My first issues with the Bible.

reply to post by Wademus


Obviously you really don't understand just how rare fossilization is. I guess I'm finished for the night. I need some sleep.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

It was a hypothetical. Just look at how many times animals reproduce today and the incidence of mutation in their genes. It does not take a lot of imagination to see what would happen after hundreds of millions of those repetitions and more.

And after a handful of 'mutated' generations the offspring are unfit to survive in darwins "survival of the fittest" world. "mutated" offspring are coerced into breeding and can only exist in those forms because humans allow them. It does not happen in nature, so why do so many people sell out to thinkin it did?

Originally posted by Wademus



Now will an evolution believer explain why there are no transition species, no half africanis half erectus fossils if it was so many millions of years? If it were true, the transitional fossils would greatly outnumber the 'distinct species' who just happen to look alike.

also dont forget that even ice core samples have shown there was waaaay more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past which would have made the planet as a whole more inhabitable. Also read a few books on planetary studies and you will see that over time as a planets core cools it tends to lose its atmosphere due to a weakened magnetic field and thus bombardment by solar radiation. After all, where did all that water in the sahara and my home state of kansas go?

your chart left out Homo Habilis, which is the "half way man". they simply classified Homo Habilis and Homo rudoplhensis as "early homo varieties". there is also homo ergaster which is very man like in appearance. all these hominins date between 2.5- 1.4 million years ago. jus wanted to point out your chart left a few out that are quite relevant.

Why does evolution contradict belief in god and christ?

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

Obviously you really don't understand just how rare fossilization is. I guess I'm finished for the night. I need some sleep.

you're not reading my posts, fossilization is near impossible. I fully understand it. We cannot replicate it. There is not enough pressure available anywhere on earth for the process to take place without it simply being incinerated.

1 type of global event gave us all the fossils we will ever have on earth. You cannot bury something in any kind of rock or deposit without it merely decomposing into nothing.

I wouldnt suggest believing in any religion that says that most of the worlds people will burn in hell for simply believing in the another faith. Most people are raised in their faith and believe it with the entirety of their heart. This goes for all religions and not just christianity.
Although I do believe a lot of the moral teachings in the christian bible are great, I do not believe that everything in the bible is the word of god, as it claims to be. I do not wish to offend any christians. I was once a christian and still hold many of the beliefs close to my heart. However, christians need to be much more open-minded about questions asked of the bible and the possibilities that lie within the text. I think the ancient astronaut theory has a very strong argument given much of the text. To not consider it an option would portray a certain amount of close-mindedness, as it would also be to not consider any possibility. The "truth" is that we do not truly know what the truth is. Even on the non-believer side there should not be such disdain for believers, simply for the fact that we do not truly know what the truth is. The bible could be 100% truth and we will never know until we die. Therefore, the speculation in threads like is needed. Anything is possible and all options for the "truth" should be talked about patiently and politely, and everyone should be entitled to believe what they want to believe without the threat of eternal torture, or public humiliation and degradation.
I agree with OP. Please try to just discuss things in a civil manner. On both sides.

Originally posted by Wademus

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

Obviously you really don't understand just how rare fossilization is. I guess I'm finished for the night. I need some sleep.

you're not reading my posts, fossilization is near impossible. I fully understand it. We cannot replicate it. There is not enough pressure available anywhere on earth for the process to take place without it simply being incinerated.

1 type of global event gave us all the fossils we will ever have on earth. You cannot bury something in any kind of rock or deposit without it merely decomposing into nothing.

you obviously dont understand stratigraphy or the law of superposition.

Originally posted by Wademus

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

Imagine having 10 million drops of water that changed chemical content constantly. Now imagine if you could only preserve 5 drops out of those 10 million. Will you see the transitions from chemical to chemical? Now do this 10 million more times. You will have only 25 drops after 50 million changes, 50 drops after 100 million changes. That's like trying to see a comic on the newspaper by choosing 3 tiny dots. You won't see the whole picture, but you'll know that the picture is there.

Good attempt but still a very poor example. How do you know there were 10 million drops of water in the first place? You only have that scenario in a lab with 10 million being a selected constant variable. Perhaps there were only the 5 in the first place. on top of that the pool of compounds is limited so there is not room for an exponential growth or change in the drops differences. Moreover this all still relies on the flawed dating system putting everything at millions and billions of years when in fact that has been proven to not be the case. But rather it is what is just accepted.

Remember Edison was convinced direct current was the answer, and the earth used to be flat, but what do we have today

Guaranteed that the fusion of our chemical makeup from the universe would equate to variables more in the millions than it would only 5.

Originally posted by ChaosComplex

Is anyone doing anything along the lines of compiling similarities between holy texts? Something like showing what is similar between Sumerian, Hopi, Christianity, Hindu, etc...?

I'm doing so at the moment. well, trying to lol along with trying to find appropriate sources for such topics.

Oh, and in regards to your saying you preferred reading a Bible as close to the language as possible, this may be of some interest to you - seems it was (technically) the first fully published Bible in English. You said you were comfortable/had exp. with language like this, so it might be enjoyable:

www.amazon.com...=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Product Description:

Pastor John Rogers assembled in 1537 a volume that contained, for the first time as part of a complete Bible, all of William Tyndale's translation work, the 1534 New Testament, the Pentateuch, and the nine historical books, ending with 2 Chronicles. Where there were gaps in Tyndale's work, Rogers used that of Miles Coverdale (1535).

Archbishop Thomas Cranmer saw to it that the Matthew's Bible was shown to King Henry VIII, who then licensed the complete Bible in English. Thomas Cromwell, Henry's Viceregent for church affairs, subsequently encouraged bishops to order copies of the Matthew's Bible for their churches. Such official sanction sparked tremendous demand for the book.

* Facsimile of an excellent copy of the 1537 Matthew's Bible
* Features clear, legible type throughout (marginal commentary is in smaller type)
* Authoritative new preface
* Great for Bible collectors and anyone interested in the history of the English Bible

reply to post by Wademus


actually, no. EM works on plasma differently than you or I. And gravity works on you or I differently than space time, even though one may be able to argue space time is just less compressed light. But that's probably bonkers.


Tesla did not even have computers His work was pure check and guess with some knowledge of waves. Which by the way has no relationship to the quantum scale universe, of which in addition to he rejected.

Tesla claimed a lot in his old age. As did many. He was probably senile, or just convinced. Einstein was too. In fact Einstein and Tesla were pretty much the same in intelligence. One worked with space and time, the other worked with matter propagation and wave theory.

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Originally posted by Wademus



Now will an evolution believer explain why there are no transition species, no half africanis half erectus fossils if it was so many millions of years? If it were true, the transitional fossils would greatly outnumber the 'distinct species' who just happen to look alike.

also dont forget that even ice core samples have shown there was waaaay more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past which would have made the planet as a whole more inhabitable. Also read a few books on planetary studies and you will see that over time as a planets core cools it tends to lose its atmosphere due to a weakened magnetic field and thus bombardment by solar radiation. After all, where did all that water in the sahara and my home state of kansas go?

your chart left out Homo Habilis, which is the "half way man". they simply classified Homo Habilis and Homo rudoplhensis as "early homo varieties". there is also homo ergaster which is very man like in appearance. all these hominins date between 2.5- 1.4 million years ago. jus wanted to point out your chart left a few out that are quite relevant.

Why does evolution contradict belief in god and christ?

Good points! I just google imaged for the clearest chart I could find quickly to keep things going. However tossing in 2 skeletons does nothing to improve the situation.

Evolution does not necessarily contradict God, obviously it is arrogant of people to try and limit God. However looking at all the facts and evidence it does not appear to have any solid basis. Again I see you toss out 'millions' of years, using a dating system that is fundamentally flawed. What Im saying is that when I lay all this out in front of me there is more and better evidence supporting a single or a few small creations of all life that existed on earth and a subsequent single mass extinction via 'earth event' as proposed by the RATES study. Whether you want to say Noah or Asteroid or whatever is up to you. But clearly it involved water and massive amounts of sediment breakdown and deposit worldwide.

Again much of this information is really new so itll be a few before it really gets widespread. We are a stubborn species when it comes to change. Ill go back to Tesla analogies cuz theres just so many of em, Tesla demoed a remote control boat to the public over 100 years ago. but the technology and idea was just a novelty. My how things have changed

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Not really. I see no reason why two people coming up with the same idea means they are linked. Or if they are, that Hindus did it first. Did not the people of the Mississippi river valley build pyramids?

Jesus taught quite clearly this life is your only one, as did pretty much all of the Bible. In fact, even with people who are supposedly to return one day, they did not die. They were taken up to later return as themselves, not in another's body. Again, reincarnation is bonk. I myself started having dreams of many different life time and characters. Eventually I was able to train my mind to take over these dreams and do whatever I want. Imagination.

I honestly don't care for discussions. All I need is the Bible. There is no mother and father. Just God who has both traits. Now maybe you are arguing that, but you certainly seem to be going against the very words of the book you use as proof.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Not from a super nova. The universe is too young. The sun was born from clouds from space itself. No supernova. These materials you listed are everywhere. But in the sun they are plasma and more or less NOT the same stuff in us. In as much as you are not Ice, but both are water.

reply to post by ButterCookie


No. Out of understanding. One is greater than I.

Bowing down to a greater force is not out of fear. It is out of knowledge it is better than you and will lead you better.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Wademus

 

actually, no. EM works on plasma differently than you or I. And gravity works on you or I differently than space time, even though one may be able to argue space time is just less compressed light. But that's probably bonkers.


Tesla did not even have computers His work was pure check and guess with some knowledge of waves. Which by the way has no relationship to the quantum scale universe, of which in addition to he rejected.

Tesla claimed a lot in his old age. As did many. He was probably senile, or just convinced. Einstein was too. In fact Einstein and Tesla were pretty much the same in intelligence. One worked with space and time, the other worked with matter propagation and wave theory.

I think you missed my point. Point being all matter is governed by the same laws of physics. Acted upon by gravity, and held together by electromagnetism. And if you want to get real deep 'frequencies', which are nothing more than vibrations. "string" theory.

No electro magnetism really works the same in plasma as it does you and i. It is simply that plasma is of a different charge from what you might call 'normal' electromagnetism. Even then on the atomic scale these particles can all be affected by mere mechanical vibratrations (sound). The "VASMR" rocket uses ultrasound to exceite and direct plasma as a means of propulsion, hospitals loan out ultrasound machines to encourage bone growth. How else would this be possible if on the most basic level all things were not bound or susceptible to 'vibrations'

reply to post by Sense9000
Technically, there isn't a 'both sides' though right, as far as believers and non-believers go on this thread. Or there shouldn't be? After all, the main idea of the opening post on this thread was for critical thinking about the Bible where questions arose so that a better understanding could be gained. That makes random posts about 'God not existing' or 'I'm a non-believer and people shouldn't believe in this' or anecdotes about exp's endured while in the presence of religious fanatics irrelevant, right? [unless asked for, of course]

Not that they don't contribute to something, it just doesn't seem to be a contribution to this thread in particular lol Technically, by the end of a person's post, we shouldn't know if they're a believer or disbeliever at all (which I know I'm guilty of mentioning, too). That'd probably be the best way to keep it as civil as possible. The rules being: keep one's ego, one's pride, and any close-minded ideals to oneself, I guess.

The OP is upholding his original intention and didn't set out to start problems on here so these erroneous posts about... erroneous ideas, could be put in other threads where they're better-welcomed. But this isn't a bite at what's being said as much as where it's being said - so it's not a show of caring/objecting/arguing about or with what any person with an aversion to religion, the Bible, etc has said. I just really liked this thread because there are a few here that provide amazing insight that's actually been really helpful for me too as I now read-thru the Bible. But then, there are those that provide nothing at all (to this specific topic, not in general), which is a bit of a pain to try to sort thru since there are so many of them

I commend those that haven't lost their tempers, remaining civil and open-minded about the topic at hand. I also thank those that have given so many different perspectives thru which a person can look at different parts of scripture. Some of them I'd never have considered on my own.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Not from a super nova. The universe is too young. The sun was born from clouds from space itself. No supernova. These materials you listed are everywhere. But in the sun they are plasma and more or less NOT the same stuff in us. In as much as you are not Ice, but both are water.

???

If this 'stuff' is everywhere, then are you suggesting humans were created out of elements that are not in the universe?????

Originally posted by Wademus

Originally posted by WJjeeper

Originally posted by Wademus



Now will an evolution believer explain why there are no transition species, no half africanis half erectus fossils if it was so many millions of years? If it were true, the transitional fossils would greatly outnumber the 'distinct species' who just happen to look alike.

also dont forget that even ice core samples have shown there was waaaay more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past which would have made the planet as a whole more inhabitable. Also read a few books on planetary studies and you will see that over time as a planets core cools it tends to lose its atmosphere due to a weakened magnetic field and thus bombardment by solar radiation. After all, where did all that water in the sahara and my home state of kansas go?

your chart left out Homo Habilis, which is the "half way man". they simply classified Homo Habilis and Homo rudoplhensis as "early homo varieties". there is also homo ergaster which is very man like in appearance. all these hominins date between 2.5- 1.4 million years ago. jus wanted to point out your chart left a few out that are quite relevant.

Why does evolution contradict belief in god and christ?

Good points! I just google imaged for the clearest chart I could find quickly to keep things going. However tossing in 2 skeletons does nothing to improve the situation.

Evolution does not necessarily contradict God, obviously it is arrogant of people to try and limit God. However looking at all the facts and evidence it does not appear to have any solid basis. Again I see you toss out 'millions' of years, using a dating system that is fundamentally flawed. What Im saying is that when I lay all this out in front of me there is more and better evidence supporting a single or a few small creations of all life that existed on earth and a subsequent single mass extinction via 'earth event' as proposed by the RATES study. Whether you want to say Noah or Asteroid or whatever is up to you. But clearly it involved water and massive amounts of sediment breakdown and deposit worldwide.

Again much of this information is really new so itll be a few before it really gets widespread. We are a stubborn species when it comes to change. Ill go back to Tesla analogies cuz theres just so many of em, Tesla demoed a remote control boat to the public over 100 years ago. but the technology and idea was just a novelty. My how things have changed

edit on 22-3-2011 by Wademus because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-3-2011 by Wademus because: (no reason given)

i was a skeptic of radio-carbon dating as well until i really started studying it. think of it this way, we are all carbon based forms, correct? Carbon of all different sorts are radioactive isotopes and have half-lifes. we can measure how far an isotope is through its half life, thus we are able to tell how old it is. its quite simple, its not even flawed. thre is also potassium argon dating- K-Ar dating can measure back the furthest as it has a half-life of 1.3 billion years, thus we can date back 4.5 billion years using this technique.there is also thermoluminescent dating, electron spin resonance, etc. there are more ways to date than radiocarbon dating.

on to the subject of a mass die-off, we have the law of superposition, which states that each layer of soil is younger than the layer beneath it. its common sense, if there is a fossil with 3 ft of soil over it and another fossil 6 ft beneath the soil what one died first? how long does it take for the fossil to be covered with new strata?

just because evolution is true, does not make creationism wrong. if god is everything, then we came from everything... as he created mankind in his image.

reply to post by Gorman91

Jesus taught quite clearly this life is your only one

Show me where Jesus taught this! Find one statement that concludes this is his teaching.

www.torah.org...#

this one goes into the Sefirot www.donmeh-west.com...

Evolutiom only goes so far....our eyes,nails,skin,limbs and hair are traits of evolution;we see those traits all thru out the animal worls, constantly being repeated, but our brains(1000cc in size) has NOTHING to do with evolution. NOTHING. we have dicovered every link leading to the modern man except the most important ,,the most recent links...why,, cause it doesnt exist. finding the most recent link should be easier than finding the third link or tenth.. my point is if modern man is a product of evolution 100% , there should be other forms of intelligent life (on our level)on earth. since our intelligence is primitive when contemplating the origens of man ; one could only accept the very possibility that somethig unexplainable interfered with life on earth. whether you all want to call it GOD,GODS OR ALIENS is up to the individuals perception.

I get the idea, that the masses need religion and so do the power brokers, big money and lots of control, after all with out some type of God who could they all run to when they make there mistakes or who could they marvel at when its going their way, a great concept I figure Coke would have loved to have the patient on the product I defiantly would.

I do not buy into the Darwin ideas, we are not from monkeys, however I get the idea that all of the animals are our cousins, and related in some fashion, yes clearly we have evolved for an earlier human, wither it be in size or greater understanding intelligence. It would be wonderful to see the many frauds dispelled once and for all. Those that buy into such things truly need to seek professional help, but never will. Unfortunately any collective can convince themselves that they are doing the right things when often they are not. To many frauds and clearly not enough action. I do not see animals getting together to pray to some dainty, they just live and survive however hard that has become for them considering that humans are such a parasitic creature hell bent on destruction and control, often based on some religious belief or need. Shame on us all.