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Is being gay a choice/lifestyle?

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posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 01:55 PM
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[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]




posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV
There is a whole lot more in the bible about NOT lusting after others, not lying, stealing, etc...than there is about homosexuality...but I bet you still do it don't you? What about looking at porn on your computer? How many in this thread do that? How many of you watch adult movies, fantasize about two woman together....make remarks about actresses or movie stars, how many have had an affair?...cut the crap....if your gonna spout bible to condemn a set of people...then hold those same holier than thou standards to yourself...


The above it NOT the first time I have asked this question, and each time it is skitted over by those on this thread acting so holier than thou.....



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 04:45 PM
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I was just wondering if Jakko could clarify, are you talking about a CONSCIOUS or SUBCONSCIOUS choice? There is a big difference. Also, you ever find that gay gene I asked about?



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 04:48 PM
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I do not think this has anything to do with conscious or not.
I think this is about primal desires, like hunger and thirst.

Being hungry is not a choice, eating is.
As for that gene, your question was pretty ignorant so I chose not to respond on it.
If you really want to find out how being gay works in relation to genes, I suggest you use google and find out what scientist have to say about it.
Decreasing that ignorance is actually pretty simple.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 04:59 PM
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I seriously hope you aren't calling me ignorant. You haven't even answered my question about conscious or subconscious. Those "primal desires" you talk of are subconscious as well IMO.

I wonder, did you do a search on google about what you are talking about, because I did, and guess what I found:

National Association of Therapy and Research on Homosexuality



Many laymen now believe that homosexuality is part of who a person really is from the moment of conception.

The "genetic and unchangeable" theory has been actively promoted by gay activists and the popular media. Is homosexuality really an inborn and normal variant of human nature?

No. There is no evidence that shows that homosexuality is simply "genetic." And none of the research claims there is. Only the press and certain researchers do, when speaking in sound bites to the public.

www.narth.com...

I really do hope you read what they are about before you decide to bash them even though I don't totally agree with everything they say.



Would the clone of a gay man also be gay, and if he was, what would that tell us about homosexuality? Not very much. There are already plenty of kids out there whose biological parents are both gay. Some of these kids grow up to be gay, many of them do not. Simply producing a genetic copy of a gay man does not tell us anything about the cultural, social and environmental influences on sexuality. The vast majority of traits, including physical ones, are influenced by multiple genes, and by environmental and social factors.

www.genetics-and-society.org...

I mean, I could quote more, but everything I read is contrary to your assertion.

I know you feel you are right, but that doesn't make everyone who disagrees with you "ignorant." All I see is someone trying to seperate the homsexuals from society in the opposite way. You know how you hate those who don't like gays, well, in my opinion your coming off as very close. You love them so much (and it really does seem you have a stigma against straight people) that you want to make them seem like a special people.

But they aren't...we are all just people who make decisions whether they consciously make them or subconsciously. As far as genes, everyone knows they turn on or off at the drop of a hat.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:01 PM
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You surely know how to pick the most retarded url's.
Gay couples with children?
heh

How about serious sites about experiments and certified scientists talking.
Care to search those?



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Ah, I could of guessed Jakko. Why don't you tell me where your scientific information comes from? Here's something from PBS that might help your case:

www.pbs.org...



Hamer's paper-- "A Linkage Between DNA Markers on the X Chromosome and Male Sexual Orientation"-- had the modest ring of science, where change is often slow and incremental. But the underlying idea seemed to carry enormous implications: Homosexuality was not a choice--"the wrong choice," as many religious and political leaders have demogogued on the issue. Instead, homosexuality was as much a biological fact as eye color.

Though the outcome of the "gay gene" debate is uncertain, the very fact of the debate is evidence of great change: The prevailing scientific view of the fundamental nature of homosexuality has undergone a signficant evolution in the last several decades


Followed by:


There is a difference between demonstrating a correlation between two things, and proving a causal relationship between them. This, in essence, is William Byne's thoughtful critique of the research of Hamer, LeVay, and others who have found certain neuroanatomical or genetic traits that may correlate with, but, he believes, likely do not cause, homosexuality. "Researchers and the public must resist the temptation to consider [these biological theories of homosexuality] in any but the most tentative fashion," Byne concludes. "Perhaps more important, we should also be asking ourselves why we as a society are so emotionally invested in this research." Byne also questions the link between biology and public policy: "At the political level, a requirement that an unconventional trait be inborn or immutable is an inhumane criterion for a society to use in deciding which of its nonconformists it will grant tolerance."


I don't think you can call me ignorant for taking a side in this debate because you have done the same!!!



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:10 PM
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ignorant is not ment insulting in this case.
You are just not aware of reality yet, and that's okay.
You're open to different ideas and you can discuss in a mature way, unlike many others.

www.abc.net.au...



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:15 PM
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Alright, those are rams, I'd much rather see the original research talking about humans. And too take this to a deeper level, I believe that we create our ourselves with our mind.

Like in the matrix where Morpheus talks about residual self-image. What we believe we look like, we become...physically. And I think the big problem with this debate is that we are trying to seperate body and mind, but I think they are a lot more connected than we are lead to believe.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:17 PM
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Interesting thought, but it complicates this discussion even more, even though there is no proof to suggest mind and body are linked that closely.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:17 PM
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Jakko: Will you ever understand, that others can have their own viewpoint, even if it cannot be backed up? The science is not so advanced to prove that homosexuality is right, or wrong. But there are theories, that will be backed up, as possible.

Currently, homosexuality is treated as a choice, and it will remain that way as long as it is not proven, that it is an illness.

That sheep experiment cannot be compared to humans, because we breed differently, they are animals. We are humans.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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Your reasoning makes no sense Istvan.
You read what you want to read, your mind is not open.
I allready said I do not apreciate talking to you.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:23 PM
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Currently, homosexuality is treated as a choice, and it will remain that way as long as it is not proven, that it is an illness


An illness?!?!?! Why would you say that?

Is it an illness to have sex with a condom, after all you are not reproducing?

And how well would this world function if everytime someone had sex, they had a baby?

I don't think you understand how homosexuality functions in the overall scheme of things. Think about it.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:25 PM
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Jakko: I do not "believe" in straight people, nor gays.

But gays could not come up with any reasonable answer, why they are gays. This clearly means: nothing at all.

I don't mean, that they have to answer anything, as it is their own life. If they get any insult from the community, they should bear that, or change that lifestyle.

Once the gays can answer why do they have this kind of lifestyle, I am sure, they will be treated much better. It could alse help the scientists to be a bit honest.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn
An illness?!?!?! Why would you say that?

Is it an illness to have sex with a condom, after all you are not reproducing?

And how well would this world function if everytime someone had sex, they had a baby?

I don't think you understand how homosexuality functions in the overall scheme of things. Think about it.


I am not claiming that homosexuality is an illness, but some others really think that, starting with the sheep experiment.

My opinion remains the same: homosexuality is a choice, from the start someone goes in bed with the same gender. Homosexual behaviour may not be a choice, but it has nothing to do with sex.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:33 PM
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Once the gays can answer why do they have this kind of lifestyle, I am sure, they will be treated much better. It could alse help the scientists to be a bit honest.


Alright, riddle me this: Why are you attracted to men/women?

Honestly, I really don't know what you expect homsexuals to say.



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:33 PM
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Double post

[edit on 15-8-2004 by Jamuhn]



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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I have posted before, but I write it again:

When I was young, I was not attracted to men/women. From the age of 13 I started to be interested in sexuality (again not in women or men). and from then on, I was watching the behaviour of others, the big guys, how they flirt with women. I was taught to the right thing, that girls are girls, and boys are boys.

To me, the way to deal with women was learnt, it has nothing to do with genetics. On the other hand, I saw 10 year old classmates turning into sexual maniacs on pornography, fortunately I didn't take the chance to grow up on pornography.

Perhaps I am wrong, but there is a lot a child must learn before he/she attempts to have sex with any gender.

What I want to hear from homosexuals first: what is their problem with the opposite gender?



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by Istvan
.

What I want to hear from homosexuals first: what is their problem with the opposite gender?

Homosexuals are NOT attracted to those of their own kind....they don't get that "attracted feeling" by looking at the opposite sex, but by looking at the same sex. You know, you look at a woman (I'm assuming your male here) and you get a sexual attraction, they don't feel that towards the opposite sex...I thought that was obvious and plain to everyone...that's why they're gay



posted on Aug, 15 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Ok, I believe my sexuality was fundamentally predetermined at birth, that's the conclusion I came to due to my own life experiences and nothing yet has changed my mind about that.

But even if I'm wrong, even if my sexual leanings are a combination of many things, environment, experience, nurture etc, some people here seem to fail to grasp that the effect of this is so profoundly entrenched within my own psyche that to dismiss it with the claim of 'you made your choice' is facetious in the extreme, it's still didn't make it my choice because I never asked for nor sought it out, it came to me and never left. I believe some of the 'pro choice' debaters need to keep this argument alive in a skewed bid to justify their own bigotry and intolerance. if you have a problem with it, fine I can live with that, and you'll have to learn to live with me, just be honest about your motives.

And finally even if it came down to me consciously choosing to be gay over straight, big deal, Im an adult and it's a free country (so far). I shouldn't need to justify my decisions to anyone but those I'm involved with.



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