Divide New York Into Two States?

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posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 10:12 PM
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ALBANY -- It's a debate that has raged for decades: Should New York become two states? And once again, some state lawmakers have introduced a bill that would allow counties to hold a referendum on whether the state should be separated into upstate and downstate. The measure has gone nowhere in the Legislature and most likely never will, but Sen. Joseph Robach, R-Greece, Monroe County, and Assemblyman Stephen Hawley, R-Batavia, Genesee County, have submitted it again this year, saying the idea is something that voters should be allowed to weigh in on. The bill has made its way onto the Assembly Local Governments Committee agenda on Tuesday. "It's an interesting scenario. I think people ought to have a chance to take a look at it," Hawley said. While the bill doesn't indicate where upstate would begin, Hawley said he would characterize it as anything north of Westchester County. The bill would allow a county legislature to decide whether to hold a referendum before the end of 2012 to ask voters: "Do you support the division of New York into two separate states?" The results would be non-binding and the measure would then face a host of other likely insurmountable obstacles. The state Legislature would have to approve it, and then it would require an act of Congress to make upstate its own state. Upstate leaders have long complained that downstate officials treat them unfairly. The issue became more pronounced the last two years when Democrats from New York City controlled all state government. But Republicans regained control of the Senate this year, and most of their members are from Long Island and upstate. Robach, now back in the majority, said the issue is still worth investigating, saying upstate might be able to do well if it had its own leadership. "I think the policies on job creation, taxes, everything, would be very different and certainly worth looking at," said Robach, who said he is also pushing a bill that would allow the public to put a whole host of measures on the ballot. Senate Democrats knocked Republicans for having misplaced priorities. "In these difficult fiscal times, we should be focused on unifying New York to solve its problems, not tearing it apart," said Austin Shafran, spokesman for the Senate Democratic Conference. Studies have shown that upstate would struggle without New York City's revenue. A report from the Rochester-based Center For Governmental Research in 2004 found that New York City's net contribution to the rest of the state was $11 billion and as much as $2.5 billion from the Hudson Valley. But Robach and Hawley said those numbers may not be applicable now because of the struggles on Wall Street. Hawley said he has reached out to local colleges to see if they would be interested in studying the issue. The upstate-downstate divide is also a sensitive one. Just last week, Buffalo officials blasted New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg after he said Buffalo has a lot of "free space ... if you want to go there. I don't think you do." He later apologized to Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown.

www.wgrz.com...

Myself being far removed from New York City area have been saying and thinking this for years as well as people from my area. Might be a little to late for this topic to be brought back up again as most have now left this state because of being fed up with the nonsense. Me and my family are not far behind that crowd, just waiting a little longer before we check out. And it is a shame because this state has a lot of beautiful sites and such to offer but the whole downstate area has sapped the money and life out of the rest of the state for too long now. But even when I leave NY I will be happy to see this come to fruition for the people I leave behind. It's time to cut the big city loose and the politicians that go with it. Anyone else from NY feel the same?




posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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How about as many as the corporate and the religious world see fit, then we could segregate everyone, have an area for the white collars and the blue collars and then have the Christian white collars and then the blue collars then have it the same for the other religious denominations. Harmony at last...that mosque sure divided a lot of people.

I'm Australian.
edit on 21-3-2011 by Sounds_of_Silence because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 10:32 PM
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Yeah I feel you entirely there not to mention up here we get all the negative traffic and rif raff that are runnin from the city I'm right by lake george and can tell you its getting pretty #ty no jobs an increase in crime I almost got robbed for 8$ in a gas station parking lot by 2 guys from the city runnin from the cops. Its sad because I love new york we get all seasons like it or hate it we have the beautiful adirondacks . and I too am considering getting the # outta here. Hmmm I'm only 30 mins from vermont



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


I totally agree, being in Niagara Falls, and originally from Cheektowaga, I would whole heartedly vote to separate from NYC....not that I don't like it, but having a military background, I'd say that being in "command of" a large number of people and a small number of people are totally different. And what works for a large group wouldn't necessarily work for a smaller number and vice versa. So what should we call the new state? North New York? North York?, something all together different?



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


Great question posed, OP, and one about which I'm pretty well torn. Would make sense for several reasons but that's a tough pill to swallow. Born, raised and lived in NY state my entire life (childhood in Manhattan and then college in upstate near Ithaca). I've visited and enjoyed every different part of the state at one time of the other from the very bottom to the very top and take pride in the beauty of its diversity. The differences are amazing and IMHO, it's a big part of what makes it such a great and unique state. Splitting it would feel like a betrayal to many native New Yorkers. It wouldn't be the same chopped into pieces and whereas I agree that it would probably make sense given the uniqueness of the business environment - with the financial district being more or less the global control center for so much of the world's econmy - as part of the voting public, I feel that the time such a division is long passed and it's up to the state legislature to find an appropriate and equitable budetary distribution that has checks, balances and limits like everything else. Bloomberg's comments about Buffalo were totally and naively inapporpriate and Buffalo happens to be a city that's currently experiencing a huge increase in small businesses growth. It's a progressive community utilizing many of the green technologies we should all be focusing on instead of the "old ways" which are killing our world. Bloomberg and other state officials will be eating their words in the years to come as many of the "elitists" from NYC slowly make their way up North to avail themselves of the space and way of life. Just one person's opinion but that of a true native New Yorker.



posted on Mar, 21 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
How about as many as the corporate and the religious world see fit, then we could segregate everyone, have an area for the white collars and the blue collars and then have the Christian white collars and then the blue collars then have it the same for the other religious denominations. Harmony at last...that mosque sure divided a lot of people.

I'm Australian.
edit on 21-3-2011 by Sounds_of_Silence because: (no reason given)


I am sorry but I am not following you here? This has nothing to do with the mosque situation. This is about the city of New York like Manhattan and such draining upstate NY and funneling all the jobs etc down there. Also about us people in upstate NY always getting shafted by the politicians from NYC that run the state and certainly don't represent us up here.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by timidgal
 


I gotta tell you the time that I have spent down in Westchester co and Yonkers, Brooklyn and all surrounding areas including Long Island was great. There is a certain beauty in that area all of its own and for the most part the people I delt with were awesome. I just wish politics could be set aside and a better redistribution of the state taxes could be worked out for the betterment of all of NY. But as long as the ways of the past are repeated we will never see the potential that could be. And if thats the way it is to continue then perhaps it's time to cut up the map.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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Yea I'm from just outside of Albany and it is kinda of funny the types we get from NYC. Splitting NYC from the rest and give it to Bloomberg as his own little fiefdom. He already treats it that way, except on weekends
What is actually kinda of funny is that in NY you can see how crooked politicians are
and it is not a one party thing either.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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I'm from upstate NY (south of syracuse) and there are a lot of differences between upstate and NYC.

When doing taxes you have to answer all these questions about if you have lived or worked in any of the boroughs of NYC. Also, I hate when I tell people I live in New York and they automatically think I mean the city, haha.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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reply to post by hangedman13
 


Aint that the truth they don't even hide it, and the public keeps voting in the same idiots (both sides).



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


The sad fact is that it goes up the food chain, local all the way to our national. I grew up in the town of Rotterdam and some of BS that was gotten away with by a local politician/teacher was appalling. He was protected by the local police department and it wasn't till he got himself in trouble doing the same crap in another town that he was finally arrested. The worst part was it was pretty common knowledge in the town,



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


And that's one of the many reasons why I love exchanging ideas on this site. Thought provoking perspectives that force me to look at things from a different point of view and outside my own frame of reference. I guess I'm still somewhat of an idealist in thinking that people will ultimately do what is "right" but that is unfortunately not the world we live in and I depend on this type of exchange to keep me grounded in reality. The bottom line is that politics ranks within the top two most corrupt industries in the world and when the system is so imbalanced and too far gone to be fixed, it's time to let selfish perspectives go and start living by what you preach. Thanks for the reminder.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:55 AM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


Hiya,
I was born and raised in the inner city of Buffalo and I hafta tell ya while it would be bitter sweet I think that may be a good idea. I am one of those many that left the state, I have been gone 2 years now. Buffalo had become so crime and poverty riddled I had to get out. There is basically no job options there aside from McDonalds. Politician after politcian has repeatedly promised more jobs to upstate and western Ny without any such thing ever happening. I have heard many people complain how nyc takes everything away from the rest of the state and we get nothing in return. Nyc has a huge population and I'm sure they can sustain themselves while allowing the rest of the state to tend to their own needs that often get over looked or neglected. I do miss my hometown, especially the people and food... so if anyone in the area can fed ex me some La Nova's or even Casa Di Pizza I'd be your best friend lol.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by jaynkeel

It's time to cut the big city loose and the politicians that go with it. Anyone else from NY feel the same?


Yep.
Absolutely,



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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They don't want a vote because if there was all that money that NYC leeches from the coffers from the little city's will disappear.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by sterlingmoon
 


How about some nice Costanza rolls!!! I fully agree there will be things food wise I would absolutely miss, but year round warmth and sunshine is a better deal in my opinion. Oh and far less taxes.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by jaynkeel
reply to post by sterlingmoon
 


How about some nice Costanza rolls!!! I fully agree there will be things food wise I would absolutely miss, but year round warmth and sunshine is a better deal in my opinion. Oh and far less taxes.


Warmth and sunshine??? I got cheated... I did not even get that... that will teach me only moving one state away lol.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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Well.. to a certain degree probably every state would like to divide away and ditch the large urban areas that are like a cancerous growth. Urban areas have high crime, terrible education statistics, high use of govt handout programs, etc.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by jaynkeel
 


This is an issue in a number of states, Washington and California where from a geographic perspective the state is relatively rural and conservative yet run by the liberal cities.

In Washington, Eastern Washington has long been talkling about splitting away from Washington and essentially becoming a part of Idaho, a state that has similar political sensitivies. Even in King County, the county that Seattle is in there has been a movement for years to split what they call rural King county away from the rest of the county.

The fact is that the urban centers have the populations and the political and get the vast majority of tax payer dollars invested in thier area. Folks in Eastern Washington have long felt that they don't have a seat at the table and totally inadequate representation. The are tired of the corrpution and the pressure groups influencing the government.

There is no fix to the solution. These states won't be broken up. What will happen is that folks will just leave the state, something that is happening in droves in all of these states that are heavily run by urban centers and in doing so neglect large areas of the state.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 07:28 PM
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reply to post by dolphinfan
 


For some reason I am not surprised this is a problem thruought the country. Just goes to show you put garbage in you get garbage out. I understand every state,town,city has it's share of problems but the corruption and waste needs to stop.





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