is not supposed to be for pleasure.... just to procreate? If that's true than all of the straight people having recreational sex are just as much sinners and the gays.




(I had a discussion with my sunday school teacher about this a long long time ago... Kept using the word 'reproduce' and he's like: WE ARE NOT RABBITS THE TERM IS PROCREATE! I know that was off topic.... but it still makes me laugh to this day. )

I must not be following you. What I was trying to point out here is that the Bible says it is wrong for a guy to be with a guy and a woman to be with a woman. I wasn't talking about recreational sex or procreation.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
And who else was in the garden? That's right SATAN; the prince of the air, the master liar and deciever. God didn't put him there, but he allowed it. Our first test as humans and we blew it. We wanted knowledge of good and evil right off the bat. Ever since, we've toyed with evil things.

I really, really, really don't want to start some religious debate here. But:

And who created Satan? God is all-knowing, all-seeing, etc. God created Lucifer, the Angel of Light (or whatever) with full knowledge that he would turn out to be evil. Hence, God is the one responsible for all the evil in the world. (my opinion)
God did not have to test Adam and Eve.... he should have already known that they would fail. He set them up to fail. *waits patiently for the "free will" argument*

Freenrgy2, you may have missed my questions I asked you on page 1.
I just wanted you to clarify some statements you made earlier.

Originally posted by delta74dragon
I must not be following you. What I was trying to point out here is that the Bible says it is wrong for a guy to be with a guy and a woman to be with a woman. I wasn't talking about recreational sex or procreation.

I know, I know.... but I was thinking that the reason the bible may say that is because of the procreation thing. In that case straight people would be considered just as bad as gays, because they'd be commiting the same sin.

Not to long ago I befriended a whole slew of lesbians all at once....no offense, but they tend to come in gaggles - I wish I could meet and become friends with a "gaggle" of straight women just as easily - lol

But anyways, one's a fire-fighter and kind of the butch of the group and the rest run the whole gammat of what we all assume lesbians to be - but they are still people, and their friendships with me are not something I would trade for a dozen more friendships with straight people....

I've asked them why they go the other way, played around jokingly with their sexuality and I've found that they are all open to me and candid with their lifestyle in a way that few other people are....I think from my experiences with them that being gay is both genetic and a personal choice. Some of them are bi....which instantly translates in most people's minds as "sex-fiend"......but that's not the case here - they're confused....lacking a firm foundation....have children from previous marriages...and its sad to see people generalize a group of people into one stereotype.

I also have quite a range of gay male friends - I find many of them to be far further on the edge of exploration and dangerous activities - many of them do hard drugs, but I've known the opposite type too

What I'm getting at here is that they all fall into an adapted personality of their straight alter-ego.....If they had been straight, this would be where they are in life but with a different sexual orientation - sure some things like our sexual partners influence our descsion making, but that happens in all forms of relationships - perhaps b/c some people feel unaccepted as a group and individual they feel more pressed to be on the fringe of society, and it is those few who give gays a bad image....

I think enough science stands in the way to proove that being gay is primarily about how your brain functions, just the same as being straight....it's like seeing the world through a different filter - some people adapt and others are born with it