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The Libyan war: Unconstitutional and illegitimate

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posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:49 AM
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we should call for an immediate re election in the UK as we didnt vote for our country to goto war , the army is here to protect the people.
They are not here to protect our corportate interests,
the UK should have an immediate reelection , as no one voted for another war !




posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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i find it funny that the U.S. can simply invade Iraq and claim a "war" because they say so without any evidence of WMD's whatsoever but when there is an actual war occurring, such as Libya, they seem strangely reluctant to send any troops at all, instead preferring to bomb them from a safe distance.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by benkrono
 


I find it interesting that they say they are taking a back seat role , yet as it all kicks off the tomahawks are flying into libya .
I can only imagine the rising death toll for libya.
I just dont get it , we live in a so called democracy where the military are here to protect us only , not to invade other countries and meddle in their problems.
I guess our governments are guilty of being the nosy neighbour, well hardly neighbours are we, UK , France , US , dont even share a border .



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Mike_A
 


The question remains why are they abstaining in their votes, when clearly they are opposed to the Military Action against Libya?

Russia and china will always abstain when a clear violation of human rights is taking place and a solution is being put in place which if logically extended could apply to their own countries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Russia and China have appaling human rights abuses. DUH

Now they will hypocritically complain about whatever action is taken so that they can appear to be the good guys. Anyone with half a brain cell can see this......



Is it because of some sinister leverage by the International Banking or Oil Cartels or the Military Industrial Complex where they dare not actually challenge these actions even though they are opposed to them?

Or is it simply a form of divide and conquer where they end up representing by proxy those who are opposed amongst the masses and some how provide some illusion of hope that maybe one day the UN Security Council will stop being a rubber stamp for what the United States/UK/Israel would like to see happen?

Regardless the UN is just another psuedo democratic system that is not actually democratic in how it acts and isn't even representative of the member nations.

Clearly it's being used as a vehicle and mechanism to bypass nation's sovereign rights and systems and is not only a mockery in it's own right, but renders governments like the US's a mockery too.

Thinly veiled religious crusades against Muslim nations clearly have an appeal to Christian conservatives and fundamentalists amongst the masses, while gaining control of a nation's vital resources certainly have an appeal to the elite, fleecing dictators of their stolen billions have an appeal to the banksters who get to sit on their money in perpituity in frozen accounts, and the military industial complex continues to expend money like it's water while raking up huge profits and currying favor within the system with the tax payer's money it miss appropriates and spreads around to powerful politicians.

Oh deary me the brain is not switched on today is it. It is quite clealry in the (oil) interests of the west to have Gaddafi in control of Libya. We already have oil deals with him, we are already taking his money for military goods (ironically enough) we already "bank" his ill gotten gains at the expense of the citizens of Libya.

If the rebels win all those Gadaffi contracts are worthless. The oil will be supplied to whoever the rebels want and given that the rebels are currently a little on the disorganised side, the west has no idea about the political or ecomonic affiliations of a new libyan government. so its NOT in the (oil) interest of the west to support the rebels.

Now the rebels, free to express what they truly believe on WESTERN television have actually asked the west for help (did you conveniently miss that), the arab league has asked the west for help (did you conveniently miss that ?). Arab (muslim) nations are providing military support (did you conveniently miss that)



I don't care on what level you want to try to justify this, whether it's a US Cruise Missile killing a civilian or Gaddafi's air force killing a civilian, the end result is dead civilians and it's a process once the International Coalition of the Morally Bankrupt, Theiving, and Murderous gets involved keeps on killing for year after year after year.

When Ghadaffi kills civilians they are civilians, when our military does it they are insurgents.

Haven't you actually even questioned what they are doing yet, let alone figured it out, or are you that agenda driven yourself that the horrible price, hypocritical actions and murderous deciet justifyies it all in your mind?

The shame of it all goes beyond the pale, and frankly there is no intelligent or noble way to dress up murder to be appealing to anyone but stone cold murderers.



Correct, dead civilians either way although Gaddafi is know liar as is the gaddafi controlled state television so what is the true number of civilian deaths by the west. Hang on let's check with the BBC journalist in Tripoli......oh dear they have difficulty in confirming the so called deaths claimed by Gaddafi. Now let's zip over Misrati where we find children (confirmed) killed by Gaddafi forces, the doctor in the hospital knows them! They captured gaddafi mercenaries are saying they are paid LYD600 for each dead body returned to Tripoli.

So what is the solution?
A. Support Gaddafi so the oppression and turture continues.
B. Support the rebels with the potential of democratic government following and thus no more civilian deaths
C. A.n. Other solution provided by yourself.........workable not airy fairy illogical , unreal nonsense.

I tire of the bitching and complaining by people and groups who NEVER EVER come up with a solution to a problem but only ever say "we should not have done.....". Solutions require "We need to do......".



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by malcr
 


We have plenty of human rights violations here in the United States with the highest per capita prison population in the world and state executions to boot.

So please you aren't dealing with a weak minded, pie in the sky, liberal simpleton here my friend.

Your over simplification of the various roles that the member nations of the Security Council play in fostering conflicts that they can all profit off of through selling arms and logistical support to the various sides is something best saved for little old ladies from Iowa.

The International Banking Cartel picked up a cool 50 Billion dollars in it's fleecing of Mubarak through sanctions aimed at freezing his accounts. So Gadaffi will be fleeced.

The United States of America is still paying stock and bond investments and loans made in colonial days and rebels who don't honor the existing contracts by previous legally recognized entities end up embargoed like Cuba, Iran and North Korea with what ever International pre-existing assetts and monies they had frozen in a grid lock for ever.

Further it's absolutely absurd that Libya is my problem on Miami Beach or that not wanting to spend my money and reputation on a murderous process of Internationally imposed regime change is doing 'nothing'.

A corrupt government creates the problem "Our corrupt Government" and not going along for the ride is the solution, not going along for the ride and working through the system that they created to corrupt government so they can take us on such rides.

So yeah if you are a brainwashed simpleton who doesn't understand the Hegelian dialect of create problem, create solution and are destined for a life of free range economic slavery as cannon fodder and take some insane ignorant pride in it, then yes your supperficial thinking is absolutely great for a star on your forehead and a flag drapped coffin for your wailing and lamentful loved ones to weep over.

Bully for you!

Yet those of us capable of independent thought, who don't have a vested interest in the Military Industrial Complex, the Oil Companies, and the thinly veiled religious crusades which are the core supporters within the nation for the amoral actions of it's runaway goverment, recognize these War Crimes carried out in our names as what they are.

War Crimes.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and Iraq and Afghanistan are far worse off as are the American people for this kind of arrogant, foolish and very poorly considered thinking you are espousing.

Come on up to the next level friend, the air is fine.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:38 AM
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Libya action unconstitutional.
were all force fed disinfomation to support the war in libya.the main stream media is in over drive to convince the public that were doing the right thing.
have you all noticed how one sided the infomation is we get.

FACTS about libya...1.5m barrels of oil a day coming out of Libya...nightly bombing raids of libya..$100 million in cruise missle's alone.BP are currently drilling in libya waters..gaddafi dont want BP there...the rebels are backed and armed by Abu Yahya al-Libi the al-Qaeda leader,Qaradawi also al-Qaeda called a fatwa on gaddafi,so much for the war on terror.

RT news is a bit more fair sided on the infomation were get from the middle east.



when we get the leaders saying they don't know what the end game is..we should all be worried



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by snapperski
 


Sadly confused leaders, just lead to confused followers, and tragically as long as the majority remain unconvinced about what is really right and what is really wrong, the Corporate Government will do what ever it wants in the vacuum to keep securing resources and racking up the nations debt, further gaining what it wants in the process, and further increasing the obligations of the people to the process through the debt they create.

Some reports have Egyptian special forces arming and leading the rebels, is this what led to Mubarak getting in the way, a refusal to play ball.

Other reports have Libya sitting on top of the largest deposits of fresh ground water in the region that has a great value in an arid part of the world, and perhaps an even greater value as radiation begins to circle the earth from a disaster now almost completely ignored in Japan that is being overshadowed by another telivized round of Shock and Awe in Libya.

We know next to nothing about the 'rebels' that are fighting Gadaffi and what their idealogy is or long range plans for that nation should they succeed in becoming the next Western Backed Puppet Regime in the region.

Considering who we have gotten in bed with an Iraq and Afghanistan chances are we aren't talking about a very wholesome group of people.

We are being lied too, and as we are now involved in a handful of conflicts throughout that region of the world I think it's time for the American people to realize we have an addiction to war and violence, nurtured and grown through our medias and entertainment that really is not making the world a peaceful democratic place, but a violent one full of puppet regimes that we create, for populations that do nothing but resent us for the death and carnage we visit on them and the corrupt political processes we impose on them.

Americans need to come to terms with that our real enemies are in Washington the board rooms of the Oil companies, banks and military industrial manufacturers, and that we are being taxed, and led to violent ruin by them.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Good post man , the only thing I think we are able to do right now is mass protest , and refuse to pay our council taxes in turn for using our VAT and income tax to wage war.

Although a fat lot of good protest will do, the anti iraq protests sent us straight there !
nothing is beyond our government and they dont listen even when we line the streets.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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My prediction is that if this "war" goes on for several weeks, the US will enter with ground troops and walla, a brand new war for the good 'ol USA. Just what we need...more wars. This "anti-war" president has proven to be a real hawk. Obama is a good servant to his NWO owners.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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If it was Russia and China spearheading a war to free a people I have no doubt the US would be against it, if not at least critical of it. In the US they would say "China says they're helping people, but we know better! China has an agenda!" Why does it have to be this way that we're critical of others but not ourselves. Imagine if it was Russia that had intervened in Iraq in 2003.

I think this intervention in Libya is wrong because this resembles a militant revolt or civil war more than it resembles a mass genocide of a dictator against his people. I said it once before, but once the protesters armed themselves and starting fighting, and keeping in mind Libya is kind of tribal, you have to step back and think to yourself whether it's wise or not for us to get involved in a country that's essentially at war with itself. It's not clear what the right choice is.
edit on 22-3-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by romanmel
My prediction is that if this "war" goes on for several weeks, the US will enter with ground troops and walla, a brand new war for the good 'ol USA. Just what we need...more wars. This "anti-war" president has proven to be a real hawk. Obama is a good servant to his NWO owners.


He clearly can't read a tele-prompter either as it's very obvious what was written must have been "Vote for me I am four more years of George Bush".

I sure hope the people learned something through this.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Your view and suspicion's echo my own..and im from london.
hopefully people around the world are starting to see this elite agenda resouce wars for there own gain and wealth,at the cost of our kids and and standard of living.

Im sick to the teeth,of all the bull# were fed,were told our jobs are not safe,we cant get loans,our homes are at risk,bussiness's closeing down like there going out of fashion..but we can finance another invasion.

Dont get me wrong,im not a fan of gaddafi or libya,logic tells me this is not our bussiness,or has any benifit for us common folk.
the only people to gain from this is the arms dealers and oilmen,who line the pockets and families of the politicians.

We go under the disguised of democracy to impose democracy, a democracy broken,unclean,totally corrupt, which has left many years of being the government of the people to become a house of corruption,ultimate power and den of scoundrels.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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You know.... I think Obama got involved because he wants to look tough. I know this is elementary and I'm speaking from ignorance, but if Obama had not got involved he'd be blamed and people would claim he is soft. He'll lose no matter what he does. But I think the real reason he got involved is because he doesn't want to be seen as soft even though we all know he'll lose no matter what he does. Bottom line, this man cares about how others see him, I think. And that drives his life and career choices. Could be why he is president.

It would have looked more responsible if he had asked congress first. It looks like he hasn't. But lets not pretend that this would have changed the outcome. He'll still lose no matter what he does. The bottom line is that it's not clear what to do with this situation in Libya. What people do tells you something about them. I think it tells you about their psychology or something.

This is a chess match. It could be that when the situation is not clear, playing your cards to appear strong is always better. So maybe I'm wrong about losing no matter what. Maybe he got together with his advisors and they told him he should get involved so he doesn't look hesitant. Maybe that's the only reason we're in there. I think this does serve Obama's need to look tough, though. But maybe my post here has skipped over the strategical value to appearing strong as opposed to appearing soft. What do you think? When a situation isn't clear, is it better to look strong, or does this only serve those who feel compelled to look strong?

But we don't like it when Russia or China tries to appear strong, do we? Why is it only good when we do it or our allies do it? We like it when those who we disagree with are soft.
edit on 22-3-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Originally posted by romanmel
My prediction is that if this "war" goes on for several weeks, the US will enter with ground troops and walla, a brand new war for the good 'ol USA. Just what we need...more wars. This "anti-war" president has proven to be a real hawk. Obama is a good servant to his NWO owners.


He clearly can't read a tele-prompter either as it's very obvious what was written must have been "Vote for me I am four more years of George Bush".

I sure hope the people learned something through this.


Right-o, ProTrav.

W and Obama have the same owners. W couldn't talk at all and Obama only says what his owners print on that tele-prompter. Some call it leadership...



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by phantomjack
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Obama's ILLEGAL WAR FOR OIL!!! Where is Haliburton? I guarantee they will be involved too. Its time for you liberals to apologize for smearing Bush! Even your messiah (burp, anti-christ) is a war monger.

War for oil. War for oil. War for Oil!


Liberals and concervatives - both war mongering fools. It's time both of your parties apologize for duping the people of the world for so long.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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Well, its a illegitimate war hid behind very loose laws and lawyer doublespeak overall....like every other war for the last 60 years.
Its arguably not a war, but my personal definition of a war is, when we send more than like 2 bombs in 1 nation within a year, then ya, its a war (before that, it could be a misfire..
)

so ya, the last proper war we had was WW2, that was brought and sent through congress, offically declared, etc...

Is it the right thing to do? Well, then you get into a murky area...there are alot of idiots and arses around the world that could use a wakeup call of bombs, however, we go back to is America...or any western nation singular or in a group to be the world police?

I think there does need to be somewhat of a world police force. More nations than just a handful of western nations need to be part of it and a very clear mandate put in place of exactly what is considered illegal, which nations pay what percent for furthering it, etc...


As far as the threat level of libya to the US...well, the japanese bombed pearl harbor, we went to war. Afghanistan trained terrorists bombed the world trade center, we went to war. Gadaffi orchistrated the lockerbee bombings...we dragged our feet on this one for 30 years, but ya, seems we now are going to war...

The only thing I sorta like about this particular war is at least "they" are being up front about the reasonings...is he a threat to the US? not really. Does he have WMDs or something? Naa...so why are we going in? Oh, right...cause he is a jerk bombing his own citizens and should we help out, the new regime will owe us one verses have a anti-west new jerk sitting in there bitterly.

Not saying that reason should therefore make policy...just saying its refreshing to have the clear reasons verses hidden behind anthrax vials and telling us to buy duct tape.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Excellant post and well thought out.

The Middle East right now is being groomed by the Globalists while they build up for the final surprise blow upon these people and unfortunately they are going to lash out on the "one & only" with as much force like never before. The end game will be the bloodiest, most lethal and dirtiest war known to mankind.

The North Africans are only a skip hop and a jump to Europe. Because the USA is so far from the Middle east and North Africa, they are going to go for the jagular - ALL your friends within and close to that region!

Libya is not the final stop either.

We are THE collaterial damage. You think they care? They don't give a damn. They want a vast reduction in population anyhow.

I'm mystified how the American military does whatever they are ordered to do without question; is there no morality or ethics among the military? No soldier is beyond judgement. It's supposed to go like this....God, nation, family. Now it's Globalists instead of God, to hell with your nation, and stuff your family.

Perhaps the American Govt should just come out and bloody well tell the whole truth and stop their blatant lies; I'm stunned they are now plotting the demise of their own people and that of other nations right before our very eyes....and they're getting away with it. The one true fear they, the "powers to be" do have, is when we all catch on and rise up against them. Well, we are waking up and we ARE catching on to their game. They've already prepared for the onslaught to protect themselves. In the mean time they continue to take your liberty away from you, have your private parts touched by TSA peeps, subject you to 50 times the amount of radiation of an Xray machine, feed you with GMO, pour filth in your waterways and tell you which vaccines to take because they say you need it.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:05 AM
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I find it hilarious that we go in to save these rebel civilians from military troops trying to act like were so friendly (when our own gov kills innocent civilians every day, foreign and domestic), yet if the american people finally got tired of this government and tried to rebel/overthrow the exact same situation would occur, except nobody from the rest of the world would come try to save us since we would all be "terrorists"



Its starting to look like the plot is to completely bankrupt us all so sweeping in the NWO with their new currency to "save us" is easier.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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To those saying this is just a no-fly zone....

www.usatoday.com...


On Wednesday, some 400 U.S. Marines from the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, based at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, arrived at the U.S. Souda Bay on the Greek island of Crete, base spokesman Paul Farley said.

He said they had been deployed "as part of contingency planning to provide the president (Barack Obama) flexibility on full range of option regarding Libya," along with the amphibious assault ships USS Kearsarge and USS Ponce which have been ordered to Mediterranean.


Pretty obvious what is going to happen. They'll decide they can't protect the rebels from the air without causing casualties, so the Marines will go in. Benghazi is right on the water so it will be tailor-made for an amphibious landing. And BHAM! the US is occupying another country.



posted on Mar, 22 2011 @ 12:23 PM
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The President has to power to act unilaterally without Congressional approval - it's called the War Powers Act. Before you talk about impeachment, read the rules of the game.



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