My first issues with the Bible.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

And what if the one true God is one that doesn't demand unquestioning worship? What single piece of evidence shows which version of God is correct?

Nothing personal, but I have trouble wrapping my mind around sentences with double negatives. Are you saying "what if the one true God is one that demands questioning worship?" If so, I think we both agree that He expects us to find the truth. We should question, that's how we find the way. Ask, says Jesus. bible.cc...

reply to post by Jim Scott

Sure, because the word for God in Genesis is Elohim, which is plural. Eloi is singular. Elohim is more than one. The Torah states that God is plural in its language. The Trinity comes into play when you see it says God made man in His image. It does not say images.

And you don't think that could in any way mean Gods.

Let us (Gods) make man in our (Gods) own image.

You wouldn't say, Let us humans make man in our own images, would you?

Could it be possible that more than one holy text was written as a factual account of the times? Is it possible that "God" sent many messengers to Earth, and the teachings, stories, morals, etc were all from the same place, only the fine details were slightly twisted simply due to interpretation? All of this resulting in slightly different stories?

Originally posted by DrCarter
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

No problem Jim, great reply. I agree we didn't evolve from monkeys, just throwing the AA thing out as a possible topic of debate. You have proved my only point which is we can all have a discussion without attacking over differences of opinion.

Thanks. You're right. Some Christians are a lot further down the road of truth seeking, and it really helps to answer questions for those who are not. There will always be ridicule. It goes with it. After all, they crucified our Lord.

Originally posted by virraszto
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

Sure, because the word for God in Genesis is Elohim, which is plural. Eloi is singular. Elohim is more than one. The Torah states that God is plural in its language. The Trinity comes into play when you see it says God made man in His image. It does not say images.

And you don't think that could in any way mean Gods.

Let us (Gods) make man in our (Gods) own image.

You wouldn't say, Let us humans make man in our own images, would you?

Sorry, but I would have to change the text of the Bible to come to that conclusion. As it reads, it's Gods and one image. There is, btw, a lot on the internet about proof of the Trinity in scriptures. I can post some if you like.

reply to post by Jim Scott


No double negative there. Re-worded and emphasized:

What if the
://only true God//:
is one who
://does not demand//:
to be
://worshiped without question//:.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


its no surprise, Satan and his angels fell from heaven to the earth, So its no common misconseption people have the idea of space people with wings that were flying and offered wisdom and knowledge to mankind.

you got to remember satan isnt a fictional sub conciouss diety, He is real, And he HATES MAN with a burning evil passion, He comes to steal kill and to destroy

reply to post by ChaosComplex


In my opinion there is some history and accounts of people or beings that where blown out of proportion. Or glorified over the years into folklore and myths.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
Could it be possible that more than one holy text was written as a factual account of the times? Is it possible that "God" sent many messengers to Earth, and the teachings, stories, morals, etc were all from the same place, only the fine details were slightly twisted simply due to interpretation? All of this resulting in slightly different stories?

Good point, but you would have to make an assumption. I find that if I make assumptions, they lead me off the path of truth. Probably best to just use what there is and follow where it leads.
The Bible is, like, a book of 66 separate books written by, I think, 44 authors, that when put together in 300 something AD after the Council of Nicea is virtually error-free. Lots of books have been written to explain the apparent discrepancies. I have read enough of them to come to the conclusion that there are no discrepancies of note, and certainly nothing that would affect the message. For example, when they dug up the Dead Sea Scrolls, which had been buried for 2000 years, there was a complete book of Isaiah in there. The book was exactly like the one in our present day Bible, but there were eleven differences mostly in punctuation or spelling.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
reply to post by Jim Scott

 

No double negative there. Re-worded and emphasized:

What if the
://only true God//:
is one who
://does not demand//:
to be
://worshiped without question//:.

not + without = with

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by ChaosComplex

 

its no surprise, Satan and his angels fell from heaven to the earth, So its no common misconseption people have the idea of space people with wings that were flying and offered wisdom and knowledge to mankind.

you got to remember satan isnt a fictional sub conciouss diety, He is real, And he HATES MAN with a burning evil passion, He comes to steal kill and to destroy

You got that right, bro. The Bible calls him "The Prince of the Power of the Air"

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


If they "fell" to Earth, what made this happen? Why the fall from high in the sky? Is heaven a physical place? If heaven is a place only able to be experienced after death, then it must exist in a way that we can't understand yet. That still doesn't explain how "beings" can "fall" to Earth from a place that doesn't even exist on the same plane.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


God only send one down to earth, And that was his son Christ jesus, To show the way the truth and the life.
There is no other way to the father than through the son.

Every other religion, Or story or creation of of Gods other than the holy bible, Is a lie, And if you choose to believe that lie, well then your being part of the grand deception, Satan planned as soon as he fell to earth from heaven, We should be wise because the Devil is wiser than any other creature of the earth, He was gods right hand before he tried to take over gods throne, In the battle in heaven written in revelation when lucifer(light bearer) and his angels fought against GOD and the hosts of heaven,

If you accept that satan is dumb and he is not real, well then you really are decieved, Because this is what he wants people to think hes not real, and that he is stupid, But even GOD said that satan is very wise and cunning.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


I say the war in heaven never happened...

reply to post by Jim Scott


That is correct, however it is only correct if the words are just as you put them, not without. In my statement, the words not and without are used to describe separate phrases. He does NOT demand to be worshiped WITHOUT question.

Just as you would NOT demand that I agree with you, WITHOUT question.

All that aside, I really appreciate the few people actually keeping this somewhat civil!

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
reply to post by InnerstellarOne

 

If they "fell" to Earth, what made this happen? Why the fall from high in the sky? Is heaven a physical place? If heaven is a place only able to be experienced after death, then it must exist in a way that we can't understand yet. That still doesn't explain how "beings" can "fall" to Earth from a place that doesn't even exist on the same plane.

Thanks for the question. Hope all this is helping. Fall could mean fall from grace. As we know, the angels and man were created around the same time, since nothing existed prior to the 6 day creation. Satan and the angels were removed from heaven because they rebelled, so it goes. What we do see is Satan trying to destroy God's creation and salvation of man...first in Eve, then in Cain, and ultimately in the crucifixion. However, since the crucifixion was finished successfully without interruption from Satan, we have all won. Thank God (meant as an expletive, not as a suggestion).

reply to post by notsofunnyguy


I agree about the tithing thing, but perhaps from a different perspective.

To me, you give out of a sense of helping someone else and sacrificing something that's 'of you', for a higher cause

... and you're never going to get it back.

Whenever I see some tele-evangelist going on about "seed faith" it makes me want to grind my teeth.

These same guys never seem to have anything to say about Jesus mission and goals.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


LIGHT BEARER!! Can you explain this to me? This is a subject that intrigues me to no end! Why is Lucifer referred to as the bearer of light?

OP first you asked this ?

So following that logic, would it be safe to postulate that to know God, one must first understand science?

Then you made this claim.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
There had to be some process in the creation of the universe. I mean no matter how powerful, there is no way that every molecule and every atom were created instantaneously and simultaneously. That process is what we would call Science.

This in particular.:

It may be science FAAARRR more complicated than we understand, but science either way.

edit on 3/20/2011 by ChaosComplex because: (no reason given)

If we can not understand science to the extent God does? Then no, we do not have to understand science to know God.

'Our' in this case might mean all of us as eternal spirits. We are currently fallen spirits in bio-mechanical suites, living in a material universe. We are here to gain faith, hope and love so we can escape death (and I believe rebirth back to a water body). John ch 3

'Our' may also mean the council of God. In Job, the council of God meets to discuss His uprightness. Satan is also present, but does not seem to be named as part of the others. In John 1 we see that Christ is the 'Word" and created all things. The 'Word' could also refer to the idea of LOGOS. Remember that there are multiple meanings that all point to the same thing. Word is a wave. Light is both a wave and a particle (duality). Light was used in creation and so was Word. Both particle and wave makes up all you see around you. It's important to know this for what I say later.

Hebrews 11:3 says, " 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." Spirit is consciousness. Matter is made from particle and wave which are essentially only there by the consciousness of the observer. We do not have access behind the veil so we can only guess here.

Christ is also called the first and last Adam. He was there before creation. We are also Adam.

“For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. . . . The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.” (1 Corinthians 15:21–22; 15:45–47).

I have a hunch about this but can't prove my hunch because of two uncertainties.

1. I can't prove reincarnation.
2. I can't prove a connection between the legend of Hermes and what I suspect about him.

Here's my hunch: I think that Adam had to live through history to pay for his mistake and fix the fall of man. He realizes this as the final Adam (Christ). Enoch, Moses and Joseph were probably responsible for the legend of the 'Three times great Hermes'. Is it possible that these three figures in history were Christ? Possibly all the critical Biblical figures? I also suspect that Enoch built the pyramids to preserve key knowledge for Joseph and Moses to eventually carry back to Israel. We find a hint of this on Wikipedia under the 'Hermes' page. Enoch walked with God for 300 years and never died. Of course, some of this is not verified, mostly because we have no evidence of reincarnation as fact. Only hints that this may be the process for all of us. This is what I think is probable from my own studies.

Although any interpretation of Heavenly reality is possible, the following is my best guess for the connection to the 'Our' in the first part of Genesis:

Since God does not exist in a temporal reality, time is not relevant. We are ALL the 'our' of these verses. Your body is a bio-mechanical suit you wear, connected to your spirit by the soul. The soul is like a modem. Since your spirit is eternal, it has existed and will exist for eternity. Eternity is not connected to time. It just IS. Your body is the only corporeal part of your being. Salvation is essentially keeping your soul's connection to the spirit apart from the material world. Going to Hell may represent an eternally lost soul. The choice to be saved is Atonement, or At-One-Ment with God (walking with and not against). Christ paid the cost to redeem your soul from being born back into water. Instead, you are born again into the spirit. See John chapter 3. If reincarnation is true, you escape the 'Hell' of the material world. If it is untrue, you have one shot to get it right and Hell may be a literal place of fire and brimstone. Either way, life is an education to teach you faith, hope and love. 1 Corinthians 13. I go with reincarnation since this easily explains evil and divine justice.

My advice would be to keep in mind that anything is possible since we live in a shadow of the true light. God casts only the light we can stand and reveals only the information (enlightenment) we need to know. Light (consciousness from God) emanates to make creation, but we only notice the shadow it creates. This is how we are the image of the true spirit reality which is God. This current existence is merely the illusion of what is real (matrix if you wish to call it that). One day we will be with the light. Only God really knows how it all works and why we suffer for ultimate reward. As far as I am concerned, it's an initiation. All is revealed when Christ returns. The original choice in the garden was our choice to seek our own reward, or seek to walk with God of our education. By the first man, 'Our' choice was to walk our own path. Christ is 'our' choice to walk again with God.

My opinion only. I'll continue to work to be worthy of Grace, which is unmerited favor from God. AMAZING!!!! any way you look at it. Choose humility over pride. It's simple. Trust God for all else.