How could religious texts provide insight into future events?

(sorry for the blank post)

To start off, I'm not entirely knowledgeable in religious texts and prophecies. But if there's ever anything that's been consistent throughout all religions, it's the prophecies of end times and other events. But what's puzzling to me is how a prophet or whatever might have insight into an upcoming future event? An example would be like the return of Jesus, and how Jesus himself knew that one day he'd return to battle Satan in a cataclysmic event which would apparently turn out ugly for some, and glorious for others.
Is it that everything in life has been predetermined? Is it that our reality is really just a staged event? I can't seem to put myself together well enough to come up with a rational idea as to why there's past knowledge of coming events, and how if there's a given 'free-will' that's bestowed upon us all, including the higher-beings, that there was nothing done to prevent times from reaching such dire straits? Is it that we're here to entertain, and in reality don't serve a higher purpose?

Well, apparently when a 7 headed creature comes out of the sea, we know it's the end of times.

It can't...

Prophets don't exist aside from those sent from God...

Sorry guys, I left the body of my post out by accident. Please reread. Also, I'm using the word 'prophet' vaguely, for there are many interpretations of the name. Whether it's in a religious sense or just a lay person having a vision.

reply to post by Sparkitekt


You do know revelations was written by an old man in a cave right?

reply to post by Akragon


perhaps. I can't say for sure, for I wasn't there. I'm only left with second-hand info. Please don't take my words as ideology that's set in stone. It's just always been a curiosity to me. Whether it's the bible, or any other written text, there's always been a mentioning of future times. Is it that our ancestors were just always expecting things to end?

reply to post by Sparkitekt


The doctrine of the church of doom and gloom i call them...

Good fun

Originally posted by Akragon
It can't...

Prophets don't exist aside from those sent from God...

What exactly do you mean by this? I'm just trying to understand your position. You say that revelation was written in a cave by some guy...cool...but wouldn't that pretty much account for the rest of the bible as well? That position would also lend itself easily to assume that we technically were all sent from God for a purpose.

reply to post by Sparkitekt

Let me offer a suggestion about the way it might work (in respect of prophecies comng from a God).

When I read "Moby Dick", I know exactly what is going to happen. I know that Captain Ahab is going to get shipwrecked. Why? Not because I'm controlling what he does, but because I've read the book before and I know how it ends.

Or if I'm reading the life of King Charles I, I know what he's going to do wrong, what battles he's going to lose, and how he's going to lose his head on a scaffold. Again, this is because I've read the story before. His free-will is completely unaffected, but I know what he's going to do, because, from my viewpoint, he's already done it.

Supposing God's place in Eternity puts him in a similar position, towards those of us living within Time? In other words, he can already see, in a sense, "the end of the book". He knows what we're going to do, because, from his viewpoint, we've already done it.
That would make prophecy possible without necessarily affecting free-will.

Originally posted by Sparkitekt

Originally posted by Akragon
It can't...

Prophets don't exist aside from those sent from God...

What exactly do you mean by this? I'm just trying to understand your position. You say that revelation was written in a cave by some guy...cool...but wouldn't that pretty much account for the rest of the bible as well? That position would also lend itself easily to assume that we technically were all sent from God for a purpose.

Very Good my friend...We all have a purpose, and that purpose is to learn...

What isn't to understand about what i said, prophets don't exist. Yet there are some "teachers" sent from God that were prophets, such as Jesus, budda, krishna, muhamad...etc etc..

leaving the religious aspect aside; how is it that there have been various prophecies made by various ancient cultures about future events that have either come to pass, or are still in the making? Wouldn't this insight give you the impression that everything has been scripted? You often hear the term 'the world stage', and to me the feeling I get when I hear it is as if we're in some reality-tv type of reality where the majority of the show is already pre-written, only leaving a few factors to be determined by the outcome of such scripted events.

The way that (accurate) prophecies would be contained in a text is if there was a meta-understanding based on pre-cursory indicators.

This is how economics predictions are made today, or other such meta-based understandings.

It's not difficult to see how actual prophecies and predictions can be made and be true... the difficulty comes because most of the prophetic language in "The Bible" is draped in symbolism and imagery.

So first off, you have to be able to READ the symbols used to even understand what is being communicated.

Once you do this, it is often easy to see the difference between pessimistic thinking, wishful thinking, and thinking based on prior experiences.

Also many things happen in patterns throughout history... political scenarios, economical scenarios, military scenarios etc. These are often indicated by pre-cursory events as well.

In closing, a fool is someone who either claims that bible prophecy is patently true or patently false....

The wise look to understand from where the "prophecy" is grounded to see if there is anything to be learned.

In reality, the vast majority of meta-events can be deduced long before any of the participants are really aware, if only one has the time to watch for patterns and data. It doesn't matter if these are ascribed to the whims of a tribal deity or not.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Sparkitekt

 

You do know revelations was written by an old man in a cave right?

That was visited by an Angel-or ET as some prefer on Patmos.. Consider the tech involved in his journey?

reply to post by Sparkitekt


Perhaps you should read it, best thang I ever did.

reply to post by DISRAELI


I like how you put it!
So considering God is in a position as overseer of all that's happened and all that is to come, shouldn't he also be responsible enough to prevent such events from ever taking place? Is it that he's playing the role of observer? Like as if we're some cable company with billions of channels of viewing pleasure for the viewer?

reply to post by HunkaHunka


They should have a 'like' button like facebook. lol.
But at what point do we draw the line as the observer, or the observed?

reply to post by Sparkitekt



I was just typing this to my friend this morning. I had to edit it so it leave me anonymous.

[10:54] My wife and I went to church yesterday
[10:54] you know how catholic churches have envalopes for their members to put money in for donations?
[10:55] They send it to us every month
[10:55] usualy theres one or two envalopes per a day
[10:55] or weekend
[10:55] they allways say what its for on the envalope
[10:56] Like one is always for church donation
[10:56] the other might be for the school
[10:56] or might be for christmas gifts for the poor
[10:56] or food for the starving
[10:56] we got our mail on march 1st ok
[10:57] our envalope that was sent to us for donations said "special needs"
[10:58] and was dated for church this weekend.
[10:58] March 20th
[10:58] special needs
[10:58] and the priest said the envalope money was being donated to japan
[10:58] My wife and I looked at eachother
[10:59] and said WOW!
[10:59] Its almost like they knew it was going to happen!
[10:59] they had an envelope labeled to help people "special needs"
[10:59] RIGHT after
[10:59] weird

Originally posted by Sparkitekt
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

They should have a 'like' button like facebook. lol.
But at what point do we draw the line as the observer, or the observed?

I think it's key to look at how people dealt with or interpreted certain things in the past.

For example, Revelation talks a lot about what happens during times of great empires, the great gaps in wealth, the wars, effects of famine, etc, and how they tend to fall. In that time, the only memory prior to rome was babylon, hence the imagery there. And the hebrews had their own issues with Babylon, hence the imagery in this Jewish text.

I think it makes total sense to scour revelation looking at it from this perspective, if you are so inclined.

Then again, I don't think it's necessary either... but as someone who studies anthropology, I really love to read these old texts... specifically those which are not well known to the masses.

reply to post by r129s215


When did you receive that 'special needs' envelope?

reply to post by Sparkitekt

Yes, you're right.
The Bible does depict God as ultimately in control of events, which is why Revelation comes out with a "happy ending".
But the exact relationship between "God's control" and human free-will, from a Biblical standpoint, is not one that I'm going to try to sort out. I suspect it may be beyond human understanding,
I'll content myself with the minor point that prophecy, on its own, doesn't necessarily, as such, interfere with free will.