Bible Answers to Member Questions

Originally posted by AkragonAlright from this point on you are no longer allowed to use Jesus in any reference when talking to me...You've already said in several instances "following Jesus will land you in hell"....

edit on 26-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Did he say that? I don't recall, but I think you'd better point out where you think he did.

reply to post by Akragon

this is actually the issue i have... you read your bible but you don't understand the lessons. And if you don't mind, i would appreciate it if you stop talking to me like i have no idea what im saying... Its a little insulting...thanks

Can you see the irony in your statement? You read your Bible...but you apply everything you read it it, to yourself Every story in the Bible is for your own good, but not every story is directed at you. Many teachings and doctrines are for specific people, such as the Jews, Gentiles, women, men, Christians, lost people.

They....clasifying a race or a certain belief as...they... Don't you see what im saying to you? It doesn't matter if they're black, white, chirstian. jew, muslim, handycapped, gay, sideways, backwards, whatever you have...they're just labels.

This goes along with my above point. It most certainly does matter what you are, and they are not just labels. The difference between a Jew and a Christian are miles apart. Never buy into the fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man masonic trash. Its false. Even being handicapped as you stated above truly mattered in the old testament. You could not be a priest if you were.

Every passage in the Bible has its place, context and application. Paul's epistles are where most of the Christians applicable doctrine comes from, not the Gospels.

Read Matthew chapters 5-7. None of that applies to you DOCTRINALLY. But you can use it PRACTICALLY, it just will not take you to heaven when you die. LIVING RIGHT WILL NOT SAVE YOU. And what Jesus was teaching in these verses are works.

So who do you think these verses would be applied to? Well, who was Jesus TALKING to at the time in Matt 5-7??? Read.

Alright from this point on you are no longer allowed to use Jesus in any reference when talking to me...You've already said in several instances "following Jesus will land you in hell"....

I can use my saviors name when ever I please. It is a name above every name and everyone will bow before him one day. The danger with dealing with the Gospels, is Jesus hasn't died yet, nor rose from the grave.
Only the Gospel of John speaks a lot about New testament salvation, which is why most scholars discount John's account since if shows Jesus as the Son of God.
Matthew shows him as the Jewish King.
Mark shows him as the suffering servant.
While Luke displays him as the great healer (Luke being a Doctor and all).
You must realize, the Gospels and the book of Acts was a transitionary time in between the Old and New testaments, and the way people gained eternal life changed dramatically.

For instance, remember the story of the Rich young ruler who came to Jesus and said "What must I do to inherit eternal life" What was Jesus's reply? "Keep the commandments, sell all you have, follow me" Any grade schooler can READ and see these are WORKS to get to heaven.

After Jesus died and Paul received the gospel of the Grace of God, salvation changed into instead of keeping the laws, making sacrifices, and following Moses, salvation was now a FREE GIFT that you must receive by FAITH.

What do you and the rest of the World not understand about these facts? YOU MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH. Everything in the Bible does not apply to you.....I don't see you chopping your hand off or plucking your eyes out do I?

yes.... .....i have plenty of questions for you... but i'll take it easy on you....for now

Shoot from the hip my friend, I have plenty of answers for you. And don't feel shy, I want make you look like an idiot, so you don't have to be "easy on me"

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Romans 11:28
"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes."

You can't fault me for still believing God has a purpose for his people, even though the ones in Israel may not all be Jews. But who are we to judge this? Let God be the judge since he knows the difference. It would just be guesses and speculation for us to comment of these peoples genealogy. (I suppect most Jews are still in New York or Jersey though )

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by AkragonAlright from this point on you are no longer allowed to use Jesus in any reference when talking to me...You've already said in several instances "following Jesus will land you in hell"....

edit on 26-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Did he say that? I don't recall, but I think you'd better point out where you think he did.

This is what I meant by what Akragon is refering too that is taken out of contest of course.. A wikipedia link shows just how divided Christians are over the subject of Christs teachings that I guess some of you are just now becoming aware of:

I adhere to the Number 12 option. Read them all for context though

reply to post by KJV1611

These are called "Synagogue of Satan"

i have a small problem with the overall conclusion you reached on this, based in part on what you said later, regarding the separation of the doctrine of salvation, faith and grace of the new testament, vs. the doctrine of works and sacrifice of the old testament. how exactly does this apply to salvation, faith and grace christians? are you suggesting that if they don't do everything exactly as stated in the text, even if they are believers in christ, believers in salvation, faith and grace, that they are of satan because they have some doctrinal oddity, like tongues requirement or the very plain evidence that sabbath is not sunday or the pretty comprehensive pile of evidence suggesting hell is not exactly what everyone thinks it is? who is saving the person, you? your church building? mistakes in doctrine other than salvation and grace, send you to firey damnation FOREVER?

reply to post by undo


No not at all, and thanks for bringing this up, I don't want anyone to take that post in the wrong way. All of the 6-7 religions I mentioned can and do have saved people in them, just as saved as myself (some much more than others).

BUT, some of the more adamant sects of these religions believe without some of the things I mentioned, i. e. speaking in tongues, observing the sabbath, etc, that you ARE NOT SAVED. They think without these "works" you cannot enter into heaven, such as the Catholic Sacraments.

My point is salvation is purely by "grace through faith" plus nothing. Do you see my point, or do I need to reword something?

AFTER you are saved, you are to do good works to SHOW you are saved. This is what confuses most people.

MATTHEW 7:16
"Ye shall know them by their FRUITS. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
2 CORINTHIANS 9:10
"Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the FRUITS of your righteousness"
PHILIPPIANS 1:11
"Being filled with the FRUITS of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God."

reply to post by KJV1611


yep i understand that, just wanted you to clarify, that doctrinal oddities other than those applying to salvation by grace, are not indicative of lack of salvation........or grace.

lack of works is an eye of the beholder dealio. what one person believes are good works, another might sniff at. although the evidentiary examples are listed, generally speaking, it isn't always obvious to the onlooker (and perhaps that is how it should be, considering praise among men can lead to other problems).

Originally posted by Lazarus Short

Originally posted by AkragonAlright from this point on you are no longer allowed to use Jesus in any reference when talking to me...You've already said in several instances "following Jesus will land you in hell"....

edit on 26-3-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Did he say that? I don't recall, but I think you'd better point out where you think he did.

Here you go...

Originally posted by KJV1611
If you followed Jesus's teachings in these passages, you would end up in hell when you died just like the rich man in Luke 16.

oh and KJV1611....

This is what I meant by what Akragon is refering too that is taken out of contest of course.. A wikipedia link shows just how divided Christians are over the subject of Christs teachings that I guess some of you are just now becoming aware of:

Perhaps you'd like to explain how your statement was "taken out of Context... of course"

reply to post by KJV1611

Shoot from the hip my friend, I have plenty of answers for you. And don't feel shy, I want make you look like an idiot, so you don't have to be "easy on me"

My friend you couldn't make me look like an idiot if you tried....although you're doing a great job proving yourself as one...

Believe me if i don't go easy on you, this thread will die....and i have no intention of derailing your hate filled thread... Its much better if you continue to preach because this way everyone who reads your thread can see who you are and what you believe...

And by the way my statement still stands, you can't quote jesus in one circumstance then tell everyone following him will land you in hell in another...

reply to post by KJV1611


You wrote:

["What do you and the rest of the World not understand about these facts? YOU MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH. Everything in the Bible does not apply to you.....I don't see you chopping your hand off or plucking your eyes out do I?"]

and:

Quote: ["Can you see the irony in your statement? You read your Bible...but you apply everything you read it it, to yourself Every story in the Bible is for your own good, but not every story is directed at you. Many teachings and doctrines are for specific people, such as the Jews, Gentiles, women, men, Christians, lost people."]


An 'everything is relating to something else and in any given specified context have more or less meaning' is fine with me. With the addition that this also includes an overall canvass, where the holy manual gives meaning to believers only.

But then you DO have some absolute after all:

Quote: [" My point is salvation is purely by "grace through faith" plus nothing. Do you see my point, or do I need to reword something?"]

So all the cherry-picked parts of the bible, specifically directed to/at various target-groups of people, WHEN applied to said bible-target groups, ALL eventually give the same relative outcome: "Grace through faith". Is this a general observation, in any way validated, or just a sophisticated way of saying, that YOUR bible-interpretation methodology is the 'correct' one. In that case why?

Quote: ["AFTER you are saved, you are to do good works to SHOW you are saved. This is what confuses most people."]

The reason for this statement confusing people is probably, that it intrinsically is confused per se.

reply to post by Akragon


What your doing is the very definition of taken what I said out of context. Do you even understand what "context" is?

I said "if you followed Jesus's teachings in these passages, you would end up in hell" ,and you didn't even bother to quote what passages I was referring to. Typical.

I didn't say ALL passages. Once again, inability to read coupled with ignorance, even more typical.

As for all of John chapter 3, 10:30, and other various verses Jesus quoted WILL take you to heaven. Attempting to lie about me saying ALL of Jesus's words will take you to hell is sheer dishonesty and shows your character, which of course, is flawed and scared. I'm not surprised.

I'll still quote Jesus to you even though you can't handle it, and myself and everyone else on here is still waiting for your pathetic attempt to ask a hard question. Continuing to say you are going easy on me does not compensate for your lack of intelligent questions. You out of you league.

2 CORINTHIANS 11:6
"But though I be rude in SPEECH, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things."

GALATIANS 4:16
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

reply to post by bogomil

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by KJV1611

 

But then you DO have some absolute after all:

Quote: [" My point is salvation is purely by "grace through faith" plus nothing. Do you see my point, or do I need to reword something?"]

So all the cherry-picked parts of the bible, specifically directed to/at various target-groups of people, WHEN applied to said bible-target groups, ALL eventually give the same relative outcome: "Grace through faith". Is this a general observation, in any way validated, or just a sophisticated way of saying, that YOUR bible-interpretation methodology is the 'correct' one. In that case why?

ALL eventually never gives the same out come. Grace through faith is for the age we are in right now, the church age. During the millennium, salvation will come from Grace and works, as faith will not be needed since Jesus Christ is sitting on the throne in Jerusalem, visible to all. This was the same set up in the old testament as God did visible "signs and wonders" for which the JEWS saw cause everyone knows:

1 CORINTHIANS 1:22
"For the Jews REQUIRE a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:"

So what is Faith:

Hebrew 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. "

: ["AFTER you are saved, you are to do good works to SHOW you are saved. This is what confuses most people."]

The reason for this statement confusing people is probably, that it intrinsically is confused per se.

Nah, there is nothing confusing about doing good. Just do good, and not bad, easy enough huh? So what classifies as bad or "sin"? Once again that is what gets me banned so I'll retreat to Private messages if you want to know.

reply to post by undo


Great responses. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon

 

What your doing is the very definition of taken what I said out of context. Do you even understand what "context" is?

I said "if you followed Jesus's teachings in these passages, you would end up in hell" ,and you didn't even bother to quote what passages I was referring to. Typical.

I didn't say ALL passages. Once again, inability to read coupled with ignorance, even more typical.

As for all of John chapter 3, 10:30, and other various verses Jesus quoted WILL take you to heaven. Attempting to lie about me saying ALL of Jesus's words will take you to hell is sheer dishonesty and shows your character, which of course, is flawed and scared. I'm not surprised.

I'll still quote Jesus to you even though you can't handle it, and myself and everyone else on here is still waiting for your pathetic attempt to ask a hard question. Continuing to say you are going easy on me does not compensate for your lack of intelligent questions. You out of you league.

2 CORINTHIANS 11:6
"But though I be rude in SPEECH, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things."

GALATIANS 4:16
"Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"

well to start...

I said "if you followed Jesus's teachings in these passages, you would end up in hell" ,and you didn't even bother to quote what passages I was referring to. Typical.

You didn't quote them either, but i do know what you were refering to, quoted by my friend IAMIAM...so why don't you tell me....exactly what passages were you talking about when you said this?

Attempting to lie about me saying ALL of Jesus's words will take you to hell is sheer dishonesty and shows your character, which of course, is flawed and scared. I'm not surprised.

Now calling me a liar is something different....i don't lie its pointless....i was using your own words.

It seems you're getting upset as well, its not my fault i see your lack of understanding. Im just making sure everyone else can see it as well...

I'll still quote Jesus to you even though you can't handle it, and myself and everyone else on here is still waiting for your pathetic attempt to ask a hard question. Continuing to say you are going easy on me does not compensate for your lack of intelligent questions. You out of you league.

my lack of intelligent questions, but you can't even put together a grammatically correct sentence

You out of you league?

What league, from what i've seen from your so called "answers" we arn't even playing the same sport...

Im not asking any hard questions either, im letting you dig your own hole...

gl

reply to post by KJV1611


Okay, here's another question(since you did not answer my first question correctly) Ive had rattled up in my head for quite some time. What significant impact does the omission of the Comma Johanneum in many modern bibles have on the teaching of the trinity in general?. Noting that non Trinitarians hold true to the Byzantine text in which these bibles are emerging.

reply to post by Akragon


Still waiting on a question. If your scared just say so. There is no shame in it...not much at least. You wondering where your going when you die now? You seem some what unsure as you cannot refute any of the verses I a posting.

I'll help you if you want help, I can show teach you the scriptures need to make sure your going to heaven. I don't mean to anger you, but you see upset.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Akragon

 

Still waiting on a question. If your scared just say so. There is no shame in it...not much at least.

You wondering where your going when you die now? You seem some what unsure as you cannot refute any of the verses I a posting.

I'll help you if you want help, I can show teach you the scriptures need to make sure your going to heaven. I don't mean to anger you, but you see upset.

I don't have a question for you... im watching your answers to others... Im also not upset in the least... Im also not worried about "going to heaven" ... But if you insist i'll ask you a question...

What scriptures will get you to heaven?

I didn't refute the verses you posted because they didn't apply to anything....

Looking back i did actually ask you a question before, which you had no answer for...

You didn't quote them either, but i do know what you were refering to, quoted by my friend IAMIAM...so why don't you tell me....exactly what passages were you talking about when you said this?

refering to your following jesus will get you to hell quote....

I'd love you to explain actually instead of dancing around the questions

You wondering where your going when you die now?

no i wasn't wondering that....

Originally posted by Theophorus
reply to post by KJV1611

 

Okay, here's another question(since you did not answer my first question correctly) Ive had rattled up in my head for quite some time. What significant impact does the omission of the Comma Johanneum in many modern bibles have on the teaching of the trinity in general?. Noting that non Trinitarians hold true to the Byzantine text in which these bibles are emerging.

edit on 26-3-2011 by Theophorus because: (no reason given)

If there is one thing I hate worse than new age bible per-versions, its prideful scholars who rely on useless "ten dollar" words in order to charge higher tuition.

Anyway, Read 1 John 5:7. If there is one verse in the Bible that proves the doctrine of the trinity that the Bible has been alluding to through out the book since Genesis 1:26, its this one. So with that in mind, wouldn't you think something is a little "fishy" about taking this verse out? It destroys the doctrine of the Trinity.

"Noting" As for non-trinitarians, I could care less what they are doing.

Its just one of several thousand verses that are being changed just as quick as publishers can print ink to paper.

reply to post by Akragon


not involved in the paul debate. but will show a gospel example, that may help this conversation a bit (as it proves that the epistles of paul are extraneous, strictly speaking)

john 3: 16 god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on him, should not perish but have ever lasting life.