An Open Rant / Letter to Vincent Kennedy McMahon

reply to post by TNTarheel

Yeah. I don't really know what that stunt double thing is about.
It is on wiki, and the actual sentence itself is not really structured correctly (It just doesn't sound right). So I'm thinking that some idiot just added that in and really has no clue what he was talking about.

OR.. I could be the one who doesn't know what he's talking about and maybe I'm the idiot lol.

Regarding the "stunt double" statement....

This is Wiki and there can be mistakes or misinterpretations in it.

But, that aside, the only reason I can think of stunt doubles being used is for the "work" vignette segments, the video clips where wrestlers are hit by cars, attacked in the street, etc.

Just a thought.

I had to look it up to find out for sure.
The Ultimate Warrior
I forgot what his move was called- The Gorilla Press Slam- now that took pure strength and power. The average ballerina can't do that.

In 1995, The Renegade debuted in WCW as Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage's "secret weapon," using ring attire and mannerisms that closely resembled Warrior's, even going so far as referring to the then-unseen Renegade prior to the event in which he debuted as their "Ultimate Surprise". Renegade was later used as Warrior's stunt double when Warrior himself was in WCW for a brief time in 1998.

I haven't read that entire article yet, but I think I can remember this now, and 'stunt double' is a bad choice of words. The Warrior left W##, but Renegade was pretending to be The Warrior. Took over The Real Warrior's upcoming matches. similar body build and height; same paint and other attire. You could tell the difference, but he made a decent look-alike replacement.
**I think. it's been awhile and just going from memory.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


wasnt trying to poke fun at OPs age lol though it does look kinda bad, Im sure he understood what I meant.

Originally posted by Hefficide

Regarding the "stunt double" statement....

the only reason I can think of stunt doubles being used is for the "work" vignette segments, the video clips where wrestlers are hit by cars, attacked in the street, etc.

Just a thought.

That's an angle I hadn't considered! I guess I just assumed that each wrestler did their own stunt work regardless of the situation. Naive, huh

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
The Warrior left W##, but Renegade was pretending to be The Warrior. Took over The Real Warrior's upcoming matches. similar body build and height; same paint and other attire. You could tell the difference, but he made a decent look-alike replacement.

It seems I vaguely remember thinking that Warrior didn't quite look like himself. BUT, as demonstrated, I have senior moments



This has been a delightful walk down memory lane! Thank you, Heff, for the chance to relive some "glory days".

And as for YOU, Vincent McMahon: stop watering down our wrestling! Without the consumer, there is no market. Guard yours with care!! There's an old saying where I come from: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

You should not be sad that you ar enot watching WWE right now. I say this because lately it has bceome too scripted. I say that because you can actually tell what is going to happen next who is going to win a match. With wrestlemania coming up you can have a good idea of who is going to win. I would think about looking at TNA which does a good job on the unpredictable side of things. Which I think you have to have when you know things are scripted.

reply to post by Hefficide


Ahhh, this takes me back. I've been a fan since the days of George Becker and Johnny Weaver wrestling Rip "The Profile" Hawk and Swede Hanson for the Mid-Atlantic Tag Team Titles. I remember wrestlers like Argentina Apollo vs. The Missouri Mauler, Gene and Ole Anderson, Johnny Valentine, and even the jobbers like George "Two Ton" Harris and Don Kernodle. I liked the classic lines from guys like Ric Flair, "Remember ladies, you can't be the first ... but ... you can be next!" and Wahoo McDaniels, "I'm not saying he's not a tough man, I know he's a tough man, I've seen some of the women he's been out with."

Hefficide, in your letter to Mr. McMahon, you should have included a challenge for a Wrestlemania match for control of the company. Make it a no holds barred match and hide a stun gun in your trunks. Keep the safety on until you pull it out, though.

Originally posted by strawberry91
wasnt trying to poke fun at OPs age lol though it does look kinda bad, Im sure he understood what I meant.

Yeah, I didn't think you were actually 'poking fun' lol.
I just thought it was funny, and wanted to point it out to you.
I figured you didn't even think about it that way.

Heff
Dude, you are a man of hope.
Your crush is over.
It has been crushed by the object of your affection.

Your post tells it all.
It is the Big Top. A wonderful phantasmagoric sensation sweeping us away.

I watched wrestling in the late fifties when I was sure my mother would not catch me.
My father watched boxing weekly but would have nothing to do with wrestling.
He said it was phony and boxing wasn't. I was lucky some times. Sometimes when he was done with boxing ,he would leave me to the TV and I would switch to wrestling until my mother would notice.
So I snuck.

You probably know of the movie "Requiem for a Heavyweight" starring Anthony Quinn. Quinn plays an aging boxer who has fought his last bout and is forced into the wrestling industry. It is a movie about capitulation and continued hope. After this my father increased his antagonism for wrestling and his ridicule for me for liking it.
I stopped watching

By the time I began to watch it again I was in my late 20's. By that time I was old enough to know the ways of the world a little better. I had begun to learn how people could be caught up in things, lost in things.
I had begun to learn about entertainment, how it could thrill us and how it could manipulate us.

I watched from the sidelines until The Hulk showed up and I was swept away. Swept away until he changed is stripes and shook me out of the dream. But oh man. I mean, Randy the Macho Man Savage, was there EVER?????

I knew it was a blend of reflection and manipulation. It presented it's product to the market and it's ever-changing characters and plot lines reflected the markets appetite for new and and more bizarre behavior. And it grew and in growing found itself addicted to a pattern of profit driven economics. It had learned beyond a shadow of a doubt the great fortunes to be made by finding others addictions and exploiting them. Once the addiction was recognized the balance between reflection and manipulation was tipped. The subtle tendrils of "I can make you want" continued to wrap themselves around the audiences in a keep growing,keep merging and keep buying out "winner take all" dance.

One day my youngest boy, now in his late teens said dad, ya gotta watch this. I said "what" and he said wrestling. I hold him I wasn't interested and he said ya gotta watch this guy and he turned on Goldberg. I had managed to keep wrestling at arms length for a while but GOLDBERG? We watched until Goldberg went to Japan and my son moved out. Then I watched some more.

Always entertained and always shocked. Dumbfounded and left in awe. My adult friends would look askance at me and say " Terry " it's phony, leaving me speechless. They were blind. Not only was it a drama of human physical elegance and a drama of human degradation it was also a drama about a corporate megalith in the making.

McMahon was a wonder. Always staying in shape. Insisting that his family and all others take their lumps in the ring. The moxie. Machiavelli to the fullest. How he could stand in the ring and belittle the addicted hoards by telling them the truth and have them believe it was only part of the act will go down in history. Masterful.

Anyway Heff, I was touched by your post and wanted to share with you my own convoluted relationship with With wrestling.

Below is link to another wrestling thread by monkeywrench30 in which I left a few other observations.

Yours.





monkeywrench30 question

originally posted by: Hefficide

Those who know me personally are aware of my shameful little secret... I enjoy watching wrestling on the television. I just cannot help myself. As a boy, of about 10 or 11 years old, I came across a televised wrestling show, hosted by Gordon Solie, and I was instantly hooked. On my screen I saw characters who were like super heroes, but weren't simply animations on a page - they were real flesh and blood human beings. Chief Wahoo McDaniels, Bruiser Brody, Adrian Street, The Brisco Brothers, Harley Race... Bigger than life characters who piqued my curiosity and pulled me in.

It was magical. It is intended to be magical. It is theater, after all. Some folks become spell bound watching plays, or the opera... For me it was watching Jimmy Snuka fly off the top of a cage. I lacked the words to explain the magic, then, and I still, for the most part, lack them now.

i know im 4 years late, but i have to say, i agree with you.. to wwe, wrestling is a very bad word.. vince doesnt want to tie himself down to just one entity. i remember going to robarts arena in sarasota fl in the 80s to see sullivan, funk, dusty, windham, lugar.. to me wrestling was like superheros.. now, the guys do not even try to be good.. do u notice the basically all do the same moves, same style and none of these guys are over?? shoot i remember old skool wwe where the enhancement talent like sd jones, steve lombardi etc. were over like rover... jusr seeing the guys in the ring when you were live was like a special attraction. i remember when andre only came on tv 10 times a year and was mystical but today, big show is on every episode and gets beat by guys just coming up... its a true joke.

thanks for listening
Bud316

And, yes... oh God, yes... I know it is scripted. I know it is, in all honesty, little more than a highly refined circus side show act - taken to stellar levels with pyrotechnics and loud music. But, even knowing, I still get caught up.

As a fan I've lived through the days of televised wrestling events coming from school auditoriums and small clubs. I've lived through Monday Night wars. I remember the days, before the lawsuits, when my favorite company was the WWF. I also remember when I couldn't bear to watch Hulk Hogan telling me to eat my vitamins, while wearing neon clothing - causing me to turn off the WWF and begin watching WCW.

I remember the attitude era.

I remember discovering ECW and forsaking both of the big two.

I remember the "invasion" that brought me home to the WWF - only to have to retrain my brain, shortly thereafter, into thinking of it as the WWE.

Over the years I have come and gone from the fold of fanhood. Currently I do not have cable and am constantly thinking about the poor decision, on your part, to have all of your programming on cable networks... The number of fans you are missing is probably substantial. But I've never judged that, business is business, after all. Still, it is not uncommon for me, on Monday nights, to find myself wishing I did have the extra cash to throw at cable - and wondering just what is happening on RAW.

Not a day goes by that I don't check the online dirt sheets to read about your product Mr. McMahon. Not a single day. I still keep up with it, even as a 44 year old man. Even after watching for more than three decades, buying numerous PPV events, and attending a few live ones... I have not burned out yet. My DVD collection is cluttered with your products, and I watch them often. I am what your demographic sheets don't seem to be able to peg down with simple numbers. Mr. McMahon, I am a die hard, life long fan.

So, imagine my surprise when I wake up today and come across an article that includes this:

Whoooa Nellie! When Brands Go Horribly Wrong: Psst--Vince McMahon and the WWE Are No Longer In the Wrestling Business. Publicist Alerts the Media.

Next thing I know, I’ve received an email from one Kellie Baldyga, a publicist for WWE, DEMANDING that we correct the story. She also copied our owner, Rance Crain, on the email.

What had drawn her ire was the headline. Baldyga wrote in her email, “We are no longer a wrestling company but rather a global entertainment company with a movie studio, international licensing deals, publisher of three magazines, consumer good distributor and more.”

Sour ce

The basis of the article is that a writer penned an article questioning Drew Carey being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame - and he used the word "wrestling" in said article. A WWE publicist contacted him and asked him to remove the word "wrestling" immediately.

Her statement was that they don't call their events "wrestling". They call them "entertainments".

What???

Mr. McMahon do you recall how much fun you had making fun of Ted Turner when he banned the words "foreign object" from WCW, ruling that the word "foreign" MUST be replaced with the word "international"? Do you recall you and your staff having a field day discussing wrestlers bringing "international objects" into the ring?

I do.

Now this? Mr. McMahon, it is my humble and respectful opinion that you have lost touch with the core of what it is that your fans want and think. Just as Ted Turner once did. Your company IS WORLD WRESTLING ENTERTAINMENT! The word wrestling is in there. While I completely understand your desire to branch out and to become a fully fledged movie studio / record label / total media company, I cannot begin to fathom how you'd try to downplay the very nature of this branch of your empire???

IT'S WRESTLING MR. MCMAHON! If you require me to call them superstars and divas? So be it. If you wish that I think and speak in euphemism and call it "sports entertainment"? Fine. But to sick publicists on writers who use the "W" word in any context while describing your product? Poor form Mr. McMahon. Very poor form.

You can easily distance your movie and music products from the "sports entertainment" arm of your empire. Doing this would not upset the fans at all. Even if we all know that you do use the wrestling arm of your company as a means of building these other ventures. You put SUPERSTARS in your movies so that your SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT (WRESTLING) FANS WILL BE A BUILT IN AUDIENCE!

But this... This Mr. McMahon feels like you are ashamed of us, the fans of this product. And, frankly, the event has left me wondering if I care to patronize your product on any level, at all. If you are that embarrassed of me, a wrestling fan, who has always stood by your product, even when others mocked it and me for liking it... For you to act ashamed of me? I find it disturbing.

If I were you I think I might make some peace with the word "wrestling". After all it is the word that made you rich.

Even so, I do thank you for 30 years of enjoyment. Now it's up to you whether I'll have 30 more.

~Heff