A Christian's Apology to Everyone

reply to post by PronoEast


A Christian apology to everyone? The only apology I read was:
"I would like to personally apologize to anyone that has ever received a response from a Christian with hate or obvious personal attacks. That’s not what I stand for and it isn’t what Christianity is all about."

The rest of you post is just more Christian rationalization of mythical beliefs.

This is soooo arrogant on so many levels. I don't accept your apology or your flagrant attempt to witness to us non Christians under the guise of being better than "that." Oh, I guess we are not Christians because other Christians messed it up for Christ by not representing him better. That's the problem, yeah!

In my experience, Christians think they have the only truth and everybody else can/will go to hell, and oh yeah, "God is love." I'm guessing that you fall into that belief system and your post exposes your own self righteousness.

I have felt Christian hate from family, co-workers, customers, nurses, neighbors and strangers simply because I have the courage to say "I'm not a Christian." That's all it takes to drive Christians crazy, just say "No, I don't believe."

Don't apologize to us for your shortcomings and for the others of your faith that you may ashamed of, go talk to your Jesus.

Originally posted by PronoEast

Originally posted by Northwarden
We are exhorted to help each other, and is self-defense off the table of options once you become a "True" Christian? Yes, God is love, but wisdom should rule over foolish behaviours as surely as light outshines darkness.

No, I agree that we have every right to defend ourselves and stand up for what we believe in, but I think there's a certain way to do that. We can still be respectful in that manner and not have to be ugly about it, you know?

I agree, there is a courteous, civil way to go about it, and a foolish way if you are in polite company. Then again, you might not always be in polite company, and terms of acceptance into brushing shoulders with darker outlooks usually "adopting the camo of the world" to fit in. It's also about encountering the mystery of that set of circumstances, as it appears, and not being so stodgy about beliefs that you remain in utter isolation from it.

I'll claim that it's not much more than social layering coming into symbiosis with a charismatic approach to the situation, to effect a positive address. If you have a down-to-earth attitude that people identify with already, that helps too. Too much "Flirting with the World" (an excellant book by John White ) becomes a problem. We also have our own freedoms (in Christ) that have become considered actually part of our lives (ordained or deeply-agreed-upon), as opposed to temporal sins, things we feel guilty about but persist in to our acknowledged detriment. For example, smoking, vegetarianism, or playing vids for hours. Depending on portrayals and lifestyle, these could fall either side of the fence.

reply to post by PronoEast


I disagree with a lot of what you said (like God = love), but I'd still like to thank you for your attempt to extend the olive branch. Who knows, maybe we'll actually have some sort of civil discussions in the future.

reply to post by windword


All I will respond on is that my intentions were genuine and I was sincere. There was no disguise for what I said. You don’t have to accept my apology, that’s fine. An acceptance isn’t required for an apology to be given. But I want to point out that my apology was to everyone and my concerns were with Christians specifically.

It’s pretty much a lose-lose situation for me don’t you think? If I do the wrong thing and bash everyone that believes something differently than me, I’m a hypocrite against my beliefs. But, if I do the right thing and try to show love and kindness, I’m still being dishonest and self-righteous in my approach.

I’m sorry you’ve experienced hate from all those people in your life, but those people aren’t me personally man. That would be like me blaming everyone that has your beliefs for something they personally did to me. It’s an unfair generalization towards me as an individual.

I talk to my Jesus every day and I’m glad that you acknowledge that that’s a good thing to do on the behalf of everyone else. Thanks for contributing.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


No problem, thanks for replying.

Originally posted by Northwarden

Originally posted by PronoEast

Originally posted by Northwarden
We are exhorted to help each other, and is self-defense off the table of options once you become a "True" Christian? Yes, God is love, but wisdom should rule over foolish behaviours as surely as light outshines darkness.

No, I agree that we have every right to defend ourselves and stand up for what we believe in, but I think there's a certain way to do that. We can still be respectful in that manner and not have to be ugly about it, you know?

I agree, there is a courteous, civil way to go about it, and a foolish way if you are in polite company. Then again, you might not always be in polite company, and terms of acceptance into brushing shoulders with darker outlooks usually "adopting the camo of the world" to fit in. It's also about encountering the mystery of that set of circumstances, as it appears, and not being so stodgy about beliefs that you remain in utter isolation from it.

I'll claim that it's not much more than social layering coming into symbiosis with a charismatic approach to the situation, to effect a positive address. If you have a down-to-earth attitude that people identify with already, that helps too. Too much "Flirting with the World" (an excellant book by John White ) becomes a problem. We also have our own freedoms (in Christ) that have become considered actually part of our lives (ordained or deeply-agreed-upon), as opposed to temporal sins, things we feel guilty about but persist in to our acknowledged detriment. For example, smoking, vegetarianism, or playing vids for hours. Depending on portrayals and lifestyle, these could fall either side of the fence.

edit on 21-3-2011 by Northwarden because: (no reason given)

I think I understand where you are coming from. I believe you should always be strong in your beliefs and hold to them, even under pressure and scrutiny. I am not in any way saying that you should ever bend or give a little just in the name of peace.

I'm more so saying that wisdom and discretion is very important. Sometimes an argument shouldn't be just about what's good or bad, but more so what is wise.

Originally posted by PronoEast
reply to post by windword

 

But I want to point out that my apology was to everyone and my concerns were with Christians specifically.

It’s pretty much a lose-lose situation for me don’t you think? If I do the wrong thing and bash everyone that believes something differently than me, I’m a hypocrite against my beliefs. But, if I do the right thing and try to show love and kindness, I’m still being dishonest and self-righteous in my approach.

It seems to me your post was an apology to everyone in regards to rude christian behavior.

"But if you do the right thing and TRY to show love and kindness..."

You see the problem? It is not geniune love, kindness, anger, patience etc. if you have to "TRY." A Budhist, a Hindu or New Ager may strive for perfection through their beliefs. Christians don't need to strive, they just ask their god to give them what they need. They don't really have to work toward love, pateince, kindness etc. because these are gifts from the lord and salvation can be gained at any time, there are no consequences (hell) as long as Jesus forgives them.

A personal relationship with Christ, imo, is nothing more that being in touch with the person that you intended yourself to be and staying aligned with what you know is right and righteous. No need to refer the ramblings of crazy scriptures that can be taken any which way but up.

I'm sorry if I came accross snarkie but I have only begun to fully realized the damage and destruction that Christianity and its followers has brought upon my family and personal life. These are people who will do anything to bring about what they believe to be the "will of god, and they believe the "will of god" is the destruction of those who don't believe. Not much diferent than the Jihadist, or the fundamental Muslim. I'm not talking the terrorism of war, its a more personalized terrorism.

Christian terrorism is alive and well and I could write a book on it, from the persecution of my grandparents, (Jewish/German refugees) to the persecution of my father in the US Navy during WWII when they almost threw him overboard for being Jewish and having a German accent. It just goes on from there.

reply to post by windword

You see the problem? It is not geniune love, kindness, anger, patience etc. if you have to "TRY."

Wrong, I'd say. Good behaviour may take effort, think about first days on a new job, where you are complicitly expected to apply new rules to your life. To them, that's what constitutes good behaviour. Some adjust fast, others only pretend, but either way it involves change, thought, applied effort, and an understanding of requirements to evince. The only difference is having no "whip of motivation" to your back. Too many fall into the hardcore extreme collection of counter-ideals to recognize this is only speaking of another perspective, and a shrugging off of apathy to get along. If it takes more than the effort, to the point of exerting yourself, then please don't for my sake! In short, it's appreciated even if it's a forced effort.

A dancer learns fake it 'til you make it btw.

They don't really have to work toward love, pateince, kindness etc. because these are gifts from ...

the Lord. It first takes an acceptance of benevolent concepts, and a hope to learn in positive enough fashion to not resent the pathos which frees our mind from a thousand unrequired cares. Wisdom looks from the bottom of a well, or a birds-eye view, or a collection of simple statistics we formerly verified with the same insight towards truth. Why do we need to dwell on a thousand miserable particulars if a solution already beckons us past the miseries of them. Only from a state of detachment can we sometimes find our resolve forward, meaning the peace we needed to create, with due process, a reasonable assessment of situations! There is much to be said for keeping a level head, in fact, to tilt towards a barbaric heroic ideal, it seems much more like a kensai or true warrior-minded, men or women, to adopt a more careful, circumspective outlook on their lives. It keeps the blustering blasts of inflated influences away from a rational point of perception, when needed, as needed.

Lastly, if you haven't cultivated a relationship with the Lord, or an angel, nor tried to, don't present an understanding to us based on the science you've envisioned, and the voodoo masterpiece you've modelled in your mind, which you thrust your many judgements into, or it might make an eyesore of you! Our connectivity with the heavens, and heavenly places, is what lends to our unique and individual characteristics, which involved a lot of mental pathfinding and prayer, of a more knowing nature than you are giving credit to. How transparent we are to the eyes of God, and how simple it isn't to live with that understanding? The sides were picked long ago, and we are free to choose our own paths to them. The middle ground is only illusion and mortal stumbling.

reply to post by PronoEast


Getting drunk this early in the day is a sign of bad things.

reply to post by Northwarden


Man, you've got to be an intellectual lol. You speak like it's poetry!

I used to be christian, still hold some common beliefs. However some points you are wrong about.

God is love is the main issue of your commentary I have a problem with. Even Jesus didn't "turn the other cheek" on some issues. Hell he physically threw priests who were exchanging money to bless people. I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus threw a mean hook in his day. Even most of his apostles had swords at one point or another.

My main meaning in all this is, there are some small things to turn the other cheek on, and other things you should be able to fight about. And no, I'm not saying attack other religions. As long as they don't bother you, don't bother them.

Originally posted by furzball
I used to be christian, still hold some common beliefs. However some points you are wrong about.

God is love is the main issue of your commentary I have a problem with. Even Jesus didn't "turn the other cheek" on some issues. Hell he physically threw priests who were exchanging money to bless people. I wouldn't be surprised if Jesus threw a mean hook in his day. Even most of his apostles had swords at one point or another.

My main meaning in all this is, there are some small things to turn the other cheek on, and other things you should be able to fight about. And no, I'm not saying attack other religions. As long as they don't bother you, don't bother them.

The entire section of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount in which this verse is found can be understood as one where Jesus actually serves to elevate the importance of following Israel's moral law beyond the letter to the spirit of the law. Much of the material therein complements the nature of His coming characterized by mercy, sacrificial love, and longsuffering toward sinners while at the same time affirming the "last is first" principle upon which the kingdom of God is based. For instance, we are told to go the extra mile for someone who abuses us, and to pray for enemies instead of resisting them. All of this can be generally summarized by saying we need to be pure inside and out and should be as accommodating as possible for the sake of a lost world.

To "turn the other cheek," does not imply pacifism, nor does it mean we place ourselves or others in mortal danger. Like the principle of the eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth in verse 38, turning the other cheek refers to personal retaliation, not criminal offenses or acts of military aggression. Clearly Jesus did not mean to negate all God’s laws and injunctions protecting us against violent crime or invading armies. Rather, Jesus is speaking here of the principle of non-retaliation to affronts against our own dignity, as well as lawsuits to gain one’s personal assets (v. 40), infringements on one’s liberty (v. 41), and violations of property rights (v. 42). He was calling for a full surrender of all personal rights.

Turning the other cheek means not to return insult for insult in retaliation, which is what most people expect and how some people act. Responding to hatred with love just might grab someone's attention and afford us a chance to share the gospel. When we respond in a manner that is unnatural, it displays the supernatural power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus was the perfect example because He was silent before His accusers and did not call down revenge from heaven on those who crucified Him.

reply to post by PronoEast


You wrote:

["Turning the other cheek means not to return insult for insult in retaliation, which is what most people expect and how some people act. Responding to hatred with love just might grab someone's attention and afford us a chance to share the gospel."]

Overdoing it will on the other hand soon lead to the perfect slavestate, type theocracy, nazism, stalinism etc. There is a point, where a: "No, not further" is reasonable and functional. Finding that specific point isn't just a religious/philosophical question, it's part of all human activities, and implies a great deal of simple pragmatism.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by PronoEast

 

You wrote:

["Turning the other cheek means not to return insult for insult in retaliation, which is what most people expect and how some people act. Responding to hatred with love just might grab someone's attention and afford us a chance to share the gospel."]

Overdoing it will on the other hand soon lead to the perfect slavestate, type theocracy, nazism, stalinism etc. There is a point, where a: "No, not further" is reasonable and functional. Finding that specific point isn't just a religious/philosophical question, it's part of all human activities, and implies a great deal of simple pragmatism.

I'd agree with this.

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Sorry for not catching this reply or if has already been addresses or argued otherwise - I'm new and just found how to view replies to my posts from inbox.

Not sure what you're getting at, to be honest - my post was clarifying that humanity & life in general has existed for much longer than the 11 thousand years you had mentioned in your post I was responding to (early humans up to 2 million years, anatomically modern up to about 200k).

As far as the creation saga, etc., please re-review what I posted. Yes, most young-earth creationists believe it's about 6000 years old, but also overlook translation issue that allow for a much older timeline based on the 'creation' they refer to possibly actually being a RE-creation. This could also reconcile the two different accounts of 'creation' in Genesis 1/2.

Be well!

reply to post by PronoEast

I would like to personally apologize to anyone that has ever received a response from a Christian with hate or obvious personal attacks. That’s not what I stand for and it isn’t what Christianity is all about.

Thank you, friend. I get a great deal of hate from religious types in this, and other forums, and in my town also. I am not a Christian, and people here tell me if I am not one, then I am going straight to their version of the Afterlife. I accept your apology with grace, and honor, but I fear it is not you that preaches hate for anything not Christian. Love and Light. Auto

reply to post by PronoEast


I am a christian and it is not easy living the
christian life.I make mistakes,respond rudely
at times.Most of the time I am defending my
faith on this board.
Being an imperfect sinner saved by God's grace,
I do the best that I can.I have to be on constant
guard of my feelings,emotions and mostly my anger.
There are people who would love nothing more than
to see a christian fall flat on their face.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by PronoEast

 

I am a christian and it is not easy living the
christian life.I make mistakes,respond rudely
at times.Most of the time I am defending my
faith on this board.
Being an imperfect sinner saved by God's grace,
I do the best that I can.I have to be on constant
guard of my feelings,emotions and mostly my anger.
There are people who would love nothing more than
to see a christian fall flat on their face.

I am a Wiccan/Pagan living in the Bible Belt, and that is a hard life to live also. The Christians here will not even listen to wisdom, or knowledge of higher things, and they are quick to judge a person not a Christian, or Gay.

I am quite happy with my life, my Great Father and Mother (God and Goddess) care for me, and take good care of me. I have no anger, or strife in my life, and am married to a beautiful woman half my own age. My faith needs no defense, people will see it as they see it, and that is that. I know my own way, and do not need anyone telling me what to do, or to live differently, or that I need to be "saved," or "washed in the blood of Jesus." (Eccc!)