Is being gay a choice/lifestyle?

You are wrong. You just can't do anything you want, because the population has a reaction to that. e.g.: if you want to walk on the street in pink pijama, perhaps most people think, you have gone nuts. If you go along with your boyfriend hand in hand, most people think something different, but surely nothing good.

People can be gay if they want to, but most people won't like that, because it is not normal.

Now don't tell me, that six billion humans are wrong about the homophilia, and only you know that it is right...

Originally posted by Istvan
You are wrong. You just can't do anything you want, because the population has a reaction to that. e.g.: if you want to walk on the street in pink pijama, perhaps most people think, you have gone nuts. If you go along with your boyfriend hand in hand, most people think something different, but surely nothing good.

People can be gay if they want to, but most people won't like that, because it is not normal.

Now don't tell me, that six billion humans are wrong about the homophilia, and only you know that it is right...

Not all people care what someone else thinks of him/her...
If they would kill me for being me...so be it...
Allot of my family thinks im crazy because I believe in aliens...that doesnt make me crazy......I do not think they are crazy because they think they are the kings of the universe, the superiour race...they just do not have the same level of awareness or even IQ...

Who are you, or who are they to say that someone with different feelings then you is NOT normal???
[edit on 13-8-2004 by Italiano]

[edit on 13-8-2004 by Italiano]

Adoptation is the key to be part of a community. If someone is unable for that, he will not be able to be part of that community. Those people, who don't care what others think, may see a false image of the people around him, and hust can't realize, that noone likes him. It is a bad feeling, if you find out that those people who theoritically liked you, actually discuss things abouz you behind you.

And there isn't hell of a large community of gays, where gays could be what they are...

Originally posted by Istvan
Adoptation is the key to be part of a community. If someone is unable for that, he will not be able to be part of that community. Those people, who don't care what others think, may see a false image of the people around him, and hust can't realize, that noone likes him. It is a bad feeling, if you find out that those people who theoritically liked you, actually discuss things abouz you behind you.

And there isn't hell of a large community of gays, where gays could be what they are...

Well..then you can consider me as NOT a part of your community...I will not be one of the controlled ones...Why should I care if people talk sh*t behind my back??? That is an isshue for those that talk that sh*t, it is for sure no problem with me...

You have not experienced such thing before, that is why you don't care about that. Gays experience it through their everyday life, and sure, they don't like it very much. It is no use to compare that to the belief in UFOs, because it is very different. Just try to go over a main street with a male hand in hand, and you can see the reaction of people. . .

Originally posted by Istvan
You have not experienced such thing before, that is why you don't care about that. Gays experience it through their everyday life, and sure, they don't like it very much. It is no use to compare that to the belief in UFOs, because it is very different. Just try to go over a main street with a male hand in hand, and you can see the reaction of people. . .

I have no idea where you live but in europe its not a BIG deal being gay...
But, then again...Why care about the reactions about other people???
They are stuck with it, not the gay...
Of course...you have people that are more sencetive then others...
But you NEVER must feel ashamed for who you are or what you know/believe.

I think, being gay is a bigger isshue in the states then elsewhere...In belgium or italy or holland gay copples are getting merried everyday...I know that because my uncle is gay and merried a copple months ago...

[edit on 13-8-2004 by Italiano]

Probably both sides of the issue are correct. Some people are probably
born gay, and some have some kind of learned behavoir or trama
happen that causes a disfunction of what would have been a heterosexual
lifestyle.

What's most important is that an individual can not control the proces making him either gay or straight, either as an embryo or as a child.
So it can never be a choice.

Note that this applies to being gay, not to having any kind of sex.

Originally posted by Jakko
What's most important is that an individual can not control the proces making him either gay or straight, either as an embryo or as a child.
So it can never be a choice.

Note that this applies to being gay, not to having any kind of sex.

Now who has proved that ? Noone. Therefore, unless the homophilia is being proved as an uncontrollable defect of the evolution, it will be considered as other sexual desire of the mind, it is only a choice whether you have sex with a dog, or the same gender.

Up to date, homosexuality is only a decision, this is the reason why most people regret this sexual activity. People never talk about the zoophilia, because many do it at home, at the street you see nothing about it. But gays are together, like gf and bf, to many others it is annoying...

We'll see what the future holds, one day we may see women vanishing and gays may rule the world... who knows?

Istvan you truly do not understand the difference between desire to have sex and actual sex and the way these concepts are linked.
This discussion is pointless if you don't even understand this.

Well, then we may start at the beginning?

Homophilia is sexual desire. A homosexual has active gay relationship, a bisexual has both. Anyone with homosexual behaviour may not necessarily have gay relationship, he can still be straight.

It is another question, if a gay currently doesn't have a partner, he still remains gay.

All this above is the case with other philia, there is no difference, only more rare. It would be cool to see the comments of a zoophiliac, too.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
My brother is gay and I never saw it growing up. My mother was a big proponent of him being born that way. Me, I think it is an excuse not to accept personal responsibility. You see, when the questions get too tough or too personal then we go into defense mode and it must be someone else's fault. What better excuse to say that you are born this way.
Everywhere I look it's gay; t.v., movies, parades, lawsuits, marriage (yuck!). Why such an agenda to brainwash/desensitize as many as you can? And remeber the truth that we (as in christian/striaght folks) have be tolerant of your beliefs but that you don't have to return the favor. If a gay is talked about, it's a "hate crime". If somebody scrawls "Satan Rules" on the side of a Christian bus, then it isn't. Go figure. I would be that had that been a gay pride bus and someone wrote something like "Christ lives" on the side, that the perpetrators would have been hunted down, the ACLU would have taken the case and those individuals lives would have been ruined. But if it happens to someone who is straight or a christian, then absolutely nothing would be done about it. Guess this is fair, don't ya think?
[edit on 22-7-2004 by Freenrgy2]

Hello, Freenrgy,

I didn't quote all of this because it's such a long quote, so please don't be upset that I took some things out. The Scriptures are clearly against homosexual lifestyles just like they are having sex with animals, fornicators, having sex with one's mother or father, aunt, sister-in-law, brother-in-law, etc. These are called "porneia" in the Greek (see Acts 15:20).

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols (means idol sacrifices of any kind, in which some holidays fall into this category), and from fornication (porneia; sexual misconduct and perversions), and from things strangled, and from blood.(these last two things go hand in hand)

Unfortunatly porneia is translated as just fornication, but it more precisely means "sexual misconduct; sexual crimes; perversions" in any way, shape or form. Yes, there is a list in the OT which lists the various forms of sexual misconduct. It is still the same as it's ever been and never changed. Many of these forms of sexual misconduct are an abomination to almighty Yahweh. He is serious about these, and there are very deep reasons why. He's as serious about these things as he is about those following and practicing astrology, various forms of divination, trans-channeling, etc., but I won't go into this at this present time.

Anyone can repent of the various forms of sexual misconduct, however, some forms that people have "practiced" seem to be difficult for them to change for some reason or another. I guess having sex with animals might be one thing, or pedophilia seems to be a difficult one. It doesn't mean that they can't repent. Just take pedophilia, for example, you don't hear about pedophiles changing much.

But Saul (Paul) shows in Rom. that people do repent of homosexual acts, and I'm sure they can of various forms of perversions. To repent means to turn from the act in all seriousness, change, realize what you've done and ask for forgiveness. Yahweh shows great mercy for all of us and has patience.

Our whole world is "sick." I'm speaking of the whole here and not various individuals. We need a great healing in our ruach (translated as spirit) and our minds. There is so much media and hollywood pushing homosexual and same-sex marriage, making it sound like a human rights thing -- it isn't -- they have many people believing this is a normal lifestyle, and it's not! It's an illness that this great nation and the world needs to repent from in a big way, and not the only illness; otherwise, it's going to be bad news. It will be and for those who mock this fact will realize it soon enough. BTW, I have heard people who mock this saying, "Well, he hasn't struck me dead yet!"

Well, Yahweh is patient like I said. They are very fortunate that he is. The sad fact is that everyone will die the first death at least, and they will be no exception. And the very character they die with is the one that they'll bring back in the resurrection. So if they don't develop a repentent nature, it will be hard for them during the judgment period.

Yahweh could have destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah a long time before they got so terribly perverted and sick, but he waited. Some might should learn from this and take it to heart.

Tiza

Originally posted by Jakko
Let's not forget that there are a lot of christian people who are homosexual. It's not a gay people vs christian people thing.
Christianity surely did damage to gay people in the past, but if it would not have been christianity, people would have found another way to act out their ignorance.

Again, what if gay people are born like this? What if it would be proven?
Should such discoveries lead to changes in law? Should such knowledge be taught to children at school?

Hello, Jakko:

I came on to write something else, and your post kind of reminded me. It's about the so-called "shepherds," meaning religious leaders. They are at fault too. Why? Because for a very long time, and many are still this way, they do not lead the sheep. As a matter of fact, they have caused many sheep to go their own way and scattered them.

It's the responsibility of a shepherd to tend to his sheep. They are responsible to lead the sheep into the truth of the Scriptures, which is a neverending journey and learning process, and many have failed at this and are still failing. They are not leading in truthfullness. Many are still teaching lies because to be 100 percent honest, they enjoy the various lies that they teach. I could name a list, but a lot of people would be screaming here.

Perhaps some are more concerned with being patted on the back, have the best seats at dinners, enjoy the power, etc. There are many reasons. Some are simply honest and wish to do good, but do not understand that their job is to constantly seek and teach the truth to the sheep. The sheep must be fed truth, otherwise they will stray. And I'm talking people here, Jakko, when I speak the word "sheep." This has gone on for a long, long time.

Also, the shepherds are punished more than the sheep, although the sheep will also be punished because they allowed this, just not as seriously. The sheep have become co-dependent on false shepherds and allow them to push the lies and have for years.

BTW, Jakko, no one is born "gay." This is a taught lifestyle. All children are really asexual, start out that way. It helps if these children have good role models. The father figure is extremely important in all this. He must be a loving and caring man, show disciplin while at the same time being loving and caring and in a leadership role. Sad to say that many fathers have failed. So have mothers. Some mothers have been too overbearing. The role models are all messed up nowadays in many cases. Normally, let's say, a woman is caring for her son and she's the only parent, usually a woman cannot really control them. They need the male role model in a very bad way when males reach a certain age group. It's just this way. Not in all cases, but it is in many cases.

I'm not condeming for anyone for practicing homosexuality. I can tell you what the Scriptures say, and I can say that I'm against it because it is a sin like other sins, for example, adultery and murder. There's no other way around it. But it's not my goal to condemn anyone. That's between Yahweh and themselves. Everyone is responsible for their own salvation.

Tiza

Originally posted by Jakko
I thought it would be interesting to investigate how many ATS members still think that being gay is a choice/lifestyle, rather than a way of being born.

What surprises me in discussions about gay-marriage/adoption is that noones talks about what being gay really is.
It's not strange that peoples opinions will differ greatly, when half of the people does not even know what we're talking about.

So for everyone to answer.

Do you think that being gay is a choice/lifestyle or a way of being born?

[edit on 22-7-2004 by Jakko]

Hi, Jakko:

I forgot to say this. Only Yahweh can know a person's mind. See, in the English they have the word "heart," but in the Hebrew, which is truer because it's the underlying meaning, it's called "leb." Well, "leb" means like saying "mind; mental heart." So it's not talking about that little ticker in our chests albeit but a few instances. It's talking about our minds.

So what I'm saying, Jakko, is this: A person can seem to be by all appearances like a "saint," although they may be harboring evil in their minds the whole time. They may even live their entire life this way where people think that they're so good, etc. How would anyone know what's in a person's leb (mind)? We don't, but Yahweh knows.

Then you can have the person, say, a prostitute who repents and thinks they're the worst sinner in the whole world, but yet they have the correct nature because they realize their sins and are repenting from them, begging mercy.

Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector in the NT? Back in the days of Yahushua the messiah, the tax collector was thought of extremely badly. But this tax collector was standing, begging and beating upon his chest and praying and crying before Yahweh, saying, father, forgive me, I'm an awful sinner, wouldn't even look up, etc. This is just a paraphrase here.

The Pharisee said, thank you that I'm not like that tax collector standing there. I've done this good, that good, etc.

Now, who would have been justified in Yahweh's eyes, the tax collector or the Pharisee?

Answer: The tax collector was justified before Yahweh. He realized what he was and that he was a sinner and was repentent as all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of Yahweh.

The Pharisee, on the other hand, was a sinner, too, but he just thought he was good. That was his huge mistake. For the Pharisee to make it in Yahweh's kingdom, which will be upon the earth, he will have to take the tax collector's character and repent and become like him in his nature.

The fact is, Jakko, that many from Sodom and Gomorrah will stand in the resurrection and become justified before those who had Yahushua walking around with them while he was in the flesh upon the earth. When Yahushua was here on the earth, those that he went to had a chance to hear; those in Sodom and Gomorrah didn't have a chance to hear. Those who had the chance in Judea and in Israel, many hardened their minds against hearing like the Pharisee. It will be more difficult for them.

Tiza

As I have said before it is a choice, no scientific evidence which is major supports the fact that it is genetically inherited. A person chooses to be gay of their own will.

When you get down to the nitty gritty of it...who cares? It's no one else's business!!!! It doesn't hurt you or me, and that ridiculous "religion crap doesn't fly either....if your a good "Christian" your supposed to forgive and NOT judge others because YOUR NOT god!

Originally posted by LadyV
When you get down to the nitty gritty of it...who cares? It's no one else's business!!!! It doesn't hurt you or me, and that ridiculous "religion crap doesn't fly either....if your a good "Christian" your supposed to forgive and NOT judge others because YOUR NOT god!

Yes but God has said not to let sinners go unpunished. If someone commits a murder that person shall be executed. It is better to let some go than for all to commit crimes such as this. The Bible and the Koran are teachings meant to guide and follow life in a meaningfull correct path (terrorists are an example of those doing it incorrectly). Thats why there are religious leaders like priests and Imams. It is FOR GUIDANCE, or those who do not follow shall perish. That is why parents discipline thier kids, do you expect God to praise you for raising bad kids? He expects you to discipline and guide others to the right path.

[edit on 13-8-2004 by TACHYON]

You've got to be kidding me! You can't prove any of that is true!! You can't! I can prove that because of hard nosed, overly religious people that (I'm not saying you or anyone specific) many humans have been hounded and ridiculed to the point of taking their life, or left with emotional scares for life....it doesn't matter if you do believe it's Gods word...does that make you the executioner of said "word"...how holier than thou!

Originally posted by LadyV

You've got to be kidding me! You can't prove any of that is true!! You can't! I can prove that because of hard nosed, overly religious people that (I'm not saying you or anyone specific) many humans have been hounded and ridiculed to the point of taking their life, or left with emotional scares for life....it doesn't matter if you do believe it's Gods word...does that make you the executioner of said "word"...how holier than thou!

So you are saying if your kid is gay you will let them be? What if he was commiting a crime? You would not discipline them? You would probably use no proof as an excuse not to guide.

If any of my children were to be gay, I would accept it.....I love them, I want them to be happy...why would I make their life miserable by constantly hounding them over something that is not their choice....as to commenting a crime...nothing my kids could do would ever make me not love them....if they raped and murdered....I would be devastated, I would agree with their punishment, whatever that may be....I would not like them very much...but I would still love them.