My first issues with the Bible.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

No. Because Jesus existed before his body was born. We did not. We are created with goals, we have the free will to reach them or not, and then we are judged on what we did. Based on those prescribed goals? Who knows. Jesus is the only one whom had to manifest to human form for he was to be God amongst us. Elijah was born like any other man. But like Enoch, he was loved by God and taken to somewhere beyond. This is not reincarnation. for it is explicitly stated they are who they are. They are not new flesh. They are not new people. They are themselves, fully aware of whom they are. Names are very important in the Bible. This is why God is often left unnamed.

If it was reincarnation, it would be very simply written "John, who was Elijah before".

oh Jesus existed before he was born. Ummm what Origen called the pre-existence of the soul. Cha ching. Who says we did not pre exist before we were born? What goals were we created with? Yes we are judged, but not by merely one lifetime, but many lifetimes of choices. What is taking God so long to judge the wicked? Names are so important in the Bible that the Archangel Gabriel gifves Elijah a different name at his birth than the one that everyone knows is prophesied to return? I find it fascinating that they even expected him to return. Maybe they knew about reincarnation. Surely when the disciples asked about John the Baptist being Elijah, they figured out it was the reincarnation of Elijah. It was written it was John who was Elijah before, which is what we have been talking about all this time. You know "then the disciples knew that Jesus had been talking to them about John the Baptist". remember that? God being left unnamed had nothing to do with names being important or unimportant. It was Jewish tradition not to speak the name of God so they dont take his name in vain. Maybe that's what you meant?

Indeed again in Matthew 11 Jesus calls John the Baptist THE Elijah, as a title, not a person

Oh ok, its just a title. What is the purpose of that?
You just seem to be making up stuff as you go....

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


Create is not carve. I hate to sound semantic, but it's an odd usage I think, although I do understand what you mean. It sounds more like an allegory anyway. There's a lot of that in the Bible. People take everything so literally. Perhaps it was a poetic way of putting it before they had science.

oh Jesus existed before he was born. Ummm what Origen called the pre-existence of the soul. Cha ching. Who says we did not pre exist before we were born? What goals were we created with? Yes we are judged, but not by merely one lifetime, but many lifetimes of choices.

Heres a few more examples for you TEoH

Might help your arguement

Jer 1-5
5Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Job 19:25 I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; 27 I myself will see him with my own eyes-I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!

And as he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. And his disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who has sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?" Jesus answered, 'Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him.'" (John 9:1)

reply to post by Gorman91

God clearly rested

I know this drives you crazy but the Hindus called it the Inbreath, when God sleeps, and the outbreath when he is awake, and this goes on in endless cycles. Pretty cosmic stuff if you ask me. Even the Discovery channel or the History Channel isnt that interesting.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Your inability to separate facts given to what you believe, IE critical thinking, is absolutely amazing to me.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


God did not sleep. he rested. And that day has not come yet. For God still works in the world. And it is not rest anyway. It is like an artist at the completion of his work seeing what he did and enjoying it. What drives me crazy is your inability to separate what you believe with the facts given. Lacking critical thinking ability is rampant this generation.

reply to post by Akragon


Thank you, very nice examples.

reply to post by Akragon


Yes. God is outside of time. He knew you when he made you. That doesn't mean you existed before you were born. Like to Mr Eye, A = B does not mean B = A. Critically think.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Your inability to separate facts given to what you believe, IE critical thinking, is absolutely amazing to me.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

God did not sleep. he rested. And that day has not come yet. For God still works in the world. And it is not rest anyway. It is like an artist at the completion of his work seeing what he did and enjoying it. What drives me crazy is your inability to separate what you believe with the facts given. Lacking critical thinking ability is rampant this generation.

edit on 23-3-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Gormy you are taking issue with the idea of God sleeping ? For crying out loud, with as much of the Bible as is allegorical, you seem to have a need like so many others to take every thing so frikken literal. Talk about separating facts from fiction, critical thinking? You do not give facts, you give opinions. It is your opinion that Jesus pre-existed but we did not. It is your opinion that the disciples and Jesus did not mean reincarnation when they talked about John being Elijah. Most of what you have said is conjecture. Most likely based on the opinions of equally non-thinking people.
So where did God rest Gormy, since you know so much? Where? Up in a literal heaven somewhere on a lazyboy chair?
I blew your critical thinking out of the water. You pretend to be so scientific and yet all your thinking about the Bible is completely magical.


And what generation am I gorm????? And also you got my gender wrong.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Akragon

 

Yes. God is outside of time. He knew you when he made you. That doesn't mean you existed before you were born. Like to Mr Eye, A = B does not mean B = A. Critically think.

edit on 23-3-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

How could you not have existed if energy can not be created or destroyed?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Sir, if you are not going to take it literal, then you can bend it to whatever you want. It is literal, or it is a lie. Take it or leave it. Don't bend it to whatever you were indoctrinated to in your youth and or age. Never did I give an opinion. I took it as it is said, in plain simple words. Literally. And the Bible literally says, you have been given this life and this life alone. Again, take it or leave it. Don't mutilate it to fit your world view. For you see, if I were to give you my opinion, it is that the word is dead. It is that God is dead and if he did exist, he certainly does not care. To be Christian is to face that opinion with defiance based of the literal scriptural truth.

So whereas you see me as forming opinion of the bible based off what I think i know, the truth is that I am confronting my opinion with the literal truth of the Bible. I could hardly care what you think I am. Truth is, I don't even know. What I do know is that that book is literal truth. And thus, what I think is true is irrelevant.

reply to post by Gorman91


"Woe be unto you, ungodly men, which have forsaken the law of the most high God: for if you increase it shall be to your destruction. And if you be born, you shall be born to a curse� Ecclesiasticus 41:8-9, KJV, 1611 Edition, Apocrypha"

"Flavius Josephus, born 37 C.E., died after 93 C.E., is the most well know Jewish historian. He was a Pharisee, born Joseph ben Matthias who served as a commander in Galilee in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. His Jewish Antiquities, written about 93 C.E., describes the history of the Jews from the Creation onward with a particularly full account of the Maccabees and the dynasty of Herod. Reincarnation runs through his works like salt through a salt shaker. He talks of rebirth in such a matter-of-fact way that one must assume it was an accepted way of thinking which was so common at the time that it did not merit any further explanation. Many historians believe the previously mentioned discussions between Jesus and the disciples involving rebirth are the same. There was no expounding of the doctrine because it was so commonly understood.
'The bodies of all men are, indeed, mortal, and are created out of corruptible matter; but the soul is ever immortal, and is a portion of the divinity that inhabits our bodies. . . . Do not you know, that those who depart out of this life according to the laws of nature . . . enjoy eternal fame; that their houses and posterity are sure; that their souls are pure and obedient, and obtain a most holy place in heaven, from whence, in the revolution of ages, they are again sent . . . into bodies; while the souls of those whose hands have acted madly against themselves are received by the darkest place in Hades?' The Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Wiston


source:
reincarnation.ws...

reply to post by Gorman91


"About reincarnation, Origen has this to say:
'If it can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body and that it is worse off in the body than out of it, then beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrawise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated. They are thus ever vanishing and ever reappearing. Origen, from A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, P. Schaff and H. Wace editors

By some inclination toward evil, certain spirit souls come into bodies, first of men; then, due to their association with the irrational passions after the allotted span of human life, they are changed into beasts, from which they sink to the level of plants. From this condition they rise again through the same stages and are restored to their heavenly place.Origen, On First Principles, B. W. Butterworth, translator."

reincarnation.ws...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


This man is not Jesus. So why should I care? Also it says right there increase. IE, breed. Not reborn.

reply to post by Gorman91


Oh yes, and I was NOT indoctrinated as a youth. My parents were Episcopalian, but stopped going to church when I was 7. Do not forget that I am free thinking enough that I practiced yoga at 17, and still later learned about Christianity on my own.

Here is something Kabbalistic:
"The following is a quote from the Sephar ha Zohar.
'The souls must re-enter the Absolute, from whence they have emerged. But to accomplish this end they must develop the perfections; the germ of which is planted in them. And if they have not developed these traits in this one life, then they must commence another, a third, and so forth. They must go on like this until they acquire the condition that allows them to associate again with God. The Zohar'
The "germ" that is planted in them which leads to the "perfections" is the I AM; it is our oneness in Christ."
reincarnation.ws...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


What on Earth does that have to do with anything? Does doing yoga as a Christian make you open minded? Fail to see how. Does not being born Christian make you not indoctrinated? Fail to see how. You are seen through your fruits. Which thus far has been to criticize the literal truth of the bible and adopt it to some kind of pre-conditioned truth not found in there. You do not apply it to what you think you know. You reject what you know in favor of what it says. This is what the bible is for.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

This man is not Jesus. So why should I care? Also it says right there increase. IE, breed. Not reborn.

The doctrine of the Trinity is articulated by Tertullian. He is not Jesus is he? Yet you accept this doctrine because he believed it to be hinted at. Try again.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Like I said a long time ago. Two people can come up with the same results. This does not make them codependent.

I ask you the same as long ago. How is the trinity not true in the Bible?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

What on Earth does that have to do with anything? Does doing yoga as a Christian make you open minded? Fail to see how. Does not being born Christian make you not indoctrinated? Fail to see how. You are seen through your fruits. Which thus far has been to criticize the literal truth of the bible and adopt it to some kind of pre-conditioned truth not found in there. You do not apply it to what you think you know. You reject what you know in favor of what it says. This is what the bible is for.

Far more open minded than you. But the point of my statement was to show that I was not indoctrinated by my parents, as you so deftly asserted as if you knew my family. No, I do not criticize literal truths. I have left it to you to ignore what is in front of you. You take everything literal, and yet do not see what is in front of you.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Oh I do see what's in front of me. Hell you just added straws to make your case true. never said a word of your parents. You added that point in to justify your pointless preaching of your yoga and other unrelated straws.

You know, building an argument off of straws off of straws off of straws only makes your argument weaker the further you go. Now you are altering in topics.

Still didn't answer my questions. I'd say I'm far more open minded and critically thinking. You take what you think is truth and bend scripture to fit it. I take what is truth and challenge it with the truth in scripture. If something I hold dear does not hold up to scripture, than it is eliminated from what I believe to be true. So again, answer the questions from before. How does the bible say the trinity is false. Where's reincarnation? How are you right? JUST from the Bible alone how are you right?

The bible exists and talks about jesus destroying death and destroying satan in genesis

Genesis 3:15
"I will put emnity between you and the woman, Between your seed and her seed, He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise his heel."


So this is the first messianic prophecy spoken by GOD himself, To man, Not through man.

So if something that has come to pass and is true? makes the word of God true? because The word is truth, For he is the word, and the word was with him, So how can God lie?

I fall in love with jesus more, And his word just keeps revealing hidden truths and knowledge the more we humble ourself to the holy spirit, He overwhelms us with incomprehenceable glory.

Everything in the bible is Historical Truth, Geological Truth, Spiritual Truth, Biological Truth, Scientific Truth.

There is nothing we cant find that GOD didnt know or created. So kudos man, Kudos to you for being so much smarter than God, Give your self a big pat on the back.