My first issues with the Bible.

Perhaps its time to think all the Gods, God out of existence and think for our selves, at least then we all might be accountable, I get the idea about the whole God thing is that God is on the side of the biggest army. Don't get me wrong the holly books are quiet good books and have some decent ideas, but so were some of Steven kings books, a good book is a good book.

This whole post idea was nothing but to garner stars and flags from those who hate the bible. Good job.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

Honestly, if you'd done research on evolution, you would understand the various levels of strata and how fossils literally couldn't have gotten to where they were in a period afterward. Also, fossilization is a very VERY rare process, happening sometimes only a few times over a million years, and that's a lot of time! Since under the current theory, evolutionary traits change every 90,000 generations or so (might be a different number, heard it in biological anthropology class), that means that depending on the creature, you have literally thousands of traits changing every million years, multiply that into the number of billion years that life has existed on Earth and you get a decent idea of how things may have changed into what they are today.

You won't find every transitional species also because many times the branching species lived alongside the species that it originated from for a long time, or all of the one died.

Many human ancestors are known about because creatures killed us and our bones fell into an area far more prone to fossilization. This is not even related to religion. It is simply a scientific observation of how the rocks could have formed from organic matter, and we use many methods of the breakdown of radioactive isotopes in order to determine a general age at which something might be.

Religion can say what it wants, but evolution is certainly real.

You must not know much about fossilization. or the dating system. serious man, i was there once. its all bogus. and more on that, explain soft tissue in tyrannosaur bones "65million" years later with identifiable proteins, answer = its not 65 million years old

reply to post by Gorman91

That's nice, but I don't care about India. I care about my own religion. And it says in plain simple words, God created man in his image, and then he created THEM male and female. Humanity is in and of itself male and female.

Yes, and where did I disagree with you on that? How many times did I post about that? You are griping about the fact that theres a Hindu Trinity using different names. I am sorry, but you are so so so narrow about this. Then you are griping about my prior postings on an entirely different thread about reincarnation, which btw was teaching of Origen which was anathematized by the ecumenical council of Nicea, like many here have noted, the early Church fathers wanted to ignore. I was arguing that the concept of the Trinity is not the meaning of Elohim, and argued for the concept of the Father/Mother God. I did not even bring reincarnation into this discussion but you are griping about previous discussions because the reincarnation thing disrupts your boxed in thinking. The concept of the Trinity was articulated by Tertullian, and is not of itself associated with the meaning of Elohim, however I did find some blogs which discussed this argument of Trinitarians, so it seems that that is what the bugaboo seems to be with you. I would look to the basic understanding of the Hebrew www.israelofgod.org...

here is a discussion of Elohim and Trinity servetustheevangelical.com...

and heres another good discussion godandson.reslight.net...

and here www.mindspring.com...

Originally posted by CLINTPOST
reply to post by ChaosComplex
[mo

Someone may have already stated this, but when it is talking about kinds it is referring to horses only have children that are horses. Humans only have humans for children. They don't give birth to apes, etc... A good site that helped me with understanding creation science is www.icr.org, it really proved to me the Bible is true and that evolution, macro evolution, does not happen in life/nature and is a man made concept. It's a lie. It also helps that I know some of the scientists personally that worked for ICR, Dr. John Baumgardner and Steve Austin.

Not to sound condescending, but no person in their right mind would believe that any creature spontaneously gives birth to a new species. These changes were EXTREMELY gradual. It took humans around 20 million years or so to become what we are from the common ancestor we share with chimps and bonobos. Chimps share many attributes with us, including tool usage. Bonobos share our social tendencies. We share similar skeletal structures with WHALES for crying out loud. Why would God create all of these similarities that can be explained by super gradual change? To trick us, or to make us question our faith and see who stays steadfast?

reply to post by Akragon


I disagree. I think the entire thing is important. New Testament. Old Testament. Big Bang Theory. Evolution.

Read it all. Decide for yourself. And for the love of (whatever you believe) don't bash other people's beliefs.

I think there's truth in all of it. But, there's also a lot of influence, too.

Decide for yourself what you should weed out and what to take to heart and live by.

reply to post by Wademus


Have you ever seen a fossil in the process of being removed from the rock it was embedded in? It is an intensive process, separating the primary rock from the fossil, sometimes taking upwards of 20 years to complete! You're basically saying that it's all fake and that the religion has it right because some humans wrote it down a few thousand years ago...

Originally posted by Varemia

Originally posted by CLINTPOST
reply to post by ChaosComplex
[mo

Someone may have already stated this, but when it is talking about kinds it is referring to horses only have children that are horses. Humans only have humans for children. They don't give birth to apes, etc... A good site that helped me with understanding creation science is www.icr.org, it really proved to me the Bible is true and that evolution, macro evolution, does not happen in life/nature and is a man made concept. It's a lie. It also helps that I know some of the scientists personally that worked for ICR, Dr. John Baumgardner and Steve Austin.

Not to sound condescending, but no person in their right mind would believe that any creature spontaneously gives birth to a new species. These changes were EXTREMELY gradual. It took humans around 20 million years or so to become what we are from the common ancestor we share with chimps and bonobos. Chimps share many attributes with us, including tool usage. Bonobos share our social tendencies. We share similar skeletal structures with WHALES for crying out loud. Why would God create all of these similarities that can be explained by super gradual change? To trick us, or to make us question our faith and see who stays steadfast?

So gradual over such vast amounts of time that somehow we cannot find any transitional species? Only separate clearly identifiable species? The answer is all possible forms of life existed, but as the planet changes and resources deplete only some are well adapted to survive.

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by Akragon

 

I disagree. I think the entire thing is important. New Testament. Old Testament. Big Bang Theory. Evolution.

Read it all. Decide for yourself. And for the love of (whatever you believe) don't bash other people's beliefs.

I think there's truth in all of it. But, there's also a lot of influence, too.

Decide for yourself what you should weed out and what to take to heart and live by.

You're welcome to your opinion, and im welcome to mine... There is great knowledge all throughout the bible this i won't deny...Still i would have rather just learned Christs teachings, it makes the rest much less complicated

And when did i bash someone elses belief?

reply to post by marsend


There lies the problem, if the Bible is true and is the Creator's words written down as a historlcal fact, then the whole reason for the world today being so crappy is man's desire to be god. I believe you have it all wrong, God is relational and wants a relationship with all mankind. That is why he sent his only begotten son to make that relationship true for us. He died for to fix the curse and to cover our sins.

reply to post by Wademus


Imagine having 10 million drops of water that changed chemical content constantly. Now imagine if you could only preserve 5 drops out of those 10 million. Will you see the transitions from chemical to chemical? Now do this 10 million more times. You will have only 25 drops after 50 million changes, 50 drops after 100 million changes. That's like trying to see a comic on the newspaper by choosing 3 tiny dots. You won't see the whole picture, but you'll know that the picture is there.

Now will an evolution believer explain why there are no transition species, no half africanis half erectus fossils if it was so many millions of years? If it were true, the transitional fossils would greatly outnumber the 'distinct species' who just happen to look alike.

also dont forget that even ice core samples have shown there was waaaay more oxygen in the atmosphere in the past which would have made the planet as a whole more inhabitable. Also read a few books on planetary studies and you will see that over time as a planets core cools it tends to lose its atmosphere due to a weakened magnetic field and thus bombardment by solar radiation. After all, where did all that water in the sahara and my home state of kansas go?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Actually we are not. Stars are made of hydrogen and helium you see. And we are neither plasma nor nuclear fusion.

What's so special about stars? They're not the coolest things out there. marveling at the fire is lazy and useless. Turn the fire into an engine and make things, now there's something cool.

Besides, you are adding your own terms to it. In fact, the bible states much later that stars and people are made of different things.

From a supernova, We...HUMANS contain

Carbon
Nitrogen
Oxygen
helium
Sodium
Plasma
etc....

the same as the stars

reply to post by Varemia


Why can't one consider that God, being Creator of all things, could use the similar features in his designs of life? We do the same thing with cars, they may all look slightly different, but they are still cars. Might be a weak example, but God does want us to reason with him, not just to believe blindly. Pray about it, ask in Christ name that he reveal truth to you and believe that he will if he's there.

reply to post by Wademus


That's because the "distinct" species are not distinct at all. We do see only some changes in certain fossils while others have greater changes.

There is no jump from one identified species to another. It is a gradual change in which every successive species cannot even technically be defined as a species because we cannot know whether the two could reproduce with viable offspring (the definition of a species).

I already told you the reason why you don't see many transitional species. Fossilization does not happen to everybody. Go ahead, try to find a way to fossilize yourself easily in nature. It's not easy.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

I do. I still believe in God. I'm a solidarity nut a lot of the time.

Sorry, you're wrong. The only reason I am with God is because there is no one else as good and loyal as he. I couldn't give a damn if he loved me or not or was with me or not. I love him because of who he is.

Sounds like you chose so out of fear.....

bullied....

At least study each and then chose between the gods

Originally posted by CLINTPOST
reply to post by Varemia

 

Why can't one consider that God, being Creator of all things, could use the similar features in his designs of life? We do the same thing with cars, they may all look slightly different, but they are still cars. Might be a weak example, but God does want us to reason with him, not just to believe blindly. Pray about it, ask in Christ name that he reveal truth to you and believe that he will if he's there.

Why couldn't God have created things TO evolve as they did, and that creation simply took far longer than 7 days? The days could be a symbolic representation of the various periods of creation throughout time which God was able to perceive without the hampering of human perception. Then, when humans developed enough of a sentience to understand, God began relaying his message to them?

There are many ways to look at this, and often times it does not require the ignoring of evidence. It just takes a little bit of thought.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

Imagine having 10 million drops of water that changed chemical content constantly. Now imagine if you could only preserve 5 drops out of those 10 million. Will you see the transitions from chemical to chemical? Now do this 10 million more times. You will have only 25 drops after 50 million changes, 50 drops after 100 million changes. That's like trying to see a comic on the newspaper by choosing 3 tiny dots. You won't see the whole picture, but you'll know that the picture is there.

Good attempt but still a very poor example. How do you know there were 10 million drops of water in the first place? You only have that scenario in a lab with 10 million being a selected constant variable. Perhaps there were only the 5 in the first place. on top of that the pool of compounds is limited so there is not room for an exponential growth or change in the drops differences. Moreover this all still relies on the flawed dating system putting everything at millions and billions of years when in fact that has been proven to not be the case. But rather it is what is just accepted.

Remember Edison was convinced direct current was the answer, and the earth used to be flat, but what do we have today

reply to post by Wademus


It was a hypothetical. Just look at how many times animals reproduce today and the incidence of mutation in their genes. It does not take a lot of imagination to see what would happen after hundreds of millions of those repetitions and more.

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by Wademus

 

That's because the "distinct" species are not distinct at all. We do see only some changes in certain fossils while others have greater changes.

There is no jump from one identified species to another. It is a gradual change in which every successive species cannot even technically be defined as a species because we cannot know whether the two could reproduce with viable offspring (the definition of a species).

I already told you the reason why you don't see many transitional species. Fossilization does not happen to everybody. Go ahead, try to find a way to fossilize yourself easily in nature. It's not easy.

You';re are ignoring the math. If so many countless 'transition species' existed then many more of them would be fossilized as per the odds. Not just the distinct different species on the ladder. You cannot fossilize something by burying it. And the only way to achieve the pressure necessary is to go deeper than even our oceans are today.