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the Free Masons don't hide anything

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posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 

I have my idea, but I don't want to assume and most importantly I want you to show your hand. I hate vague, general questions and answers.

As for P2, it was rogue Lodge who lost all recognition for their actions.

Just saying something doesn't make it true. I demand proof.




posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 


Here is a pretty informative post from one of the other threads....

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Raustin
 


In normal masonic lodges the lodges are regulated and recognized by the Grand Lodges. These are your charitable guys who like fish fries and are essentially good people.

There are other lodges out there not recognized or regulated by any Grand Lodge, these lodges are sometimes called black lodges. More often these lodges and the "masons" that are part of them are considered Irregular or Clandestine by the normal lodges.

An example of a grand lodges view of clandestine and irregular masons.


REG. 87-1 CLANDESTINE LODGE.

A clandestine lodge is one which pretends to be Masonic but is without a warrant, dispensation, or charter from a grand lodge recognized by this Grand Lodge.

REG. 87-2 CLANDESTINE MASON.

A clandestine Mason is one who is or was affiliated with a clandestine lodge, and he cannot be healed. For procedure in handling a petition for the degrees from one who was a member of a clandestine lodge, see Regulation 66-6.[66-6; 75-6.4; 75-1.5; 86-2.3.B].

REG. 87-3 IRREGULAR MASONS.

A lodge with a proper charter, though not legally constituted for a particular communication, such as, if fewer than seven members are present, or if due notice of the communication has not been given as and when required, or in the event the membership of the lodge is less than twenty members, is not a clandestine lodge and Masons made therein are not clandestine Masons, but they are irregular Masons. In such case the irregularity or error shall be cured by "healing" the candidate in a regularly constituted lodge. This cannot be done without the approval of the Grand Master. [11-4; 2-6.9; 40-8; 45-8; 66-6; 74-1; 87-6].


www.grandlodge-nc.org...

Clandestine lodges like P2 are often involved in profit and use their meetings for less than benevolent purposes. These are the kind of places where you pay for degrees. In other words its all about the money for them. They may also be involved in criminal activities as well like P2.

[edit on 22/11/08 by MikeboydUS]

Link



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


yes a Rogue but a very influential lodge ,loaded with politicans ehh.

I know a pretty good deal about many of the lodges and sicilian mafia links also ,due to my clients in Italy and yes do you know what they think of masons ,low life blood sucking s c u m , if they had their way ,they would kill everyone related to massoneria.

refer to P2 lodge case , even wiki refers to it as a shadow govt



P2 was sometimes referred to as a "state within a state"[2] or a "shadow government".[3] The lodge had among its members prominent journalists, members of parliament, industrialists, and military leaders—including Silvio Berlusconi, who later became Prime Minister of Italy; the Savoy pretender to the Italian throne Victor Emmanuel; and the heads of all three Italian intelligence services. When searching Licio Gelli's villa, the police found a document called the "Plan for Democratic Rebirth", which called for a consolidation of the media, suppression of trade unions, and the rewriting of the Italian Constitution.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

so please tell me how can italian common man trust masonry , when you yourselves are the disease?

so where liberty ,equality and fraternity . what my clients see is mafia and low level parasites . masonry is tainted ?

I laugh at your defensive infantile responses



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 


But it was not a Lodge at all? What is it that you don't understand. Any group of men can go form a shadow government and call themselves something that sounds cool. There is no trademark on the name. They were clandestine, which means they were not Masonic at all. They were just a rogue group using the name.

Yes, those guys, and all other posers and parasites that try to piggyback on the good name of Masonry are scum. You can be correct in that assumption, but that supports the notion that the bulk of organized Masonry is good. There would be no need for clandestine lodges if the regular lodges were not so strict in our adherence to upright morals and virtues. There would be no need for those guys to sneak off and form their own groups if the entire organization was corrupt. The very existence of those guys is evidence of the strict moral code in the regular lodges of Masonry!



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by USAisSatanic
masons= s c u m who should be shot at sight .


More tough talk over the internet.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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the free masons have been a social group for years now. no power there



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by USAisSatanic
reply to post by getreadyalready
 


yes strict code is for the lower levels not higher levels . how come some lodges become influential ? its not coincidence , its encouragement of psychopathy . like Berlocusni .

Its similiar to economic hitmen(if caught corporate not resp) ,similiarly for masonry if caught Grand Orient is not responsible .

and i do not need nonsense from some low level brainwashed mason, because my clients have had enough trouble with sicilian mafia, who are linked with massoneria again..

mafiazero.blogspot.com...

masons= s c u m who should be shot at sight .


edit on 22-3-2011 by USAisSatanic because: (no reason given)


you are in a position to be a hero here. Name the names of the higher ups. We can out them and restore the good name of masonry. Tell us all who these men are and what they are doing. I will await your intelligent response.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 





masons= s c u m who should be shot at sight .


And people wonder why a public register doesn't sound like the best idea to us.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 

It is neither rational or fair to view Freemasonry on the actions of a irregular and unrecognized Lodge such as P2. P2 is an example of everything Freemasonry is not.

Again, you have not shown us the hierarchy of Freemasonry. I'm still giving you a chance to show us the hierarchy. I mean you can write it out or use pictures. Hell, I'm sure you can find a video out there on YouTube. All you've done is make attacks without proof. Baseless attacks and nothing else.

Nor does you "knowing a pretty good deal" mean that its true. Just because your clients say it doesn't mean its true. Information from the Italian government in regards to Freemasonry is often tainted as up to just recent times known Freemasons were harassed by the police for no other reason than just being Masons. Being that close to the Papacy they are not held in high regards nor were they viewed in good light by the communists when they were in power.

Around Italy I've only seen a few bookstores that had books on Masonry in public view, one of those I had to get buzzed in to even look around.

reply to post by USAisSatanic
 

You call us scum, but show no proof as to why and also call for our deaths. You are the one calling for death. Also, as I said above, you have yet to define what is high level and what is low level. I mean you can't call someone a low level or a high level without giving definition. I mean, there are Masons here of different rank and position within the the Blue Lodge and the appendant orders from around the world. Each of us has had different experiences.

Like I've said to any other anti-Mason. You want to kill me? Bring it on.

I'd also demand that you show the connection to the Mafia. Please provide names.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 


I'm sorry, but Governor Rick Scott just left my office, and I was a little too busy to notice your insult of "brain-washed, low level Mason." Maybe you should rethink that? I am free for awhile now though, so continue with your completely false accusations and poor understanding of our fraternity.

BTW.....If you have clients that have dealings with the Sicilian mafia, what does that say about your character?



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:26 PM
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How is this usaissatanic guy so dim? He HAS to be trolling, because no true ATS'er could be that dumb.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


I am neither not interested in freemasonry nor its nonsense , yes go convince the italian people that there are good and bad masons . for many of them ,all masons are corrupt ,linked with mafia

Massoneria is also corrupt like politics . there is no hiding that .

I already gave some links ,but guess your masonic sympathizing mod removed it in the name of 'ill manners'





The findings of the Anti-Mafia Commission presided by Luciano Violante: "Il complesso delle dichiarazioni dei collaboratori di giustizia appare essere concordante su tre punti: ("All of the statements of staff to justice appears to be consistent on three points): - intorno agli anni 1977-1979 la massoneria chiese alla commissione di Cosa nostra di consentire l'affiliazione di rappresentanti delle varie famiglie mafiose; non tutti i membri della commissione accolsero positivamente l'offerta; malgrado ciò alcuni di loro ed altri uomini d'onore di spicco decisero per motivi di convenienza di optare per la doppia appartenenza, ferma restando la indiscussa fedeltà ed esclusiva dipendenza da Cosa nostra; - (Around the years 1977-1979 the Masonry asked the Board of Cosa Nostra to allow the membership of representatives of the various Mafia families, not all members of the Committee welcomed the offer positively, despite what some of them and other men of honor leading reasons they decided to opt for the convenience of dual membership, subject to the unquestioned loyalty and exclusive reliance on the Cosa Nostra
- nell'ambito di alcuni episodi che hanno segnato la strategia della tensione nel nostro paese, vale a dire i tentativi eversivi del 1970 e del 1974, esponenti della massoneria chiesero la collaborazione della mafia; - (In some episodes that have marked the strategy of tension in our country, namely the subversive attempts of 1970 and 1974, members of the Masons asked the cooperation of the Mafia
- all'interno di Cosa nostra era diffuso il convincimento che l'adesione alla massoneria potesse risultare utile per stabilire contatti con persone appartenenti ai più svariati ambienti che potevano favorire gli uomini d'onore". - (Within the Cosa Nostra was the belief that membership in the Masons would be useful to establish contacts with people belonging to different environments that might encourage men of honor. ")
www.ecorav.it...

mafiazero.blogspot.com...

www.lastampa.it...

so tell me how masonry is about fraternity,liberty and equality and not about corruption,cronyism .

can you prove that masonry is not corrupt and it is all liberty,equality,fraternity . Prove it that's a challenge

Its freemasonry that tainted,corrupt and full of cronyism and my client experience is enough proof for me .

reply to post by getreadyalready
 


my client character is million times better than this entire fraternity of masonry of yours you love so much , he was a victim of extortion and torment he underwent was extreme . even if you decided to compensate him monetarily , I doubt you will restore him fully EVER morally,monetaryily,spiritually in the fiber and strength that he was before.



Originally posted by YourPopRock
How is this usaissatanic guy so dim? He HAS to be trolling, because no true ATS'er could be that dumb.


dim is one thing , and acting dumb is one . I returned to ATS after a long time .and yes it seems you masons are not like it .but first

reply to post by network dude
 


I will have to talk with my client , but I doubt that I will be willing to talk about it ,as he will have threat to his life . anyways I will try .


edit on 23-3-2011 by USAisSatanic because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 

You really must not read all of my post as I clearly said that the findings from the government are extremely biased nor did they actually show any connection. Like you, they just made claims and left the fear to the people to perpetuate through rumor and lies.

Like I said, known Masons here in Italy (of which I know some personally) were harassed by police for no other reason than being a Mason.

In a logical debate world, the one who makes the accusations must show the evidence. The burden of proof lies with you to show how Freemasonry is not about fraternity, liberty, and equality. You all must show direct examples of cronyism (ie names, dates, places, positions, etc).

As you made the accusations, it is you to show us that we are not these things and corrupt. Your clients could be lying or just ignorant to truth. I was actually kicked out of a store as the owner noticed my ring and was extremely anti-Masonic.

You know nothing of Freemasonry so you know nothing of my character or the character of my Brethren. You're saying that Freemasons tortured your client? I highly doubt that. Here is the thing, all your information is second information, we have actually experienced Freemasonry. It is not as you say. And until you give clear definition, it is irresponsible of you to call anyone low level.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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Perhaps Satanic has tried to join the Masons and been rejected, afterall, he does admit to having shady clients. Or, perhaps he just thinks we are a bunch of bad eggs. If that is certainly the case, I think it is time to direct your death threats toward international bankers, who seem to make a living from others people's misery. Or priests that prey on young chlidren.

I believ that Disney has a dark agenda, but you do not hear me calling for all the employees to be strung up and shot. You bantering is tantermount to hate mongering and threatening behaviour. Should this be even tolerated on this site????



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 05:20 AM
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This USA character is a troll. Just ignore him. He wants us to believe he has "clients" and he cannot even formulate a proper grammatical sentence.

It's time that we as Brothers stand tall in the face of ignorance and take a lesson out of our Forefather's book: Just ignore them, it will probably drive them utterly nuts not getting any response on their flaming shots.


Do you think Ben Franklin or George Washington would be sitting here arguing on the internet? Remember the plumb.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by USAisSatanic
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

I didn't question your client's character, I questioned yours for having such a client. What type of representative are you for this person? Your poor understanding of the basic facts around Freemasonry, and your poor research skills to correct that misunderstanding indicate you would not be a very good client representative. Your client's involvement with the Sicilian Mafia indicate legal and ethical problems. Your geographical location from where you are posting, your screenname, and your Italian client are all mismatched by 1000s of miles, and once again point toward a misrepresentation or lie on your part.

Contrast you, and your client's questionable integrity with the mandatory background checks we run on every potential Masonry candidate, the thorough interview process, and the commitment of time and learning each new candidate goes through before attaining the 3rd Degree of Master Mason, and you will see a stark difference between you, your client, and any Freemason. Our character is tried, true, and bonafide with paperwork, public works, and history to support it, while your flimsy character is based off half-truths or flat out lies.

I have literally hundreds of personal friends in Freemasonry that are of the highest possible caliber and character. My career, and the careers of many of my brothers, is in public service, and mine in particular requires routine FBI background checks. We contribute to charities, work in the communities, serve in the local governments, participate in local politics, volunteer our time at events, house families of strangers in need, drive families of sick kids for hours to totally free Shriner hospitals, contribute regularly to cutting edge medical research (MMRL), and serve as upright, just, and honest family men and Masons. I would love to insert you or your client or any of the clandestine Masons that you think you know into a group of real Masons and see how quickly you would shrink back to the shadows when faced with real men of honor!

I hope you actually visit the USA at some point, and you are welcome to visit my Lodge while you are here. For that matter, I hope you actually get to visit Italy someday, and get a taste for what you think you know about their culture.

I put the "Mod" box around this post, because you can consider it a personal attack against your character as compared to any Mason, and since it is a personal attack, another Mod will probably have to come along and remove it, but I hope you get to read it first.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



I'm sorry, but Governor Rick Scott just left my office


You poor thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


LOL! Nothing productive, just a little bit of face time before he cuts some of our positions.
He is very direct though, I admire his directness and fortitude, even if I don't like some of his ideas.



posted on Mar, 23 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by LightCraft
This USA character is a troll. Just ignore him. He wants us to believe he has "clients" and he cannot even formulate a proper grammatical sentence.


I was just thinking the same thing. I'm not sure why anyone calling themselves "USA is Satanic" would be taken seriously in the first place.




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